15 ms·

Ubuntu's Bug #1 is fixed

690 points by daker 13y ago

qwerta 13y ago
Microsoft just become irrelevant :-)
- pmelendez 13y ago
  I don't think irrelevant is appropriate. Microsoft has very talented people on board and it keeps introducing novel products (Kinect, WP8,etc) You might like them or not but one has to give credit to try new approaches. They are not the unstoppable force that they were before but I think that calling them irrelevant is a bit too much.
  - sp332 13y ago
    I have a WP8 phone and love it, but even I can admit that with ~1% marketshare, WP8 is irrelevant. Most people don't own a console, so having a slice of that market doesn't really help either. Having talented people doesn't automatically make people care about your products.
    - Zigurd 13y ago
      I don't think it's the 1% market share that's their biggest problem. The problem is that Microsoft isn't competitive as an ecosystem. Bing search, Hotmail, whatever Microsoft has for music or maps etc. are not what people are using. Yahoo is doing more to attract and retain ecosystem users. Or look at it this way: It's not about selling a phone OS. It's about the ecosystem behind the devices.
      - assemble 13y ago
        There are a lot more who use their ecosystem than you think. All of their services work very well together, the Music and Video services have anything I could ever want (seriously, more current TV shows than anywhere else I've seen), the email calendar and other things work together, Skydrive is incredibly useful. If you don't think Microsoft's ecosystem is competitive, it tells me you haven't tried it.
        sp332 13y ago
        I didn't even know MS had a video service. A little Googling and I got to "Xbox Video". I thought that was only available via the Windows 8 app (or Xbox) but it looks like any Silverlight-capable browser will work. e.g. http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/TVShow/The-Guild/Season/0/c1e74f93-c25c-4a24-b2c9-8b83201ae4f9 http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/TVShow/The-Guild/Season/0/...
      - sp332 13y ago
        The integration with specific sevices is impressive. On one screen, I can see all my Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn connections' updates. On another I can see all notifications across all connected services. The lock screen can show how many emails I have waiting in each account, Twitter messages, Facebook messages, texts, missed calls, and voicemails at the same time. The rest of the "ecosystem" would be a lot more liveable if they only had a decent web browser! The browser on this thing is terrible. It doesn't even have a basic password manager, which is really painful on a touchscreen keyboard.
    - GFischer 13y ago
      Windows Phone is great... until you run afoul of stupid restrictions. You probably will never come across them, but one of my cousins got a Lumia, and made the mistake of not lying when registering the phone. She ran afoul of two things: 1) Marketplace simply does not work if you're a minor 2) Almost nothing works if you set your place of residence to Uruguay. So I had to create a false account for her, and reset her phone twice, before she had a passable user experience. It might "work" if you live in the U.S., but I absolutely do not recommend it for small third world countries, and will only recommend Android here. Btw, I'd add a third caveat: 3) Most software doesn't have "free" alternatives like on Android (absolutely deal-breaking if you don't have access to a credit card, which most Uruguayans don't) It's sad, because the hardware beats the crap out of Samsung phones, the UX is better, and I love the Camera button. Too bad Nokia chose Windows, I loved my Nokia phones (still use one, an N86).
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  I would be very happy to be a tenth as irrelevant.
  - TillE 13y ago
    We're talking about Microsoft, the giant of the computing industry for 15-20 years. Their overall influence is a tiny fraction of what it was. Apple and Google are the major players now. Microsoft is an also-ran.
    - cmircea 13y ago
      They still have a lot of influence in business computing - from PCs to servers. Don't be so quick to dismiss Microsoft.
      - Zigurd 13y ago
        5 years from now most of the currently installed PCs will be gone, and many of them will be replaced by tablets. Will those tablets be running iOS, Android, or Windows?
        freehunter 13y ago
        Again, enterprise. Business. Not consumer. It doesn't matter if the tablets are running iOS, Android, or Windows. What does and will matter is, which can run Excel, which can run Word, and which can run Eclipse or Visual Studio? Because, besides IE6 apps that will continue to slowly fade, that's what businesses actually care about.
        Zigurd 13y ago
        > What does and will matter is, which can run Excel, which can run Word That's an open question. I would ask instead which ecosystem - Google, Bing/Hotmail/SkyDrive/Azure, Apple, Yahoo, etc. the customer uses as their "home" ecosystem.
        13y ago
tlarkworthy 13y ago
Bug #1 "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it – an advantage that’s keenly felt by individuals and organisations all over the world." * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. ... etc ... A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd
- reedlaw 13y ago
  What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. This bug is still far from fixed by this measure. There seem to be only a tiny handful of PCs that only include free software.[1][2] Only a single laptop includes a free BIOS! 1. http://www.gnewsense.org/Main/LaptopGuide http://www.gnewsense.org/Main/LaptopGuide 2. http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Freest http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Freest
  - raylu 13y ago
    My real beef is how readily Ubuntu installs proprietary software (like binary drivers) while having this "bug" in its tracker. Yes, yes, if you want to get anything done now, you need those drivers. And a lot of users wouldn't use Linux at all if they couldn't get what they wanted now. But the long-term implications of giving into hardware manufacturers is you will never get an open driver. Ubuntu does not care about free software at all (whether or not for good reason) and it annoys me that they pretend to.
theg2 13y ago
Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? Software is about choice and productivity. It's great that we have choices and I embrace a variety of them throughout my personal and professional life, but this "us against them" philosophy belongs in a boardroom and not in the hands of users and creatives. We can say Ubuntu has come a long way (and it has) and that it's done a lot for gaining mind share (bingo), but a huge turn off for me in OSS is this "us against THE MAN" philosophy, why can't software just be software, a means of expression that you gives you choice?
- davexunit 13y ago
  Because software freedom is important?
- thiderman 13y ago
  >Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? No, we're not. That's pretty much the point of the comment and the closing of the bug.
- Toshio 13y ago
  > Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? I'm disenchanted with your double quotes. This war is real and it will remain so as long as motherboards of generic PCs/laptops come preinfected with microsoft's signing key (which is even more evil than DRM).
- paddyoloughlin 13y ago
  The topic is that the bug has been closed. Surely it is not fair to interpret that as a divisive action.
- pavs 13y ago
  Either you haven't read mark's comment entirely or you have serious reading comprehension issues.
- shrikant 13y ago
