5 ms·

But coming to SF and floundering around is no better than aimlessly moving to LA to become a movie star. Not to be nit-picky but getting start-up experience is

by Zimahl 13y ago

But coming to SF and floundering around is no better than aimlessly moving to LA to become a movie star. Not to be nit-picky but getting start-up experience isn't quite the same as going to casting calls while working at Olive Garden to make ends meet.

sliverstorm 13y ago
What about when you work at a no-name software shop to make ends meet while you pitch to VCs to get your own startup off the ground? The analogy may be more apt than it first seems! ;)
- doktrin 13y ago
  Well, not really. It's possible to get valuable, career-relevant experience at just about any software shop, name or no. With the exception of some people skills, that's not usually the case when waiting tables.
- integraton 13y ago
  Except that working at a no-name software shop will pay significantly better, and then you can take your SF developer experience to middle America and get decent paying corporate job and a McMansion.
  - johnjlocke 13y ago
    Except that all the money you earn goes to paying the rent on your $2000 studio apartment.
    - nostrademons 13y ago
      I think you underestimate the amount of money that Bay Area developers make. $2k/month is $24K/year, which is a relatively small fraction of your after-tax income when you're making $150K/year. One thing people don't take into account when figuring out cost-of-living adjustments: while expenses like rent, taxes, and meals out are typically a percentage of income, expenses like durable consumer goods and savings are measured in absolute dollars, and are fungible between locations. So while it sucks that cost-of-living might still eat up 80% of your income, the remaining 20% is a measly $8k/year at a $40K/year middle-America programmer job, but $30K/year at a $150K/year Bay Area tech job. And the difference gets even more stark with added income - if you make $300K/year (quite doable as a senior engineer at a major tech company in the Bay Area), your taxes go up, but every other expense category remains the same, and so you end up banking about $100K/year. It's not unreasonable for a programmer in the Bay Area to save up half a million over a 4-5 year stint at a company; ask someone in Kansas or Ohio how long they think they'll have to work to save up half a million.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Since when does your average kid fresh out of college make $150k/year in the Bay?
        nostrademons 13y ago
        Fresh-out-of-school salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter are in the low six figures (2 years ago I think they were around $105K), get promoted to senior dev after 2-3 years and $150K/year is very doable. It's probably lower at J-random-startup that nobody has ever heard of, but most VC-funded startups will pay market rates.
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        We are comparing to acting hopefuls. Is the crem-de-la-crem of the programming world- the ones that get top salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter- really the right people to compare?
        Chronic24 13y ago
        The best "acting hopefuls" make more than top software developers.
      - bubbleRefuge 13y ago
        300K for a senior engineer? Maybe a few people at Google. I've heard of some 200K jobs at Apple for low level systems programming people that are hard to find.
        fyi80 13y ago
        You may be ignoring 401(k) match, RSU (equity), bonus, and the cost of cafeteria food.
- ritchiea 13y ago
  This kind of comment makes me wonder what percentage of HN has zero idea of what's it's like to be legitimately broke/poor. Even if you're joking, since you include the winky face, what about actual poor uneducated people who will never have a chance to work in a no-name software shop?
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    What does that have to do with anything? I'm just bemusedly thinking of the parallels between the kid who moves from Small Town, USA to be a star in Hollywood, and the kid who moves from Small Town, USA to make it big with his own startup in SV. "No-name software shop" was probably the wrong choice; a closer tech analogue to waiting tables to fund that acting dream would probably be working IT/helpdesk.
    - pharrington 13y ago
      There is nothing in the corporate tech world that's analogous to trying to live off tips.
      - malebolgia 13y ago
        Counterpoint: salespeople.
        fyi80 13y ago
        Every legitimate business pays a living wage base to salespeople. Commission/bonus is where the "real" money is, not putting food on the table.
  - johnjlocke 13y ago
    99.8%

by Zimahl 13y ago

sliverstorm 13y ago

What about when you work at a no-name software shop to make ends meet while you pitch to VCs to get your own startup off the ground? The analogy may be more apt than it first seems! ;)

doktrin 13y ago
Well, not really. It's possible to get valuable, career-relevant experience at just about any software shop, name or no. With the exception of some people skills, that's not usually the case when waiting tables.
integraton 13y ago
Except that working at a no-name software shop will pay significantly better, and then you can take your SF developer experience to middle America and get decent paying corporate job and a McMansion.
- johnjlocke 13y ago
  Except that all the money you earn goes to paying the rent on your $2000 studio apartment.
  - nostrademons 13y ago
    I think you underestimate the amount of money that Bay Area developers make. $2k/month is $24K/year, which is a relatively small fraction of your after-tax income when you're making $150K/year. One thing people don't take into account when figuring out cost-of-living adjustments: while expenses like rent, taxes, and meals out are typically a percentage of income, expenses like durable consumer goods and savings are measured in absolute dollars, and are fungible between locations. So while it sucks that cost-of-living might still eat up 80% of your income, the remaining 20% is a measly $8k/year at a $40K/year middle-America programmer job, but $30K/year at a $150K/year Bay Area tech job. And the difference gets even more stark with added income - if you make $300K/year (quite doable as a senior engineer at a major tech company in the Bay Area), your taxes go up, but every other expense category remains the same, and so you end up banking about $100K/year. It's not unreasonable for a programmer in the Bay Area to save up half a million over a 4-5 year stint at a company; ask someone in Kansas or Ohio how long they think they'll have to work to save up half a million.
    - sliverstorm 13y ago
      Since when does your average kid fresh out of college make $150k/year in the Bay?
      - nostrademons 13y ago
        Fresh-out-of-school salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter are in the low six figures (2 years ago I think they were around $105K), get promoted to senior dev after 2-3 years and $150K/year is very doable. It's probably lower at J-random-startup that nobody has ever heard of, but most VC-funded startups will pay market rates.
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        We are comparing to acting hopefuls. Is the crem-de-la-crem of the programming world- the ones that get top salaries at Google/Facebook/Twitter- really the right people to compare?
        Chronic24 13y ago
        The best "acting hopefuls" make more than top software developers.
    - bubbleRefuge 13y ago
      300K for a senior engineer? Maybe a few people at Google. I've heard of some 200K jobs at Apple for low level systems programming people that are hard to find.
      - fyi80 13y ago
        You may be ignoring 401(k) match, RSU (equity), bonus, and the cost of cafeteria food.
ritchiea 13y ago
This kind of comment makes me wonder what percentage of HN has zero idea of what's it's like to be legitimately broke/poor. Even if you're joking, since you include the winky face, what about actual poor uneducated people who will never have a chance to work in a no-name software shop?
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  What does that have to do with anything? I'm just bemusedly thinking of the parallels between the kid who moves from Small Town, USA to be a star in Hollywood, and the kid who moves from Small Town, USA to make it big with his own startup in SV. "No-name software shop" was probably the wrong choice; a closer tech analogue to waiting tables to fund that acting dream would probably be working IT/helpdesk.
  - pharrington 13y ago
    There is nothing in the corporate tech world that's analogous to trying to live off tips.
    - malebolgia 13y ago
      Counterpoint: salespeople.
      - fyi80 13y ago
        Every legitimate business pays a living wage base to salespeople. Commission/bonus is where the "real" money is, not putting food on the table.
- johnjlocke 13y ago
  99.8%