4 ms·

when I first heard of DRM in HTML5, the first thing that came to mind was that web apps would be encrypted, and that the only interface people would have would

when I first heard of DRM in HTML5, the first thing that came to mind was that web apps would be encrypted, and that the only interface people would have would be mouse or touch. This would essentially make the web like blue-ray: great for consuming content and playing scripted games, and not-so-great for everyone else. Also, how long before "safe" browsers only allowed drm-encrypted web apps, to "protect consumers"? I agree with the EFF that DRM should not be in HTML5.

kunai 13y ago
...what? That would be quite ridiculous. And the "safe" browser thing will never happen, so long as open-source is alive. Nobody can control the Web. The W3C is forgetting that.
- chris_mahan 13y ago
  What if netflix released its own browser, perhaps a fork of chromium, and all it could do was go to netflix and other such approved (read: drm-ready) sites that paid a fee to netflix? And what if parents made that the default browser on the device? To protect the kids, of course. Of course.
  - rgovostes 13y ago
    What prevents that with or without DRM in HTML5?
    - chris_mahan 13y ago
      Well, they could say: "Download NetFlixBrowser! The fastest, safest HTML5 Browser on the planet!"
      - icebraining 13y ago
        They can already say that.
        chris_mahan 13y ago
        But they would be lying.
        icebraining 13y ago
        Yes, but that would be regardless of any added DRM. It's not like a "HTML5 Browser" can't have additional features - in fact, they all do.
  - mey 13y ago
    How is that different then the Windows 8/Android/iOS/Xbox 360/Wii/PS3 netflix applications?
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    so you mean like a gagillion other HTML apps you can download for your phone/tablet?
- betterunix 13y ago
  "the "safe" browser thing will never happen, so long as open-source is alive" So people who choose to use only free software will be excluded from large parts of the web. How is that a good outcome?
  - duncan_bayne 13y ago
    I'm curious: how do you think an EME standard in HTML5 will change that? Just because your browser supports EME doesn't oblige CDM vendors to produce a version compatible with your platform.
    - betterunix 13y ago
      That was my point: someone claimed that a special, DRM-enabled "safe browser" would never happen as long as there is open source, and I am saying that no, in fact, open source is not going to save us here. The problem is that there is almost no chance of an open source CDM, and a near-guarantee that proprietary CDMs will dominate. Open source browsers will either capitulate and include DRM, or fail to do so and languish in obscurity as their users find themselves increasingly unable to use the web. It is not just about Hollywood. The New York Times will use DRM to try to enforce payments. Scientific journals will use DRM to stop people from sharing articles. Photos will be DRM'd by companies that want to force you to go online to view them, to pay extra for setting them as your background, etc. How long do you think Mozilla can hold out against the pressure to include DRM functionality?
      - duncan_bayne 13y ago
        Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying the exact opposite of that.
ivanca 13y ago
That's the only natural evolution; for example the news sites will say: "Why the movie industry have protection but we don't? We need HTML5 DRM in our writings, is our copyright less important than theirs? I say no sir!" And slowly an internet where you can't use browser extensions, where you can't copy anything you read, where you depend on the existence of a company, a functional internet connection to play (just once) the content you bought, but a content that you certainly don't own.
- chris_mahan 13y ago
  News sites would be all over that. Gaming websites too. Sports websites I imagine...
- belorn 13y ago
  Thats just the start. Create sites which you can't leave or close? Easy, use drm and prevent any action that would closing the tab or give access to the url bar. DRM is code with the intention to take full control over a device after sale. With that, any action is possible. Installing tool-bars, sending browser history, stealing information. The only protection is the letter of the law, and any hacker brave enough to reverse engineer the drm to identify what it actually do (under the threat of DMCA and jail time of course).
- taybenlor 13y ago
  I feel like you're falling trap to the Slippery Slope fallacy
  - ivanca 13y ago
    I wish I had your naivety; but I already sow things like a media center that counts heads and will stop the movie if the amount of people exceeds the number allowed by the purchased licence... http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kine...

kunai 13y ago

...what? That would be quite ridiculous. And the "safe" browser thing will never happen, so long as open-source is alive. Nobody can control the Web. The W3C is forgetting that.

chris_mahan 13y ago
What if netflix released its own browser, perhaps a fork of chromium, and all it could do was go to netflix and other such approved (read: drm-ready) sites that paid a fee to netflix? And what if parents made that the default browser on the device? To protect the kids, of course. Of course.
- rgovostes 13y ago
  What prevents that with or without DRM in HTML5?
  - chris_mahan 13y ago
    Well, they could say: "Download NetFlixBrowser! The fastest, safest HTML5 Browser on the planet!"
    - icebraining 13y ago
      They can already say that.
      - chris_mahan 13y ago
        But they would be lying.
        icebraining 13y ago
        Yes, but that would be regardless of any added DRM. It's not like a "HTML5 Browser" can't have additional features - in fact, they all do.
- mey 13y ago
  How is that different then the Windows 8/Android/iOS/Xbox 360/Wii/PS3 netflix applications?
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  so you mean like a gagillion other HTML apps you can download for your phone/tablet?
betterunix 13y ago
"the "safe" browser thing will never happen, so long as open-source is alive" So people who choose to use only free software will be excluded from large parts of the web. How is that a good outcome?
- duncan_bayne 13y ago
  I'm curious: how do you think an EME standard in HTML5 will change that? Just because your browser supports EME doesn't oblige CDM vendors to produce a version compatible with your platform.
  - betterunix 13y ago
    That was my point: someone claimed that a special, DRM-enabled "safe browser" would never happen as long as there is open source, and I am saying that no, in fact, open source is not going to save us here. The problem is that there is almost no chance of an open source CDM, and a near-guarantee that proprietary CDMs will dominate. Open source browsers will either capitulate and include DRM, or fail to do so and languish in obscurity as their users find themselves increasingly unable to use the web. It is not just about Hollywood. The New York Times will use DRM to try to enforce payments. Scientific journals will use DRM to stop people from sharing articles. Photos will be DRM'd by companies that want to force you to go online to view them, to pay extra for setting them as your background, etc. How long do you think Mozilla can hold out against the pressure to include DRM functionality?
    - duncan_bayne 13y ago
      Sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying the exact opposite of that.

ivanca 13y ago

That's the only natural evolution; for example the news sites will say: "Why the movie industry have protection but we don't? We need HTML5 DRM in our writings, is our copyright less important than theirs? I say no sir!" And slowly an internet where you can't use browser extensions, where you can't copy anything you read, where you depend on the existence of a company, a functional internet connection to play (just once) the content you bought, but a content that you certainly don't own.

chris_mahan 13y ago
News sites would be all over that. Gaming websites too. Sports websites I imagine...
belorn 13y ago
Thats just the start. Create sites which you can't leave or close? Easy, use drm and prevent any action that would closing the tab or give access to the url bar. DRM is code with the intention to take full control over a device after sale. With that, any action is possible. Installing tool-bars, sending browser history, stealing information. The only protection is the letter of the law, and any hacker brave enough to reverse engineer the drm to identify what it actually do (under the threat of DMCA and jail time of course).
taybenlor 13y ago
I feel like you're falling trap to the Slippery Slope fallacy
- ivanca 13y ago
  I wish I had your naivety; but I already sow things like a media center that counts heads and will stop the movie if the amount of people exceeds the number allowed by the purchased licence... http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kine...