  Maybe it's an age thing, but I remember a time I could walk into most major computer stores and have literally no choice but to buy a PC loaded with Windows. The market had been distorted, and this prevented software being about choice and productivity, and instead about who had the larger marketing muscle. To some extent this is still the case in some major retailers today, but they at least recognise that they're not offering choices. Their brush-off of Mac OS and Linux may be flawed (or not), but that the existence of alternate OSes is even acknowledged is quite a marked change from about a decade back.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
cs702 13y ago
Shuttleworth's well-articulated comment and decision to close bug #1 show the kind of open-minded, flexible thinking I wish I would see more frequently from other project leaders in the free/open source ecosystem. The decision to close the bug reminds me of a quote attributed to John Maynard Keynes. During the Great Depression, he was accused of changing his position on monetary policy, to which he responded, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" As an Ubuntu user, I'm happy to see the project shifting its long-term goal from "dethroning Microsoft on the desktop" to "delivering the best possible experience for developers and regular people across all devices." -- Edits: added "on the desktop" to "dethroning Microsoft."
- ealexhudson 13y ago
  The bug wasn't ever about dethroning Microsoft, though. The first few lines: "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix." This bug hasn't been solved. Mark's comment is really saying that he doesn't think it's a relevant bug any more - that desktop is no longer important. I actually find that a particularly sad comment, and I'm not even sure it's true. Edit: I want to add (given your edit ;) that just because this was bug #1, it doesn't mean it was the raison d'etre of the project. Maybe this bug is less important now than in 2004; I disagree that it's "fixed" or that it's so unimportant it should be closed. #1 being open doesn't mean Ubuntu is a failure, far from it.
  - TuringTest 13y ago
    Don't look at it as the Desktop not being important anymore, but as the market having expanded. This means that there are alternatives to the Microsoft monopoly, even if those are not on the desktop; therefore the original problem is no longer that severe and thus has been solved, but in an unexpected way.
    - ealexhudson 13y ago
      I agree with part of that - it's not longer that severe. So, in technical terms, reduce the severity of the bug. Or mark it 'wontfix'. 'Fix released' is inaccurate: MS still have the whip hand in the desktop PC market, and that market is important to many people (me included).
SeanDav 13y ago
I guess it is also time to put that old joke to bed as well: "Question: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: None, they just change the standard to darkness."
- dietrichepp 13y ago
  I always heard the joke as: Answer: More. I thought of this as less of a jab at Microsoft software quality and more of a jab at Microsoft's attitude towards software complexity. If we keep using the lightbulb as a metaphor, we keep the old on/off API and add a dimmer switch which can be controlled over the network, an access control list, and a structure which can define the light bulb's color, direction, luminosity, et cetera. With enough engineers, you can design the last light bulb you'll ever need. The Open Source way is to have seventeen different teams design seventeen different lightbulbs, including one that can scale to 5000W and cause immediate retina damage, and a 1/4W red LED barely bright enough to read by which light bulb users on forums swear by because it's not bloated, and a Gnome light bulb which removed the dimmer in version 3 because only 5% of the user base was even aware that the dimmer existed. It still takes tons of engineers, only now they're all working on different light bulbs. The Apple light bulb is a plain white CFL, with a CRI of 96, a 6500K temperature, and a proprietary on/off switch with no moving parts. It is available as both 14W and 24W. The light bulb has not been updated in a while now that Apple focuses on the flashlight business.
  - SeanDav 13y ago
    My version is from the days when Microsoft software was completely bug free. It had no bugs, only "features". True arrogance. I think I prefer your version though!
    - chimeracoder 13y ago
      So, ironically, your version of the joke would apply perfectly well to Apple today. My how the tables have turned - everything old is new again!
- 13y ago
JulianMorrison 13y ago
Microsoft are still scary and evil (cf: the new XBox and its snoopery), they are just scary and evil and small. For which I can only say thank goodness, and long may it last.
- bornhuetter 13y ago
  You don't work in enterprise, do you?
- cmircea 13y ago
  Microsoft is small? In comparison to what?
  - rednukleus 13y ago
    In comparison to the Apple/Google circlejerk.
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    How many phones run Microsoft? What else matters?
    - unethical_ban 13y ago
      How many business workstations run Linux? How many enterprise mailservers run Postfix? How many governments have /actually/ switched to LibreOffice?
      - Zigurd 13y ago
        The typical computing customer today would have no idea what Postfix or Libre Office are, nor would they know what Azure is. The whole issue of what matters has shifted out from under those things.
        pessimizer 13y ago
        Because businesses don't buy computers?
motter 13y ago
"...it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product." This, in my view, is the salient point for startups when faced with competition. It's too easy to get distracted by zero-sum thinking.
tantaman 13y ago
"Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few." Does anyone else think that things have gotten worse since bug #1, not better? I feel more trapped and locked in by today's platforms than I ever did in an MS world. E.g. app store, google play, amazon whatever, cloud-hosted applications that all charge monthly fees, hosts of applications changing their terms and locking you out of your data or randomly shutting down their services entirely... r.i.p. google notebook, reader, knoll, etc. r.i.p. sims, jet-set-secrets
- jafaku 13y ago
  Then why are you using all that crap? It's not like there weren't other options, especially for a hacker.
- nullc 13y ago
  Indeed. It doesn't surprise me that the actual freedom available to users wouldn't be important to them, but it surprises me that the Bug#1 would have spoken so clearly about it if they didn't understand the issue.
denzil_correa 13y ago
Two very important snippets from comment #1834 on Bug#1. [1] : But it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product. I can't help but remembering a similar move by Steve Jobs once he took over Apple in 1997. Ubuntu doesn't mean "anti-Microsoft" it means (or should rather mean) "great Ubuntu". Now, whether they are able to do that in practice is a different thing but intent is a good place to start with. [2] : For Ubuntu, our goal remains to deliver fantastic experiences: for developers, for people building out production infrastructure, and for end-users on a range of devices. We are doing all of that in an environment that changes completely every decade. So we have to be willing to make big changes ourselves - in our processes, our practices, our tools, and our relationships. Change this bug status is but a tiny example. The key phrase here for me is the one where he lists changes - in our processes, our practices, our tools, and our relationships. This shows aversion to rigidity and adapting to times. I also think the little change there titled "relationships" means a lot. I don't think as an organization you want to be particularly hostile towards your competitors (in particular in words). I always feel that if one needs to be hostile (and/or aggressive); one needs to do that in deeds and not in words i.e. build the best product possible out there using your skills and beat your competitors fair and square. I would assume, nothing is (or hope so) more satisfying than that.
