4 ms·

This is how doctors in India (and a lot of other countries) work, and it's super efficient. His prices feel very competitive to me. I would carry a high-deducti

This is how doctors in India (and a lot of other countries) work, and it's super efficient. His prices feel very competitive to me. I would carry a high-deductible insurance plan for catastrophes but this would otherwise be a great option. More doctors need to follow this lead.

tlrobinson 13y ago
Agreed. Why does every little doctor visit need to be paid for by insurance? That's not the point of insurance. Auto insurance doesn't cover car washes and oil changes.
- pod4369 13y ago
  You don't need to pay with insurance.
- CCs 13y ago
  Check out HSA. Can be used with high-deductible insurance. You can still file the claim yourself, even if you pay the doctor cash. Once you reached the deductible limit (paying with HSA), the normal insurance will kick in. With $8,000 limit that must be pretty serious stuff anyway.
- logicallee 13y ago
  So, I'm glad you got into the subject of car washes and oil changes. We're trying to regulate car washes so that we can control that market - otherwise, let's say we succeed in a federated model where to be a car wash practitioner you must go through 14 years of very competitive school costing about $1M all told, with a car wash residency on top. This might bring car wash technique into the 21st century, it would result in amazing advances in research, everything from new detergents to car wash garage equipment that makes what we see now seem absolutely third-world. Yes, it would cost $2000-$8000 for a basic wash, but that's actually a low price to pay for clean cities and sanitation, and also it's the list price. Yes, a lot of people would stop washing their cars, that is a personal choice. For the oil changes, we're in a better position - you MUST change your oil from time to time, otherwise you will suffer catastrophic engine damage. People have very little choice. So here, we can get up into the $8000's or so, based on what happens if you don't change your oil. Again, with amazing research and so forth. How many prestigious oil change journals do you think there are today? It is just third world at the moment, this is why we need the medical model here. Then there's the usual benefits, one of the main points of leverage employers would have over any of their employees who drive or are even thinking of driving, is that in fact en masse the employer could ensure these workers for oil changes for a tiny fraction of that list price. Maybe as low as only $500-$800 per month. This keeps people from being "self-starters" who fail to produce value for large companies, instead they would have to negotiate with our federated program on a per-individual basis. But there is a big problem with both of the above utopias: unlicensed practitioners. Sure, if you look at the third world where people are free to try to put whatever they want into their cars, anything from sand to little pieces of plastic toys they melt down - at great risk to all drivers on the road should the cars explode, not to mention to themselves - the oil change prices are very low. Barely the cost of oil that has next to no research into it, plus labor that is about the skill-level of a barber in the middle ages. They do not have 14 or even 12 years of schooling, nor debts even reaching $200K let alone an amount that would motivate them to keep charging the federated prices. So the first step toward utopia is really, we have to clamp down on unlicensed car washes and oil changes. We need a board certification that includes deep understanding of all parts that make up a car, from basic metallurgy to internal combustion and battery technology chemistry. Yes, some people will wash out of metallurgy classes, or projectile calculus, but are these really the people you want taking care of your only means of transportation? Transportation is literally one of the few things that separates us from people in the middle ages, allows us to live and work more than a few meters apart, and enables us to live meaningful lives. Without transportation, we have nothing. So it makes sense to clamp down on the unregulated practices related to serious procedures such as oil changes as well as elective, cosmetic procedures like a car wash. Where the prices are such that certain individuals might not be able to bear the full burden, that's EXACTLY what insurance is for!
- vidarh 13y ago
  That's great for those who can afford it. Not so great when it means you skimp on doctors visits until things get serious because the choice is going to the doctor or going hungry or being unable to pay rent. And not so great for society when we get to pick up the tab anyway when people delay going to the doctor and get so seriously ill they need emergency care, because we'd rather not have people dying in the streets. There's a reason pretty much no developed nations have opted to be without universal healthcare.
- tzs 13y ago
  Failing to wash my car or change my oil does not lead to theft or covered accidents, so the insurance company does not care. Failing to get routine medical care, on the other hand, does increase the risk of conditions that insurance does cover. Hence, the insurance company does care about my routine medical care, and so covers it to encourage it. This is why my health insurance company constantly sends me emails with fitness tips and other health suggestions, whereas my auto insurance company has not once sent me any tips on washing my car.
  - bryanlarsen 13y ago
    No, but oil changes do have an impact on your car's warranty, which is also a form of insurance. Mazda makes regular oil changes a condition of the warranty, and BMW includes them in the warranty. You could use the Mazda model for regular check-ups, but what about the other little stuff? We don't want people saying "My chest pain is feeling better now. I'll save the $75."
  - jerrya 13y ago
    Really? I mean, I would think so, but I see a lot of major insurance plans with very high copays and/or limited to no coverage for annual physicals which would not be the expected behavior of insurance companies felt your annual physical saved them money.
    - danielweber 13y ago
      Annual physicals are, for the vast majority of people, completely useless in terms of health. Lots of common things people imagine "save lives and money" do neither. Vaccines and pap smears are great, but most things aren't.
  - tlrobinson 13y ago
    Insurance companies offer discounts for preventative measures, like taking a defensive driving course for auto insurance, or installing an alarm system for homeowners insurance. Surely you could accomplish the same thing with health insurance?
davidiach 13y ago
And this is how dental care works in Romania and why almost everybody can afford it. If you charge too high people will not come. So they charge prices that are affordable.
vidarh 13y ago
It's super-efficient for those who have money. For everyone else it's a barrier to access.

