4 ms·

Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? Software is about choice and productivity. It's great that we have choices and I embrace a variety of them throughout my p

by theg2 13y ago

Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? Software is about choice and productivity. It's great that we have choices and I embrace a variety of them throughout my personal and professional life, but this "us against them" philosophy belongs in a boardroom and not in the hands of users and creatives. We can say Ubuntu has come a long way (and it has) and that it's done a lot for gaining mind share (bingo), but a huge turn off for me in OSS is this "us against THE MAN" philosophy, why can't software just be software, a means of expression that you gives you choice?

davexunit 13y ago
Because software freedom is important?
thiderman 13y ago
>Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? No, we're not. That's pretty much the point of the comment and the closing of the bug.
Toshio 13y ago
> Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? I'm disenchanted with your double quotes. This war is real and it will remain so as long as motherboards of generic PCs/laptops come preinfected with microsoft's signing key (which is even more evil than DRM).
paddyoloughlin 13y ago
The topic is that the bug has been closed. Surely it is not fair to interpret that as a divisive action.
pavs 13y ago
Either you haven't read mark's comment entirely or you have serious reading comprehension issues.
shrikant 13y ago
Maybe it's an age thing, but I remember a time I could walk into most major computer stores and have literally no choice but to buy a PC loaded with Windows. The market had been distorted, and this prevented software being about choice and productivity, and instead about who had the larger marketing muscle. To some extent this is still the case in some major retailers today, but they at least recognise that they're not offering choices. Their brush-off of Mac OS and Linux may be flawed (or not), but that the existence of alternate OSes is even acknowledged is quite a marked change from about a decade back.
davidism 13y ago
His statement addresses your complaint. > There is a social element to this bug report as well, of course. It served for many as a sort of declaration of intent. But it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product. So you're right, and he agrees, Ubuntu should be focused on being the best it can, rather than trying to "fight" the competition.
tekacs 13y ago
> Software is about choice and productivity. I'm pretty sure software is 'about' whatever the hell one wants it to be. > It's great that we have choices and I embrace a variety of them throughout my personal and professional life, but this "us against them" philosophy belongs in a boardroom and not in the hands of users and creatives. That's rather prescriptive, don't you think? If users wish to make this particular choice - by 'telling them off' for behaving in such a manner, in what sense are you being any less pushy and 'us vs. them' than are they? You may have a personal distaste for their approach, but indeed their personal distaste for someone else's approach to software is what drives many[1] to stand behind this in the first place! [1]: Of course there are always some who just want a fight - any fight. They're even less likely to change 'just because they're told to'. :P
rbanffy 13y ago
> Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? Microsoft is certainly shooting. Less effectively than ever, true, but they don't seem like they'll surrender anytime soon. So, no. We are still at war. We didn't choose to be, but, as long as they attack us and our freedom, we'll fight them. Every patent extortion attempt, every standard body manipulation, every "Secure Boot" that prevents users from booting anything not signed in Redmond is an act against user freedom and user freedom is the point of Free Software. Ubuntu decided to focus on quality and this is good. But don't think that, because Ubuntu's bug #1 is closed, because the desktop is becoming irrelevant fast and Ubuntu has other goals, that we are all friends.

by theg2 13y ago

davexunit 13y ago

Because software freedom is important?

thiderman 13y ago

>Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? No, we're not. That's pretty much the point of the comment and the closing of the bug.

Toshio 13y ago

> Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? I'm disenchanted with your double quotes. This war is real and it will remain so as long as motherboards of generic PCs/laptops come preinfected with microsoft's signing key (which is even more evil than DRM).

paddyoloughlin 13y ago

The topic is that the bug has been closed. Surely it is not fair to interpret that as a divisive action.

pavs 13y ago

Either you haven't read mark's comment entirely or you have serious reading comprehension issues.

shrikant 13y ago

Maybe it's an age thing, but I remember a time I could walk into most major computer stores and have literally no choice but to buy a PC loaded with Windows. The market had been distorted, and this prevented software being about choice and productivity, and instead about who had the larger marketing muscle. To some extent this is still the case in some major retailers today, but they at least recognise that they're not offering choices. Their brush-off of Mac OS and Linux may be flawed (or not), but that the existence of alternate OSes is even acknowledged is quite a marked change from about a decade back.

davidism 13y ago

His statement addresses your complaint. > There is a social element to this bug report as well, of course. It served for many as a sort of declaration of intent. But it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product. So you're right, and he agrees, Ubuntu should be focused on being the best it can, rather than trying to "fight" the competition.

tekacs 13y ago

> Software is about choice and productivity. I'm pretty sure software is 'about' whatever the hell one wants it to be. > It's great that we have choices and I embrace a variety of them throughout my personal and professional life, but this "us against them" philosophy belongs in a boardroom and not in the hands of users and creatives. That's rather prescriptive, don't you think? If users wish to make this particular choice - by 'telling them off' for behaving in such a manner, in what sense are you being any less pushy and 'us vs. them' than are they? You may have a personal distaste for their approach, but indeed their personal distaste for someone else's approach to software is what drives many[1] to stand behind this in the first place! [1]: Of course there are always some who just want a fight - any fight. They're even less likely to change 'just because they're told to'. :P

rbanffy 13y ago

> Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? Microsoft is certainly shooting. Less effectively than ever, true, but they don't seem like they'll surrender anytime soon. So, no. We are still at war. We didn't choose to be, but, as long as they attack us and our freedom, we'll fight them. Every patent extortion attempt, every standard body manipulation, every "Secure Boot" that prevents users from booting anything not signed in Redmond is an act against user freedom and user freedom is the point of Free Software. Ubuntu decided to focus on quality and this is good. But don't think that, because Ubuntu's bug #1 is closed, because the desktop is becoming irrelevant fast and Ubuntu has other goals, that we are all friends.