- YokoZar 13y ago
  I edited the bug itself to include a direct link to Mark's comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 Somehow I felt like I was disturbing the universe doing such a thing.
venomsnake 13y ago
So the company that created vast, stable, open and insanely backwards compatible ecosystem is now dethroned. The majority of what displaced it is locked bootloaders, no root and censorship enabled app stores. Everything is open except the end user access to computing resources. Pyrrhic victory if I had ever seen one.
- perlpimp 13y ago
  I think people ought to look past current mobile/platform way of doing things. I think there should be a second wave coming of net/webapp integrated OS in the near future. For one I am very displeased that I have three choices of web, html5(ie phone gap apps) and native platforms. I think web should seamlessly integrate into the mobile OS. At this point most of mobile OS software has been debugged and worked out. But web is still not the desktop on the mobile device. I think there is still an enormous place for innovation that can make appstore like infrastructure irrelevant. Ubuntu can fix that, that would be a huge plus.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    Apple, New Mobile Metro Microsoft and to lesser extent google to less extent pretty much enjoy the gatekeeper position, the 30% cut and the sense of power over developers and users. They are in position to stifle innovation as much as they like.
  - anon1385 13y ago
    Web apps are exactly the kind of locked down environment we should be fighting against. They are only allowed to function within a highly restricted javascript sandbox that is dictated by a small cabal of powerful organisations. The web is more locked down than just about any previous platform.
    - twistedpair 13y ago
      > The web is more locked down than just about any previous platform No. Just no. Anyone, anywhere, with minimal understanding of JS and HTML can pop out a web app mashup today that would have required a hoard of cash, servers, and developers a decade ago to build. Further, for pennies a month they can run and scale it on a 'cloud' service that would have been an investment of millions in the past. The web and web apps are very open. Don't conflate it with copyright trolls and mobile walled gardens. Remember, much of HTML5 started from Konqueror, an OSS browser not belonging to a 'cabal of powerful organisations.'
duggieawesome 13y ago
Bug #1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 The comment thread is a great read.
deleted 13y ago
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dave1010uk 13y ago
The problem reported by the issue is "A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software." This may have been "resolved" but I don't think this has been "fixed". Shuttleworth's comment makes it sound like this issue is either invalid or a won't fix. Even Chrome and Android devices that are available in local PC stores almost always include proprietary software. Perhaps I am missing something but is Shuttleworth now saying that non-free software isn't a problem?
- vidarh 13y ago
  I don't know about Shutlleworth, but for me the big deal is not whether or not they include proprietary software, but whether or not free alternatives are readily available for those who care. And there we've seen a massive shift. I ordered my laptop without OS from a major vendor. I can buy dozens of cheap Android or "real" Linux boxes at Amazon, and every bit of software on most of them either are or can be replaced by free alternatives.
- cbhl 13y ago
  A valid concern, but x86/x86_64-based Chromebooks have a F/OSS BIOS and drivers -- for example, Google went out of their way to contribute the relevant bits to coreboot. Installing GNU/Linux on such systems is straightforward and well-documented (flip the physical or virtual developer switch; enable USB boot from a shell; boot installer or OS from USB) too. Proprietary firmware means dealing with stupid things like hard-coded checks for "Windows Boot Manager" or "Red Hat Enterprise Linux" in UEFI firmware (http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html).
  - dave1010uk 13y ago
    That's good to know. So are we now saying that proprietary software on a device is fine, as long as it can easily be replaced with fully open source software?
    - cbhl 13y ago
      I personally think that the proprietary software on Chromebooks is a means to an end -- the functionality provided by the proprietary software appeases retailers enough to get them to sell it.
veidr 13y ago
I agree that the bug should be closed, but it should be closed as INVALID, or perhaps WONTFIX (since Ubuntu certainly won't be the one to fix this 'bug'). Closing it as "Fix Released" doesn't make sense.
- B-Con 13y ago
  The fix has happened, it's just that most of the lifting came from other people and a change in circumstances. I think it makes sense.
  - ivanca 13y ago
    From the bug: > What should happen: > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. So exactly what definition of "free" are you using to believe this bug is now fixed?
    - etha 13y ago
      Do you always follow the suggested resolution 100%?
- sebnukem2 13y ago
  "Cannot reproduce"
klrr 13y ago
I only find this sad, while everyone goes mobile Ubuntu could have stayed with a focus on desktop and maybe become dominant in that market, at least for developers. Desktop computers won't die since it's the platform of choice when producing software, digital media etc.
piqufoh 13y ago
Bug #1 #open -> #won't fix
mp99e99 13y ago
This is pretty cool. thanks for posting
PlaneSploit 13y ago
wontfix
- shortstuffsushi 13y ago
  By far my favorite response to a confirmed bug. We use Jira, and unfortunately don't have that option configured, it's always a fun one to use ;)
  - sebnukem2 13y ago
    "wf;fu"
Aardwolf 13y ago
Where should one go for a future proof DESKTOP OS these days? Many are ruining the desktop experience because "mobile". KDE seems to be the only UI remaining that is sane for the desktop.
- npsimons 13y ago
  I just switched from GNOME to XFCE after upgrading my main home machine running Debian. I knew the changes were coming, but didn't think they'd be as bad as they were. The transition has been . . . interesting, but mostly tolerable because I pretty much live in Emacs, Firefox and the terminal. I'm actually kind of liking having way more screensavers than I really need (with XScreenSaver versus whatever the GNOME pared down version was), and having less crud and cruft bogging down my lowly old laptop.
  - kmm 13y ago
    I'm debating going to XFCE too. The only thing I'll miss is extending my desktop with Javascript. I see XFCE has extensions too, but they're in C. I like C, but when I see how many lines a simple CPU frequency plugin needs [0], while a comparable extension for GNOME would only be a few hundred lines... 0: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/tree/panel-plugin http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/tree/...
- jmhain 13y ago
  I don't know why people claim that gnome 3 is for mobile. On my nexus 7, it's an unusable piece of crap but on my desktop/laptop, I've never been more productive with anything else.
  - Aardwolf 13y ago
    I don't know whether it's for mobile or not, it just seems that whenever a sucky change is made to a desktop UI it's "for mobile". All I see is that it (and other products) are, despite a previous evolution of 20+ years of desktop UI history, now getting worse instead of better. But maybe you're right, it's not always mobile, sometimes it's making a UI noob-oriented at the cost of productivity. Which is just as annoying.
MrBra 13y ago
Ubuntu's new bug #1: Linux Mint
Fuxy 13y ago
