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Except that working at a no-name software shop will pay significantly better, and then you can take your SF developer experience to middle America and get decen

Except that working at a no-name software shop will pay significantly better, and then you can take your SF developer experience to middle America and get decent paying corporate job and a McMansion.

johnjlocke 13y ago
Except that all the money you earn goes to paying the rent on your $2000 studio apartment.
- nostrademons 13y ago
  I think you underestimate the amount of money that Bay Area developers make. $2k/month is $24K/year, which is a relatively small fraction of your after-tax income when you're making $150K/year. One thing people don't take into account when figuring out cost-of-living adjustments: while expenses like rent, taxes, and meals out are typically a percentage of income, expenses like durable consumer goods and savings are measured in absolute dollars, and are fungible between locations. So while it sucks that cost-of-living might still eat up 80% of your income, the remaining 20% is a measly $8k/year at a $40K/year middle-America programmer job, but $30K/year at a $150K/year Bay Area tech job. And the difference gets even more stark with added income - if you make $300K/year (quite doable as a senior engineer at a major tech company in the Bay Area), your taxes go up, but every other expense category remains the same, and so you end up banking about $100K/year. It's not unreasonable for a programmer in the Bay Area to save up half a million over a 4-5 year stint at a company; ask someone in Kansas or Ohio how long they think they'll have to work to save up half a million.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    Since when does your average kid fresh out of college make $150k/year in the Bay?
    - nostrademons 13y ago
      Fresh-out-of-school salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter are in the low six figures (2 years ago I think they were around $105K), get promoted to senior dev after 2-3 years and $150K/year is very doable. It's probably lower at J-random-startup that nobody has ever heard of, but most VC-funded startups will pay market rates.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        We are comparing to acting hopefuls. Is the crem-de-la-crem of the programming world- the ones that get top salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter- really the right people to compare?
        Chronic24 13y ago
        The best "acting hopefuls" make more than top software developers.
  - bubbleRefuge 13y ago
    300K for a senior engineer? Maybe a few people at Google. I've heard of some 200K jobs at Apple for low level systems programming people that are hard to find.
    - fyi80 13y ago
      You may be ignoring 401(k) match, RSU (equity), bonus, and the cost of cafeteria food.

Except that working at a no-name software shop will pay significantly better, and then you can take your SF developer experience to middle America and get decent paying corporate job and a McMansion.

johnjlocke 13y ago

Except that all the money you earn goes to paying the rent on your $2000 studio apartment.

nostrademons 13y ago
I think you underestimate the amount of money that Bay Area developers make. $2k/month is $24K/year, which is a relatively small fraction of your after-tax income when you're making $150K/year. One thing people don't take into account when figuring out cost-of-living adjustments: while expenses like rent, taxes, and meals out are typically a percentage of income, expenses like durable consumer goods and savings are measured in absolute dollars, and are fungible between locations. So while it sucks that cost-of-living might still eat up 80% of your income, the remaining 20% is a measly $8k/year at a $40K/year middle-America programmer job, but $30K/year at a $150K/year Bay Area tech job. And the difference gets even more stark with added income - if you make $300K/year (quite doable as a senior engineer at a major tech company in the Bay Area), your taxes go up, but every other expense category remains the same, and so you end up banking about $100K/year. It's not unreasonable for a programmer in the Bay Area to save up half a million over a 4-5 year stint at a company; ask someone in Kansas or Ohio how long they think they'll have to work to save up half a million.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Since when does your average kid fresh out of college make $150k/year in the Bay?
  - nostrademons 13y ago
    Fresh-out-of-school salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter are in the low six figures (2 years ago I think they were around $105K), get promoted to senior dev after 2-3 years and $150K/year is very doable. It's probably lower at J-random-startup that nobody has ever heard of, but most VC-funded startups will pay market rates.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      We are comparing to acting hopefuls. Is the crem-de-la-crem of the programming world- the ones that get top salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter- really the right people to compare?
      - Chronic24 13y ago
        The best "acting hopefuls" make more than top software developers.
- bubbleRefuge 13y ago
  300K for a senior engineer? Maybe a few people at Google. I've heard of some 200K jobs at Apple for low level systems programming people that are hard to find.
  - fyi80 13y ago
    You may be ignoring 401(k) match, RSU (equity), bonus, and the cost of cafeteria food.