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I was an English <> Spanish translator in another life. While I agree with your general idea that there are some untranslatable words, most of the words you ci
by kafkaesque 13y ago
I was an English <> Spanish translator in another life.
While I agree with your general idea that there are some untranslatable words, most of the words you cite do have equivalents in Spanish, unless you are referring to false friends. In that case, it'd be great if you could elaborate. But generally speaking, the translations are regionalisms. Also, I'd like to add that language is very much embedded in culture and vice versa. They work off each other and influence each other.
I think words are concepts. Some of the discourse of translatability in the Spanish-speaking world, especially when the source language is English, usually deals with the illogical sense of English words. Bullying is a good example, actually. Bullying comes from the Dutch word "brother" and its definition has drifted far away from "fine fellow". In Spanish, the word "bullying" in the 21st century English-speaking sense would be related to mean "acosador", which comes from the Latin cursus/currere which can probably best be defined as "to proceed" in English. So "bullying", as you suggest, might not have a one-word translation, but it could be translated as "acosador escolar". However, because Spanish-speakers understand the importance of world integration, "bullying" is also used, though you get purists and word-rebels in some regions who, incidentally, are also anti-American, anti-consumerism and sceptical of the English-speaking world in general.
A similar phenomenon occurs in the UK. You see certain people use an indigenous equivalent instead of adopting a standard "London English" word. It certainly happens in South America. So yes, culture and language are very much tied together.
Personally, I think Portuguese, though a romance language, really shouldn't be grouped together with Spanish, even though I can understand most of it, though I've never taken a single Portuguese course in my entire life. My understanding it has to do with studying Latin and Italian. I think the average, educated Spanish speaker would be able to read maybe 50% and understand spoken Brazilian Portuguese even less. Some words and pronunciations have seeped into Argentina, Paraguay and Bolivia, however.
- diego_moita 13y agoIt is funny how much we agree with each other. When I wrote "direct translation" I meant that I don't know a single word in Spanish or Portuguese that easily translates the whole meaning of those English words. There might be words translating some partial meaning but not fully (e.g: "responsabilidad" vs. accountability). But the main problem is that all translations are too generic and abstract, without the strong specificity of the English original. You showed it very well with the example of bullying, very few people use the translation. I feel that, because these words become vague and generic, they loose some of their original and focused strength. When there is a strong word in Portuguese & Spanish it becomes much more natural (e.g.: "asedio/assédio" means "military siege" in English but is used very colloquially as a translation for harassment). I already posted below in this thread about how the origin of Portuguese and Spanish is so close. I grouped them because for the purpose of this discussion, they are a lot closer among themselves then English and German are. But I surely agree they're not the same language, sorry if I gave this impression.
- saraid216 13y ago> I think words are concepts. My notion of this is that words are pointers to something in a concept space. The words themselves don't and can't contain everything that the concept is; through cultural immersion, you gain a more complete notion of the concept and can more reliably refer to it by using an appropriate word. This is why a lot of words are used to mean things completely unrelated (apparently) to their definition. The address they have in concept space simply changed. And then there's the detail that concepts easily and frequently overlap. I'm sure this has been covered by an Actual Linguist more credibly, though I've never seen it.