Anybody feel like taking a shower after reading that or is it just me? I mean the bug was basically the inability of customers to purchase a computer with the software/OS of their choice. As far as i can tell i still can't purchase a system without windows unless i build it myself. So what is the reason for closing the bug? Some marketing speech about changing goals etc. I'm sure that's inspirational and all and I'm glad they found a better goal but that doesn't fix this problem.
- nijk 13y ago
  It is modern Ubuntu philosophy, in the Unity era: Ignore what users want or need, ignore bugs, declare victory. Ubuntu was an amazing achievement, creating a user friendly forums, and bug tracker, and instead of handing over the reins when he ran out of ideas , shuttleworth is driving it into the ground.
- nivla 13y ago
  >As far as i can tell i still can't purchase a system without windows unless i build it myself. Well the good thing is we are not living in 1996 either. You can purchase any of the below devices and none of them run Windows: [1] Chromebook - https://www.google.com/intl/en-US/chrome/devices/buynow.html https://www.google.com/intl/en-US/chrome/devices/buynow.html [2] Dell - http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/dell http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/dell [3] Apple Mac - http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac [4] HP - http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/hp http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/hp [5] Asus - http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Asus/ http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Asus/ etc...
- nostrademons 13y ago
  You can totally buy a system without Windows - System76, Emperor Linux, Asus, and Dell all offer PCs that come pre-installed with Ubuntu and never pay the Microsoft licensing fee. I'm pretty happy with my System76 laptop.
- wtbob 13y ago
  > As far as i can tell i still can't purchase a system without windows unless i build it myself. I've bought a laptop from System76 which I've been very happy with. Everything they sell runs Ubuntu. I've just bought a desktop from ZaReason; I'm looking forward to it. They list all the major distros (to include Debian!), and appear to be willing to load others if you ask nicely.
rgbrenner 13y ago
It's kind of a silly bug report (IMO).. so I don't oppose it being closed.. but the first line of the report is "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace." That's still true. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1
shmerl 13y ago
I'd say this bug will be fixed only when Windows tax will be gone forever.
JackpotDen 13y ago
>bug Closed, overtaken by events. Not exactly fixed. Also, moving the goalposts.
Shorel 13y ago
Ubuntu is building a common platform for Desktop, Tablet and Phone devices, and actually a consequence of that is that some very vocal desktop users do not like it at all. It is seen everywhere Ubuntu is mentioned, with a comment along the lines of "forget Ubuntu, install Mint! (because it looks like Ubuntu used to do about 4 years ago)". This bug closing has more to do with aligning the general strategy towards multi-form-factor, that is, less focus on desktop-only stuff. Having said that, I think Ubuntu desktop is absolutely great for power users, you simply learn some new shortcuts and that's it.
mwfunk 13y ago
Some comments have said: it's a silly bug, but the condition is still true so WTF? I would like to think that it was finally closed at least partially because it was a silly bug and this is an acknowledgement of its silliness, and the degree to which it become ever more silly over the years. It would've been well-intentioned but probably misguided if it existed in 1997. It was mildly silly in 2004, but monumentally silly in 2013. In the Linux community (or politics, or business, or professional sports, or entertainment gossip, or any number of other things that people follow), people have a natural tendency to create ongoing dramatic narratives about what's going on in whatever thing it is that they're following. These narratives (certainly the Linux and sports and politics ones) always involve divvying up the participants into goodguys and badguys and us and them, in the most reductive and intellectually dishonest way possible. But, I guess it makes everything fun and exciting, and for people who don't actually know (or want to know?) how complicated and unknowable everything is, it gives them a sense of belonging and makes them feel like they understand what's really going on in the world. Rush Limbaugh has often said things like, "I take things that are complicated and make them simple. I figure all of this stuff out so you don't have to." That tells you pretty much all you need to know about him, and the people he appeals to. I'm not picking on the right, I could throw any number of demagogues on the left into the same category. Anyway, unsurprisingly, the simplified narratives that these people always present are all about how everything's black and white and how this one group of people have all the answers. They could make everything better if only this other group of people, who are chock full of evil and malice towards you, would let them. In politics, this kind of reductionist tribalism is actually really messed up, because it influences the government in real ways. Among sports fans, being a reductionist tribal idiot is not that big of a deal, because it's all in good fun and the worst case scenario is you might have to stumble across some guy's stupid rant about how the Raiders are the root of all evil and the people of Oakland are actually bad human beings by mere association. In the Linux community...I don't know. If you think of it as a fun hobby for a bunch of CS students, engaging in a little reductionist tribal idiocy is possibly amusing, possibly annoying, but pretty harmless. However, at some point as a project becomes larger and more meaningful to more people, I think it actually gets in the way of the community's ability to cohere around truly meaningful goals and ideals. It needs to grow up, basically, and it doesn't need to engage in dumb demagoguery to move forward- it's reached a point where dumb demagoguery may actually hold it back. In 2013, fear and loathing with regard to MS is a pointless distraction. Brain cells devoted to hand-wringing about some imagined Evil Empire are brain cells not spent creating cool and useful things.
fixxer 13y ago
Now if I could just get Ubuntu running bug-free on my Nexus 7...
nottombrown 13y ago
This is an excellent example of leadership. Shuttleworth describes their accomplishments and new goals very clearly. Ubuntu has certainly been a pleasure to use on the cloud. Congratulations to all the contributors.
skrebbel 13y ago
From the original bug report: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. If they were entirely honest, they would've set it to wontfix.
schlecht 13y ago
Despite the small detail that Ubuntu was not at all instrumental in the progression of Android, I think that this was a well written piece, and came at a time where Linux as a whole deserved it.
monomaniar 13y ago
God bless.
josteink 13y ago
Watching this thread shows us exactly why Linux never made it on the desktop: Instead of acknowledging all the change which has happened since this bug was filed, you have endless bickering about details and a "Linux"-community full of people unable to agree about anything, not even their own victory. Only when these people were removed from the equation and replaced with market and user-oriented people (ref the creation of Android), was Linux able to garnish a majority share. It's sad in itself, and sadly enough, it's even predictable.
blahx3 13y ago
Bug #2 Proprietary software and adverts in Ubuntu
walshemj 13y ago
That's not a bug thats a pious and wishywashy mission statement. Does Linux and FOSS movement want to be known as the Lib-Dems of the software world :-)
boomlinde 13y ago
At least mark it as "rejected" -- the problems presented in the ticket have not been fixed.

