7 ms·

Ok, NYC transit has something I need to point out that freaking owns: Express trains. All across the US, municipalities keep building annoying light-rail syst

by kposehn 13y ago

Ok, NYC transit has something I need to point out that freaking owns: Express trains. All across the US, municipalities keep building annoying light-rail systems and basic commuter lines. They have one class of train: stop everywhere and waste your time. What NYC has that I love is express trains on almost every line. Want to go from Penn Station straight to JFK airport? Easy. Want to go from uptown right down to Wall St.? There's a train for that. Most cities - and nations - could learn a lot from NYC being able to handle such a diverse set of schedules. Now if they could only do something about the rats...

rayiner 13y ago
What's amazing is that someone had the foresight to build the express lines a century ago. Honestly, every time I walk through GCT I'm proud to be a human and an engineer.
- kposehn 13y ago
  GCT is indeed a wonder to behold.
- T-hawk 13y ago
  The foresight came from the invisible hand of capitalism. Remember the NYC subway started as two competing private companies. They each strived to offer the best service to compete with each other, which included building tracks for express service. By contrast, modern-day government civil works projects serve political purposes first and foremost, with quality of service coming in somewhere lower on the list of considerations. Everybody's going to vote for a politician who brings transit to their neighborhood or business; nobody's going to flip that vote because the trains are slow.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    No, the foresight came from the Board of Rapid Transit Railroad Commissioners, organized pursuant to statute, which specified the route and the design of the IRT Subway (what is now the 1/2/3 and 4/5/6) and bid out the contracts for its construction and operation. The construction was paid for by the city, which issued bonds to finance the construction. The Manhattan BRT lines were also built under such contracts. The lines were leased out to the IRT and the BRT (both of which were in large part formed for the purpose of executing these contracts) for operation at a contractually fixed fare. So not quite the invisible hand. Today we'd call it a public private partnership, if we were feeling charitable, or maybe government-sponsored duopoly if we weren't. The closest modern analogy is probably the U.S. defense sector. The BRT and IRT were "competing" in the same way that Lockheed and Boeing "compete." The government figures out what to build, while private companies figure out how to build it, and the government foots the bill. I personally think it's an incredibly effective structure, but then again I think there is a place for oligopolies that are quasi-extensions of the government.
warfangle 13y ago
NYC's MTA is one of the only systems where you don't (usually) have to change platforms for the express train, too. For instance, if you're going uptown on the 6 (local), and are planning on going to Grand Central, if there's a 4/5 (express) across the platform, they'll usually hold the 4/5 for enough time to transfer. Most other systems you would have to completely change which platform. And then there's the rush hour based skip-stop service on the J/Z. The elevated J/M/Z line in Brooklyn has three tracks part of the route. In the morning, an express train uses it to go into Manhattan. In the evening, an express train uses it to go to Brooklyn. Great flexibility for a line that's used almost primarily for getting from the outer borough in to Manhattan. As for the rats .... if only they'd enclose the platforms (so edible debris didn't end up swamping the tracks), it'd go a long, long way. And also cut down on passengers being struck by trains after falling/being pushed on to the tracks.
- kposehn 13y ago
  A lot of Japanese transit stations have been enclosed now. The problem tends to be placement of the trains, especially with varying consists with different door placements. That said, with the newer subway cars coming online locked into specific trains, they could start to do this.
skore 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Germany The "stop everywhere and waste your time" is called S-Bahn in Germany. The Express options mostly connect larger quarters or cities and range from the already quite fast (meaning: get you from one to the other in a few minutes) R and RE trains to the faster and city-connecting-only IC and EC up to the big-cities-connecting ICE. For the "very regional", you have your standard subways (U-Bahn) and Trams (Straßenbahn). I like our trains.
- kposehn 13y ago
  I love german trains too. Their systems are quite awesome at what they do. What I don't like in the US is the "Hey, we built light rail!" and then not providing a layer of systems that actually provide the right types of speed/stop mix. Germany has that, through several different networks, in the same region/metro area.

by kposehn 13y ago

rayiner 13y ago

What's amazing is that someone had the foresight to build the express lines a century ago. Honestly, every time I walk through GCT I'm proud to be a human and an engineer.

kposehn 13y ago
GCT is indeed a wonder to behold.
T-hawk 13y ago
The foresight came from the invisible hand of capitalism. Remember the NYC subway started as two competing private companies. They each strived to offer the best service to compete with each other, which included building tracks for express service. By contrast, modern-day government civil works projects serve political purposes first and foremost, with quality of service coming in somewhere lower on the list of considerations. Everybody's going to vote for a politician who brings transit to their neighborhood or business; nobody's going to flip that vote because the trains are slow.
- rayiner 13y ago
  No, the foresight came from the Board of Rapid Transit Railroad Commissioners, organized pursuant to statute, which specified the route and the design of the IRT Subway (what is now the 1/2/3 and 4/5/6) and bid out the contracts for its construction and operation. The construction was paid for by the city, which issued bonds to finance the construction. The Manhattan BRT lines were also built under such contracts. The lines were leased out to the IRT and the BRT (both of which were in large part formed for the purpose of executing these contracts) for operation at a contractually fixed fare. So not quite the invisible hand. Today we'd call it a public private partnership, if we were feeling charitable, or maybe government-sponsored duopoly if we weren't. The closest modern analogy is probably the U.S. defense sector. The BRT and IRT were "competing" in the same way that Lockheed and Boeing "compete." The government figures out what to build, while private companies figure out how to build it, and the government foots the bill. I personally think it's an incredibly effective structure, but then again I think there is a place for oligopolies that are quasi-extensions of the government.

warfangle 13y ago

NYC's MTA is one of the only systems where you don't (usually) have to change platforms for the express train, too. For instance, if you're going uptown on the 6 (local), and are planning on going to Grand Central, if there's a 4/5 (express) across the platform, they'll usually hold the 4/5 for enough time to transfer. Most other systems you would have to completely change which platform. And then there's the rush hour based skip-stop service on the J/Z. The elevated J/M/Z line in Brooklyn has three tracks part of the route. In the morning, an express train uses it to go into Manhattan. In the evening, an express train uses it to go to Brooklyn. Great flexibility for a line that's used almost primarily for getting from the outer borough in to Manhattan. As for the rats .... if only they'd enclose the platforms (so edible debris didn't end up swamping the tracks), it'd go a long, long way. And also cut down on passengers being struck by trains after falling/being pushed on to the tracks.

kposehn 13y ago
A lot of Japanese transit stations have been enclosed now. The problem tends to be placement of the trains, especially with varying consists with different door placements. That said, with the newer subway cars coming online locked into specific trains, they could start to do this.

skore 13y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Germany The "stop everywhere and waste your time" is called S-Bahn in Germany. The Express options mostly connect larger quarters or cities and range from the already quite fast (meaning: get you from one to the other in a few minutes) R and RE trains to the faster and city-connecting-only IC and EC up to the big-cities-connecting ICE. For the "very regional", you have your standard subways (U-Bahn) and Trams (Straßenbahn). I like our trains.

kposehn 13y ago
I love german trains too. Their systems are quite awesome at what they do. What I don't like in the US is the "Hey, we built light rail!" and then not providing a layer of systems that actually provide the right types of speed/stop mix. Germany has that, through several different networks, in the same region/metro area.