39 ms·

Sure, if you equate "making a living" to "working for some guy who's going to get rich off your work", it's never a good idea to work so hard you forget to live

by octane 17y ago

Sure, if you equate "making a living" to "working for some guy who's going to get rich off your work", it's never a good idea to work so hard you forget to live. Only a fool would work hard for someone else. If, however, you're making a company and not a living, this nice little rule doesn't apply anymore.

mronge 17y ago
I still think your missing the point. Sure you might like to program and design a product, and it might not be work to you.. but where does a significant other fit into this picture? What about having children? If you're spending all your time working on a company than you won't have time for these finer things in life.
- octane 17y ago
  > but where does a significant other fit into this picture? It doesn't. I'm not "missing" the point. Children? Don't make me laugh, I'm far too young for that.
nostrademons 17y ago
Man, that sounds familiar. I bet if you went back two years on this site, you could find comments from me that say almost exactly the same thing. Anyway, as someone who tried making a company and is now happily "working for some guy who's going to get rich off your work", I want to say "Yes, but..." It can be incredibly rewarding to work flat-out on work that's worth doing. I wouldn't trade my startup experience for anything - not even the chance to have joined Google in 2005 and now be more senior than 85% of engineers there, or the chance to be employee #2 at DropBox. But you have to remember that the median startup outcome is zero. Zilch. No value created. You're not "working for some guy who's going to get rich off your work", because nobody's going to get rich off your work. It just disappears into the ether when you find out that nobody wants it. And that's basically unavoidable, no matter how hard you work: you can certainly increase your chance of success, but you're not going to bring it over half. The people I know who are most bitter about their startup experiences are those who are sure they're going to get rich. Because they don't, and then they realize they "traded in their twenties for a worthless pile of tech stock." Do a startup for the right reasons - either because you need to test your limits and see just what you can accomplish, or because there's a product that absolutely must exist and nobody else is making it happen. (The latter case is also the most likely to succeed, financially.) Don't do it because you "want to be an entrepreneur", "don't want to work for anyone else", or worst of all, because you "want to get rich".
- deleted 17y ago
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- deleted 17y ago
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- octane 17y ago
  What makes you think this is my first startup and what makes you think I haven't failed before? Not everyone gives up after one. Not everyone is forced to work after failure because they weren't smart with their personal finances.
  - nostrademons 17y ago
    FWIW, I could've afforded to keep going 2-3 times as long as I did. The limiting factor was ideas: all my ideas were lame, so I decided to work for a company that was doing not-lame things, gain some experience, build some contacts, and try again. I don't know what you're working on or what your goals are, so I have no idea how much this applies to you. But for me, the idea of doing the same wrong thing over and over again is more futile than just giving up. So I decided to do something radically different, roll the dice in another way, and see where it takes me.
chime 17y ago
> If, however, you're making a company and not a living, this nice little rule doesn't apply anymore. The only rules that apply to your life are the ones you make or accept. So you are absolutely free to live your life as if the only thing that matters is success in your ventures or projects. You may think that since you are young, you will have plenty of time later (especially once you are independently wealthy) to live a more fruitful, meaningful life. That is a common misconception. Just like you are learning to work better, you also have to learn to live better. You have to grow yourself at the same time as growing your business. Or else at age 35, you will be no different than a rich 15 year old who has 20 fewer years to enjoy life than everyone else. Depending on your goals, hobbies, and capabilities, you can do a lot in your life in addition to your work starting right now. I cofounded two decently successful startups in last couple of years, am going to B-school like the article's author, and last week I finished building an aviary/animal-house in my backyard with my wife (for the curious, pics of the structure + animals here: http://chir.ag/gallery/aviary2009 http://chir.ag/gallery/aviary2009 ). Right now, I'm training for an ultramarathon and also working on a neat (and near-and-dear) side-project for a family member. I'm not saying I'm awesome or better than anyone. I'm saying I could be single-mindedly pursuing one goal and instead, I've decided to pursue multiple goals at the same time, each with different levels of ambition and effort. Many of the goals are work/business related and many are not. There is no doubt that if I work on my projects 18 hours a day, I will get more accomplished in the short-term. But I have learnt over time that living a full, well-balanced life gives me a lot more value compared to the efforts I put in. While there are a lot of successful people who dedicated their entire lives to one single goal, this doesn't mean if you try to widen your interests you won't be successful in anything. E.g. Ted Turner is a world-class sailing champ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner#Sailing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner#Sailing I try to model my life after Feynman, in the sense that, I will try to be very good in one or two things, and try everything else with light-hearted but passionate efforts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#Personal_life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#Personal_life I feel that being a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath maximizes the utility I derive from life. I don't think this is the only way to go for everyone, but I do think the sweet spot for most lies somewhere in between single-minded dedication and being a Polymath.
- 17y ago

by octane 17y ago

mronge 17y ago

I still think your missing the point. Sure you might like to program and design a product, and it might not be work to you.. but where does a significant other fit into this picture? What about having children? If you're spending all your time working on a company than you won't have time for these finer things in life.