690 points by daker 13y ago

qwerta 13y ago

Microsoft just become irrelevant :-)

pmelendez 13y ago
I don't think irrelevant is appropriate. Microsoft has very talented people on board and it keeps introducing novel products (Kinect, WP8,etc) You might like them or not but one has to give credit to try new approaches. They are not the unstoppable force that they were before but I think that calling them irrelevant is a bit too much.
- sp332 13y ago
  I have a WP8 phone and love it, but even I can admit that with ~1% marketshare, WP8 is irrelevant. Most people don't own a console, so having a slice of that market doesn't really help either. Having talented people doesn't automatically make people care about your products.
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    I don't think it's the 1% market share that's their biggest problem. The problem is that Microsoft isn't competitive as an ecosystem. Bing search, Hotmail, whatever Microsoft has for music or maps etc. are not what people are using. Yahoo is doing more to attract and retain ecosystem users. Or look at it this way: It's not about selling a phone OS. It's about the ecosystem behind the devices.
    - assemble 13y ago
      There are a lot more who use their ecosystem than you think. All of their services work very well together, the Music and Video services have anything I could ever want (seriously, more current TV shows than anywhere else I've seen), the email calendar and other things work together, Skydrive is incredibly useful. If you don't think Microsoft's ecosystem is competitive, it tells me you haven't tried it.
      - sp332 13y ago
        I didn't even know MS had a video service. A little Googling and I got to "Xbox Video". I thought that was only available via the Windows 8 app (or Xbox) but it looks like any Silverlight-capable browser will work. e.g. http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/TVShow/The-Guild/Season/0/c1e74f93-c25c-4a24-b2c9-8b83201ae4f9 http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-US/TVShow/The-Guild/Season/0/...
    - sp332 13y ago
      The integration with specific sevices is impressive. On one screen, I can see all my Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn connections' updates. On another I can see all notifications across all connected services. The lock screen can show how many emails I have waiting in each account, Twitter messages, Facebook messages, texts, missed calls, and voicemails at the same time. The rest of the "ecosystem" would be a lot more liveable if they only had a decent web browser! The browser on this thing is terrible. It doesn't even have a basic password manager, which is really painful on a touchscreen keyboard.
  - GFischer 13y ago
    Windows Phone is great... until you run afoul of stupid restrictions. You probably will never come across them, but one of my cousins got a Lumia, and made the mistake of not lying when registering the phone. She ran afoul of two things: 1) Marketplace simply does not work if you're a minor 2) Almost nothing works if you set your place of residence to Uruguay. So I had to create a false account for her, and reset her phone twice, before she had a passable user experience. It might "work" if you live in the U.S., but I absolutely do not recommend it for small third world countries, and will only recommend Android here. Btw, I'd add a third caveat: 3) Most software doesn't have "free" alternatives like on Android (absolutely deal-breaking if you don't have access to a credit card, which most Uruguayans don't) It's sad, because the hardware beats the crap out of Samsung phones, the UX is better, and I love the Camera button. Too bad Nokia chose Windows, I loved my Nokia phones (still use one, an N86).
jacques_chester 13y ago
I would be very happy to be a tenth as irrelevant.
- TillE 13y ago
  We're talking about Microsoft, the giant of the computing industry for 15-20 years. Their overall influence is a tiny fraction of what it was. Apple and Google are the major players now. Microsoft is an also-ran.
  - cmircea 13y ago
    They still have a lot of influence in business computing - from PCs to servers. Don't be so quick to dismiss Microsoft.
    - Zigurd 13y ago
      5 years from now most of the currently installed PCs will be gone, and many of them will be replaced by tablets. Will those tablets be running iOS, Android, or Windows?
      - freehunter 13y ago
        Again, enterprise. Business. Not consumer. It doesn't matter if the tablets are running iOS, Android, or Windows. What does and will matter is, which can run Excel, which can run Word, and which can run Eclipse or Visual Studio? Because, besides IE6 apps that will continue to slowly fade, that's what businesses actually care about.
        Zigurd 13y ago
        > What does and will matter is, which can run Excel, which can run Word That's an open question. I would ask instead which ecosystem - Google, Bing/Hotmail/SkyDrive/Azure, Apple, Yahoo, etc. the customer uses as their "home" ecosystem.
      - 13y ago

tlarkworthy 13y ago

Bug #1 "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it – an advantage that’s keenly felt by individuals and organisations all over the world." * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. ... etc ... A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd

reedlaw 13y ago
What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. This bug is still far from fixed by this measure. There seem to be only a tiny handful of PCs that only include free software.[1][2] Only a single laptop includes a free BIOS! 1. http://www.gnewsense.org/Main/LaptopGuide http://www.gnewsense.org/Main/LaptopGuide 2. http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Freest http://libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Hardware/Freest
- raylu 13y ago
  My real beef is how readily Ubuntu installs proprietary software (like binary drivers) while having this "bug" in its tracker. Yes, yes, if you want to get anything done now, you need those drivers. And a lot of users wouldn't use Linux at all if they couldn't get what they wanted now. But the long-term implications of giving into hardware manufacturers is you will never get an open driver. Ubuntu does not care about free software at all (whether or not for good reason) and it annoys me that they pretend to.

theg2 13y ago

Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? Software is about choice and productivity. It's great that we have choices and I embrace a variety of them throughout my personal and professional life, but this "us against them" philosophy belongs in a boardroom and not in the hands of users and creatives. We can say Ubuntu has come a long way (and it has) and that it's done a lot for gaining mind share (bingo), but a huge turn off for me in OSS is this "us against THE MAN" philosophy, why can't software just be software, a means of expression that you gives you choice?

davexunit 13y ago
Because software freedom is important?
thiderman 13y ago
>Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? No, we're not. That's pretty much the point of the comment and the closing of the bug.
Toshio 13y ago
> Oh, we're still fighting this "war"? I'm disenchanted with your double quotes. This war is real and it will remain so as long as motherboards of generic PCs/laptops come preinfected with microsoft's signing key (which is even more evil than DRM).
paddyoloughlin 13y ago
The topic is that the bug has been closed. Surely it is not fair to interpret that as a divisive action.
pavs 13y ago
Either you haven't read mark's comment entirely or you have serious reading comprehension issues.
shrikant 13y ago
Maybe it's an age thing, but I remember a time I could walk into most major computer stores and have literally no choice but to buy a PC loaded with Windows. The market had been distorted, and this prevented software being about choice and productivity, and instead about who had the larger marketing muscle. To some extent this is still the case in some major retailers today, but they at least recognise that they're not offering choices. Their brush-off of Mac OS and Linux may be flawed (or not), but that the existence of alternate OSes is even acknowledged is quite a marked change from about a decade back.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

cs702 13y ago

Shuttleworth's well-articulated comment and decision to close bug #1 show the kind of open-minded, flexible thinking I wish I would see more frequently from other project leaders in the free/open source ecosystem. The decision to close the bug reminds me of a quote attributed to John Maynard Keynes. During the Great Depression, he was accused of changing his position on monetary policy, to which he responded, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" As an Ubuntu user, I'm happy to see the project shifting its long-term goal from "dethroning Microsoft on the desktop" to "delivering the best possible experience for developers and regular people across all devices." -- Edits: added "on the desktop" to "dethroning Microsoft."