tlrobinson 13y ago

Agreed. Why does every little doctor visit need to be paid for by insurance? That's not the point of insurance. Auto insurance doesn't cover car washes and oil changes.

pod4369 13y ago
You don't need to pay with insurance.
CCs 13y ago
Check out HSA. Can be used with high-deductible insurance. You can still file the claim yourself, even if you pay the doctor cash. Once you reached the deductible limit (paying with HSA), the normal insurance will kick in. With $8,000 limit that must be pretty serious stuff anyway.
logicallee 13y ago
So, I'm glad you got into the subject of car washes and oil changes. We're trying to regulate car washes so that we can control that market - otherwise, let's say we succeed in a federated model where to be a car wash practitioner you must go through 14 years of very competitive school costing about $1M all told, with a car wash residency on top. This might bring car wash technique into the 21st century, it would result in amazing advances in research, everything from new detergents to car wash garage equipment that makes what we see now seem absolutely third-world. Yes, it would cost $2000-$8000 for a basic wash, but that's actually a low price to pay for clean cities and sanitation, and also it's the list price. Yes, a lot of people would stop washing their cars, that is a personal choice. For the oil changes, we're in a better position - you MUST change your oil from time to time, otherwise you will suffer catastrophic engine damage. People have very little choice. So here, we can get up into the $8000's or so, based on what happens if you don't change your oil. Again, with amazing research and so forth. How many prestigious oil change journals do you think there are today? It is just third world at the moment, this is why we need the medical model here. Then there's the usual benefits, one of the main points of leverage employers would have over any of their employees who drive or are even thinking of driving, is that in fact en masse the employer could ensure these workers for oil changes for a tiny fraction of that list price. Maybe as low as only $500-$800 per month. This keeps people from being "self-starters" who fail to produce value for large companies, instead they would have to negotiate with our federated program on a per-individual basis. But there is a big problem with both of the above utopias: unlicensed practitioners. Sure, if you look at the third world where people are free to try to put whatever they want into their cars, anything from sand to little pieces of plastic toys they melt down - at great risk to all drivers on the road should the cars explode, not to mention to themselves - the oil change prices are very low. Barely the cost of oil that has next to no research into it, plus labor that is about the skill-level of a barber in the middle ages. They do not have 14 or even 12 years of schooling, nor debts even reaching $200K let alone an amount that would motivate them to keep charging the federated prices. So the first step toward utopia is really, we have to clamp down on unlicensed car washes and oil changes. We need a board certification that includes deep understanding of all parts that make up a car, from basic metallurgy to internal combustion and battery technology chemistry. Yes, some people will wash out of metallurgy classes, or projectile calculus, but are these really the people you want taking care of your only means of transportation? Transportation is literally one of the few things that separates us from people in the middle ages, allows us to live and work more than a few meters apart, and enables us to live meaningful lives. Without transportation, we have nothing. So it makes sense to clamp down on the unregulated practices related to serious procedures such as oil changes as well as elective, cosmetic procedures like a car wash. Where the prices are such that certain individuals might not be able to bear the full burden, that's EXACTLY what insurance is for!
vidarh 13y ago
That's great for those who can afford it. Not so great when it means you skimp on doctors visits until things get serious because the choice is going to the doctor or going hungry or being unable to pay rent. And not so great for society when we get to pick up the tab anyway when people delay going to the doctor and get so seriously ill they need emergency care, because we'd rather not have people dying in the streets. There's a reason pretty much no developed nations have opted to be without universal healthcare.
tzs 13y ago
Failing to wash my car or change my oil does not lead to theft or covered accidents, so the insurance company does not care. Failing to get routine medical care, on the other hand, does increase the risk of conditions that insurance does cover. Hence, the insurance company does care about my routine medical care, and so covers it to encourage it. This is why my health insurance company constantly sends me emails with fitness tips and other health suggestions, whereas my auto insurance company has not once sent me any tips on washing my car.
- bryanlarsen 13y ago
  No, but oil changes do have an impact on your car's warranty, which is also a form of insurance. Mazda makes regular oil changes a condition of the warranty, and BMW includes them in the warranty. You could use the Mazda model for regular check-ups, but what about the other little stuff? We don't want people saying "My chest pain is feeling better now. I'll save the $75."
- jerrya 13y ago
  Really? I mean, I would think so, but I see a lot of major insurance plans with very high copays and/or limited to no coverage for annual physicals which would not be the expected behavior of insurance companies felt your annual physical saved them money.
  - danielweber 13y ago
    Annual physicals are, for the vast majority of people, completely useless in terms of health. Lots of common things people imagine "save lives and money" do neither. Vaccines and pap smears are great, but most things aren't.
- tlrobinson 13y ago
  Insurance companies offer discounts for preventative measures, like taking a defensive driving course for auto insurance, or installing an alarm system for homeowners insurance. Surely you could accomplish the same thing with health insurance?

davidiach 13y ago

And this is how dental care works in Romania and why almost everybody can afford it. If you charge too high people will not come. So they charge prices that are affordable.

vidarh 13y ago

It's super-efficient for those who have money. For everyone else it's a barrier to access.