octane 17y ago
> but where does a significant other fit into this picture? It doesn't. I'm not "missing" the point. Children? Don't make me laugh, I'm far too young for that.

nostrademons 17y ago

Man, that sounds familiar. I bet if you went back two years on this site, you could find comments from me that say almost exactly the same thing. Anyway, as someone who tried making a company and is now happily "working for some guy who's going to get rich off your work", I want to say "Yes, but..." It can be incredibly rewarding to work flat-out on work that's worth doing. I wouldn't trade my startup experience for anything - not even the chance to have joined Google in 2005 and now be more senior than 85% of engineers there, or the chance to be employee #2 at DropBox. But you have to remember that the median startup outcome is zero. Zilch. No value created. You're not "working for some guy who's going to get rich off your work", because nobody's going to get rich off your work. It just disappears into the ether when you find out that nobody wants it. And that's basically unavoidable, no matter how hard you work: you can certainly increase your chance of success, but you're not going to bring it over half. The people I know who are most bitter about their startup experiences are those who are sure they're going to get rich. Because they don't, and then they realize they "traded in their twenties for a worthless pile of tech stock." Do a startup for the right reasons - either because you need to test your limits and see just what you can accomplish, or because there's a product that absolutely must exist and nobody else is making it happen. (The latter case is also the most likely to succeed, financially.) Don't do it because you "want to be an entrepreneur", "don't want to work for anyone else", or worst of all, because you "want to get rich".

deleted 17y ago
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deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
octane 17y ago
What makes you think this is my first startup and what makes you think I haven't failed before? Not everyone gives up after one. Not everyone is forced to work after failure because they weren't smart with their personal finances.
- nostrademons 17y ago
  FWIW, I could've afforded to keep going 2-3 times as long as I did. The limiting factor was ideas: all my ideas were lame, so I decided to work for a company that was doing not-lame things, gain some experience, build some contacts, and try again. I don't know what you're working on or what your goals are, so I have no idea how much this applies to you. But for me, the idea of doing the same wrong thing over and over again is more futile than just giving up. So I decided to do something radically different, roll the dice in another way, and see where it takes me.

chime 17y ago

> If, however, you're making a company and not a living, this nice little rule doesn't apply anymore. The only rules that apply to your life are the ones you make or accept. So you are absolutely free to live your life as if the only thing that matters is success in your ventures or projects. You may think that since you are young, you will have plenty of time later (especially once you are independently wealthy) to live a more fruitful, meaningful life. That is a common misconception. Just like you are learning to work better, you also have to learn to live better. You have to grow yourself at the same time as growing your business. Or else at age 35, you will be no different than a rich 15 year old who has 20 fewer years to enjoy life than everyone else. Depending on your goals, hobbies, and capabilities, you can do a lot in your life in addition to your work starting right now. I cofounded two decently successful startups in last couple of years, am going to B-school like the article's author, and last week I finished building an aviary/animal-house in my backyard with my wife (for the curious, pics of the structure + animals here: http://chir.ag/gallery/aviary2009 http://chir.ag/gallery/aviary2009 ). Right now, I'm training for an ultramarathon and also working on a neat (and near-and-dear) side-project for a family member. I'm not saying I'm awesome or better than anyone. I'm saying I could be single-mindedly pursuing one goal and instead, I've decided to pursue multiple goals at the same time, each with different levels of ambition and effort. Many of the goals are work/business related and many are not. There is no doubt that if I work on my projects 18 hours a day, I will get more accomplished in the short-term. But I have learnt over time that living a full, well-balanced life gives me a lot more value compared to the efforts I put in. While there are a lot of successful people who dedicated their entire lives to one single goal, this doesn't mean if you try to widen your interests you won't be successful in anything. E.g. Ted Turner is a world-class sailing champ: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner#Sailing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner#Sailing I try to model my life after Feynman, in the sense that, I will try to be very good in one or two things, and try everything else with light-hearted but passionate efforts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#Personal_life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#Personal_life I feel that being a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath maximizes the utility I derive from life. I don't think this is the only way to go for everyone, but I do think the sweet spot for most lies somewhere in between single-minded dedication and being a Polymath.

17y ago