ealexhudson 13y ago
The bug wasn't ever about dethroning Microsoft, though. The first few lines: "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix." This bug hasn't been solved. Mark's comment is really saying that he doesn't think it's a relevant bug any more - that desktop is no longer important. I actually find that a particularly sad comment, and I'm not even sure it's true. Edit: I want to add (given your edit ;) that just because this was bug #1, it doesn't mean it was the raison d'etre of the project. Maybe this bug is less important now than in 2004; I disagree that it's "fixed" or that it's so unimportant it should be closed. #1 being open doesn't mean Ubuntu is a failure, far from it.
- TuringTest 13y ago
  Don't look at it as the Desktop not being important anymore, but as the market having expanded. This means that there are alternatives to the Microsoft monopoly, even if those are not on the desktop; therefore the original problem is no longer that severe and thus has been solved, but in an unexpected way.
  - ealexhudson 13y ago
    I agree with part of that - it's not longer that severe. So, in technical terms, reduce the severity of the bug. Or mark it 'wontfix'. 'Fix released' is inaccurate: MS still have the whip hand in the desktop PC market, and that market is important to many people (me included).

SeanDav 13y ago

I guess it is also time to put that old joke to bed as well: "Question: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb? Answer: None, they just change the standard to darkness."

dietrichepp 13y ago
I always heard the joke as: Answer: More. I thought of this as less of a jab at Microsoft software quality and more of a jab at Microsoft's attitude towards software complexity. If we keep using the lightbulb as a metaphor, we keep the old on/off API and add a dimmer switch which can be controlled over the network, an access control list, and a structure which can define the light bulb's color, direction, luminosity, et cetera. With enough engineers, you can design the last light bulb you'll ever need. The Open Source way is to have seventeen different teams design seventeen different lightbulbs, including one that can scale to 5000W and cause immediate retina damage, and a 1/4W red LED barely bright enough to read by which light bulb users on forums swear by because it's not bloated, and a Gnome light bulb which removed the dimmer in version 3 because only 5% of the user base was even aware that the dimmer existed. It still takes tons of engineers, only now they're all working on different light bulbs. The Apple light bulb is a plain white CFL, with a CRI of 96, a 6500K temperature, and a proprietary on/off switch with no moving parts. It is available as both 14W and 24W. The light bulb has not been updated in a while now that Apple focuses on the flashlight business.
- SeanDav 13y ago
  My version is from the days when Microsoft software was completely bug free. It had no bugs, only "features". True arrogance. I think I prefer your version though!
  - chimeracoder 13y ago
    So, ironically, your version of the joke would apply perfectly well to Apple today. My how the tables have turned - everything old is new again!
13y ago

JulianMorrison 13y ago

Microsoft are still scary and evil (cf: the new XBox and its snoopery), they are just scary and evil and small. For which I can only say thank goodness, and long may it last.

bornhuetter 13y ago
You don't work in enterprise, do you?
cmircea 13y ago
Microsoft is small? In comparison to what?
- rednukleus 13y ago
  In comparison to the Apple/Google circlejerk.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  How many phones run Microsoft? What else matters?
  - unethical_ban 13y ago
    How many business workstations run Linux? How many enterprise mailservers run Postfix? How many governments have /actually/ switched to LibreOffice?
    - Zigurd 13y ago
      The typical computing customer today would have no idea what Postfix or Libre Office are, nor would they know what Azure is. The whole issue of what matters has shifted out from under those things.
      - pessimizer 13y ago
        Because businesses don't buy computers?

motter 13y ago

"...it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product." This, in my view, is the salient point for startups when faced with competition. It's too easy to get distracted by zero-sum thinking.

tantaman 13y ago

"Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few." Does anyone else think that things have gotten worse since bug #1, not better? I feel more trapped and locked in by today's platforms than I ever did in an MS world. E.g. app store, google play, amazon whatever, cloud-hosted applications that all charge monthly fees, hosts of applications changing their terms and locking you out of your data or randomly shutting down their services entirely... r.i.p. google notebook, reader, knoll, etc. r.i.p. sims, jet-set-secrets

jafaku 13y ago
Then why are you using all that crap? It's not like there weren't other options, especially for a hacker.
nullc 13y ago
Indeed. It doesn't surprise me that the actual freedom available to users wouldn't be important to them, but it surprises me that the Bug#1 would have spoken so clearly about it if they didn't understand the issue.

denzil_correa 13y ago

Two very important snippets from comment #1834 on Bug#1. [1] : But it's better for us to focus our intent on excellence in our own right, rather than our impact on someone else's product. I can't help but remembering a similar move by Steve Jobs once he took over Apple in 1997. Ubuntu doesn't mean "anti-Microsoft" it means (or should rather mean) "great Ubuntu". Now, whether they are able to do that in practice is a different thing but intent is a good place to start with. [2] : For Ubuntu, our goal remains to deliver fantastic experiences: for developers, for people building out production infrastructure, and for end-users on a range of devices. We are doing all of that in an environment that changes completely every decade. So we have to be willing to make big changes ourselves - in our processes, our practices, our tools, and our relationships. Change this bug status is but a tiny example. The key phrase here for me is the one where he lists changes - in our processes, our practices, our tools, and our relationships. This shows aversion to rigidity and adapting to times. I also think the little change there titled "relationships" means a lot. I don't think as an organization you want to be particularly hostile towards your competitors (in particular in words). I always feel that if one needs to be hostile (and/or aggressive); one needs to do that in deeds and not in words i.e. build the best product possible out there using your skills and beat your competitors fair and square. I would assume, nothing is (or hope so) more satisfying than that.

YokoZar 13y ago
I edited the bug itself to include a direct link to Mark's comment: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1/comments/1834 Somehow I felt like I was disturbing the universe doing such a thing.

venomsnake 13y ago

So the company that created vast, stable, open and insanely backwards compatible ecosystem is now dethroned. The majority of what displaced it is locked bootloaders, no root and censorship enabled app stores. Everything is open except the end user access to computing resources. Pyrrhic victory if I had ever seen one.

perlpimp 13y ago
I think people ought to look past current mobile/platform way of doing things. I think there should be a second wave coming of net/webapp integrated OS in the near future. For one I am very displeased that I have three choices of web, html5(ie phone gap apps) and native platforms. I think web should seamlessly integrate into the mobile OS. At this point most of mobile OS software has been debugged and worked out. But web is still not the desktop on the mobile device. I think there is still an enormous place for innovation that can make appstore like infrastructure irrelevant. Ubuntu can fix that, that would be a huge plus.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  Apple, New Mobile Metro Microsoft and to lesser extent google to less extent pretty much enjoy the gatekeeper position, the 30% cut and the sense of power over developers and users. They are in position to stifle innovation as much as they like.
- anon1385 13y ago
  Web apps are exactly the kind of locked down environment we should be fighting against. They are only allowed to function within a highly restricted javascript sandbox that is dictated by a small cabal of powerful organisations. The web is more locked down than just about any previous platform.
  - twistedpair 13y ago
    > The web is more locked down than just about any previous platform No. Just no. Anyone, anywhere, with minimal understanding of JS and HTML can pop out a web app mashup today that would have required a hoard of cash, servers, and developers a decade ago to build. Further, for pennies a month they can run and scale it on a 'cloud' service that would have been an investment of millions in the past. The web and web apps are very open. Don't conflate it with copyright trolls and mobile walled gardens. Remember, much of HTML5 started from Konqueror, an OSS browser not belonging to a 'cabal of powerful organisations.'

duggieawesome 13y ago

Bug #1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 The comment thread is a great read.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

dave1010uk 13y ago

The problem reported by the issue is "A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software." This may have been "resolved" but I don't think this has been "fixed". Shuttleworth's comment makes it sound like this issue is either invalid or a won't fix. Even Chrome and Android devices that are available in local PC stores almost always include proprietary software. Perhaps I am missing something but is Shuttleworth now saying that non-free software isn't a problem?

vidarh 13y ago
I don't know about Shutlleworth, but for me the big deal is not whether or not they include proprietary software, but whether or not free alternatives are readily available for those who care. And there we've seen a massive shift. I ordered my laptop without OS from a major vendor. I can buy dozens of cheap Android or "real" Linux boxes at Amazon, and every bit of software on most of them either are or can be replaced by free alternatives.
cbhl 13y ago
A valid concern, but x86/x86_64-based Chromebooks have a F/OSS BIOS and drivers -- for example, Google went out of their way to contribute the relevant bits to coreboot. Installing GNU/Linux on such systems is straightforward and well-documented (flip the physical or virtual developer switch; enable USB boot from a shell; boot installer or OS from USB) too. Proprietary firmware means dealing with stupid things like hard-coded checks for "Windows Boot Manager" or "Red Hat Enterprise Linux" in UEFI firmware (http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/20187.html).
- dave1010uk 13y ago
  That's good to know. So are we now saying that proprietary software on a device is fine, as long as it can easily be replaced with fully open source software?
  - cbhl 13y ago
    I personally think that the proprietary software on Chromebooks is a means to an end -- the functionality provided by the proprietary software appeases retailers enough to get them to sell it.

veidr 13y ago

I agree that the bug should be closed, but it should be closed as INVALID, or perhaps WONTFIX (since Ubuntu certainly won't be the one to fix this 'bug'). Closing it as "Fix Released" doesn't make sense.

B-Con 13y ago
The fix has happened, it's just that most of the lifting came from other people and a change in circumstances. I think it makes sense.
- ivanca 13y ago
  From the bug: > What should happen: > A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. So exactly what definition of "free" are you using to believe this bug is now fixed?
  - etha 13y ago
    Do you always follow the suggested resolution 100%?
sebnukem2 13y ago
"Cannot reproduce"

klrr 13y ago

I only find this sad, while everyone goes mobile Ubuntu could have stayed with a focus on desktop and maybe become dominant in that market, at least for developers. Desktop computers won't die since it's the platform of choice when producing software, digital media etc.

piqufoh 13y ago

Bug #1 #open -> #won't fix

mp99e99 13y ago

This is pretty cool. thanks for posting

PlaneSploit 13y ago

wontfix

shortstuffsushi 13y ago
By far my favorite response to a confirmed bug. We use Jira, and unfortunately don't have that option configured, it's always a fun one to use ;)
- sebnukem2 13y ago
  "wf;fu"

Aardwolf 13y ago

Where should one go for a future proof DESKTOP OS these days? Many are ruining the desktop experience because "mobile". KDE seems to be the only UI remaining that is sane for the desktop.

npsimons 13y ago
I just switched from GNOME to XFCE after upgrading my main home machine running Debian. I knew the changes were coming, but didn't think they'd be as bad as they were. The transition has been . . . interesting, but mostly tolerable because I pretty much live in Emacs, Firefox and the terminal. I'm actually kind of liking having way more screensavers than I really need (with XScreenSaver versus whatever the GNOME pared down version was), and having less crud and cruft bogging down my lowly old laptop.
- kmm 13y ago
  I'm debating going to XFCE too. The only thing I'll miss is extending my desktop with Javascript. I see XFCE has extensions too, but they're in C. I like C, but when I see how many lines a simple CPU frequency plugin needs [0], while a comparable extension for GNOME would only be a few hundred lines... 0: http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/tree/panel-plugin http://git.xfce.org/panel-plugins/xfce4-cpufreq-plugin/tree/...
jmhain 13y ago
I don't know why people claim that gnome 3 is for mobile. On my nexus 7, it's an unusable piece of crap but on my desktop/laptop, I've never been more productive with anything else.
- Aardwolf 13y ago
  I don't know whether it's for mobile or not, it just seems that whenever a sucky change is made to a desktop UI it's "for mobile". All I see is that it (and other products) are, despite a previous evolution of 20+ years of desktop UI history, now getting worse instead of better. But maybe you're right, it's not always mobile, sometimes it's making a UI noob-oriented at the cost of productivity. Which is just as annoying.

MrBra 13y ago

Ubuntu's new bug #1: Linux Mint

Fuxy 13y ago

Anybody feel like taking a shower after reading that or is it just me? I mean the bug was basically the inability of customers to purchase a computer with the software/OS of their choice. As far as i can tell i still can't purchase a system without windows unless i build it myself. So what is the reason for closing the bug? Some marketing speech about changing goals etc. I'm sure that's inspirational and all and I'm glad they found a better goal but that doesn't fix this problem.

nijk 13y ago
It is modern Ubuntu philosophy, in the Unity era: Ignore what users want or need, ignore bugs, declare victory. Ubuntu was an amazing achievement, creating a user friendly forums, and bug tracker, and instead of handing over the reins when he ran out of ideas , shuttleworth is driving it into the ground.
nivla 13y ago
>As far as i can tell i still can't purchase a system without windows unless i build it myself. Well the good thing is we are not living in 1996 either. You can purchase any of the below devices and none of them run Windows: [1] Chromebook - https://www.google.com/intl/en-US/chrome/devices/buynow.html https://www.google.com/intl/en-US/chrome/devices/buynow.html [2] Dell - http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/dell http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/dell [3] Apple Mac - http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac [4] HP - http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/hp http://www.ubuntu.com/partners/hp [5] Asus - http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Asus/ http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/make/Asus/ etc...
nostrademons 13y ago
You can totally buy a system without Windows - System76, Emperor Linux, Asus, and Dell all offer PCs that come pre-installed with Ubuntu and never pay the Microsoft licensing fee. I'm pretty happy with my System76 laptop.
wtbob 13y ago
> As far as i can tell i still can't purchase a system without windows unless i build it myself. I've bought a laptop from System76 which I've been very happy with. Everything they sell runs Ubuntu. I've just bought a desktop from ZaReason; I'm looking forward to it. They list all the major distros (to include Debian!), and appear to be willing to load others if you ask nicely.

rgbrenner 13y ago

It's kind of a silly bug report (IMO).. so I don't oppose it being closed.. but the first line of the report is "Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace." That's still true. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1

shmerl 13y ago

I'd say this bug will be fixed only when Windows tax will be gone forever.

JackpotDen 13y ago

>bug Closed, overtaken by events. Not exactly fixed. Also, moving the goalposts.

Shorel 13y ago

Ubuntu is building a common platform for Desktop, Tablet and Phone devices, and actually a consequence of that is that some very vocal desktop users do not like it at all. It is seen everywhere Ubuntu is mentioned, with a comment along the lines of "forget Ubuntu, install Mint! (because it looks like Ubuntu used to do about 4 years ago)". This bug closing has more to do with aligning the general strategy towards multi-form-factor, that is, less focus on desktop-only stuff. Having said that, I think Ubuntu desktop is absolutely great for power users, you simply learn some new shortcuts and that's it.

mwfunk 13y ago

Some comments have said: it's a silly bug, but the condition is still true so WTF? I would like to think that it was finally closed at least partially because it was a silly bug and this is an acknowledgement of its silliness, and the degree to which it become ever more silly over the years. It would've been well-intentioned but probably misguided if it existed in 1997. It was mildly silly in 2004, but monumentally silly in 2013. In the Linux community (or politics, or business, or professional sports, or entertainment gossip, or any number of other things that people follow), people have a natural tendency to create ongoing dramatic narratives about what's going on in whatever thing it is that they're following. These narratives (certainly the Linux and sports and politics ones) always involve divvying up the participants into goodguys and badguys and us and them, in the most reductive and intellectually dishonest way possible. But, I guess it makes everything fun and exciting, and for people who don't actually know (or want to know?) how complicated and unknowable everything is, it gives them a sense of belonging and makes them feel like they understand what's really going on in the world. Rush Limbaugh has often said things like, "I take things that are complicated and make them simple. I figure all of this stuff out so you don't have to." That tells you pretty much all you need to know about him, and the people he appeals to. I'm not picking on the right, I could throw any number of demagogues on the left into the same category. Anyway, unsurprisingly, the simplified narratives that these people always present are all about how everything's black and white and how this one group of people have all the answers. They could make everything better if only this other group of people, who are chock full of evil and malice towards you, would let them. In politics, this kind of reductionist tribalism is actually really messed up, because it influences the government in real ways. Among sports fans, being a reductionist tribal idiot is not that big of a deal, because it's all in good fun and the worst case scenario is you might have to stumble across some guy's stupid rant about how the Raiders are the root of all evil and the people of Oakland are actually bad human beings by mere association. In the Linux community...I don't know. If you think of it as a fun hobby for a bunch of CS students, engaging in a little reductionist tribal idiocy is possibly amusing, possibly annoying, but pretty harmless. However, at some point as a project becomes larger and more meaningful to more people, I think it actually gets in the way of the community's ability to cohere around truly meaningful goals and ideals. It needs to grow up, basically, and it doesn't need to engage in dumb demagoguery to move forward- it's reached a point where dumb demagoguery may actually hold it back. In 2013, fear and loathing with regard to MS is a pointless distraction. Brain cells devoted to hand-wringing about some imagined Evil Empire are brain cells not spent creating cool and useful things.

fixxer 13y ago

Now if I could just get Ubuntu running bug-free on my Nexus 7...

nottombrown 13y ago

This is an excellent example of leadership. Shuttleworth describes their accomplishments and new goals very clearly. Ubuntu has certainly been a pleasure to use on the cloud. Congratulations to all the contributors.

skrebbel 13y ago

From the original bug report: > Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. If they were entirely honest, they would've set it to wontfix.

schlecht 13y ago

Despite the small detail that Ubuntu was not at all instrumental in the progression of Android, I think that this was a well written piece, and came at a time where Linux as a whole deserved it.

monomaniar 13y ago

God bless.

josteink 13y ago

Watching this thread shows us exactly why Linux never made it on the desktop: Instead of acknowledging all the change which has happened since this bug was filed, you have endless bickering about details and a "Linux"-community full of people unable to agree about anything, not even their own victory. Only when these people were removed from the equation and replaced with market and user-oriented people (ref the creation of Android), was Linux able to garnish a majority share. It's sad in itself, and sadly enough, it's even predictable.

blahx3 13y ago

Bug #2 Proprietary software and adverts in Ubuntu

walshemj 13y ago

That's not a bug thats a pious and wishywashy mission statement. Does Linux and FOSS movement want to be known as the Lib-Dems of the software world :-)

boomlinde 13y ago

At least mark it as "rejected" -- the problems presented in the ticket have not been fixed.