5 ms·

I just wish more American businessmen would wear decent shoes, such as bluchers or oxfords by Alden or Allen Edmonds, so I don't have to see anymore rubber sole

by cmbaus 13y ago

I just wish more American businessmen would wear decent shoes, such as bluchers or oxfords by Alden or Allen Edmonds, so I don't have to see anymore rubber soled, bicycle toed loafers at the airport: http://instagram.com/p/ZbdZfMsM4G/ http://instagram.com/p/ZbdZfMsM4G/

davidw 13y ago
People wear all kinds of silly fashions here in Italy, which is pretty much the fashion capital of the world. Some of them may be well made, name-brand silly fashions, but they certainly look odd 5 years out from when they were 'in'. I'm with Zuckerberg, and Jobs with his 'uniform' on this one: most of that junk is a complete waste of your time. The only winning move is not to play. You don't have to wear just sweatshirts and jeans, but pick stuff you like and get on with life and stop worrying about it.
- dsirijus 13y ago
  Mimicry has its place for those who haven't succeeded globally by the age you're supposed to start wearing formal, or at least "decent" clothes, like Zuckerberg and Jobs did.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    by the age you're supposed to start "supposed to"? According to why? And what gives this amorphous "they" any standing to dictate such a thing? Fuck that... I like to dandy it up and rock the "two and a half piece" suit look sometimes (that is, waistcoat and - in my case - a cravat, but no outer jacket), but I do it because I like it, not because somebody says it's what you're supposed to do. And the rest of the time, this 40 year old sees no reason not to wear jeans and a Twisted Sister t-shirt.
    - dsirijus 13y ago
      Why don't you put "jeans and Twisted Sister t-shirt" version on LinkedIn profile? In the neighbourhood I'm known as "the bathrobe guy with funny facial hair", so I get you. I don't want attract people around me who will judge a book by its covers, but majority people I interacted with are living in that cave. It is pretty oblivious to walk around and think that your appearance doesn't matter to substantial number of people you do business and socialize with. If you want to leave appearance of laid-back honest doer, that's fine. Not all people do.
      - mindcrime 13y ago
        Why don't you put "jeans and Twisted Sister t-shirt" version on LinkedIn profile? That's actually a damn good idea. The picture that is there now is just one I picked because it's a halfway decent picture. I'm not terribly photogenic, so I usually try to avoid having my picture taken at pretty much all costs. If I had a good picture of myself in jeans and a T/S t-shirt, I'd switch it right now. As soon as I can get a new picture taken, I'll do it though. It is pretty oblivious to walk around and think that your appearance doesn't matter to substantial number of people you do business and socialize with. Oh I don't think it doesn't matter to some people, I just try very hard not to think about those people or their opinions. Maybe if I would "play by the rules" more I'd be richer or more successful or whatever, but it's just not worth it... After all, as they say Getcha a 3-piece Wall Street smile and son you'll look just like me I said "Hey man, there's something that you oughta know" I tell ya Park Avenue leads to Skid Row.[1] [1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJrbHapH5pM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJrbHapH5pM
- 13b9f227ecf0 13y ago
  I think the failure of so many in the software/IT business to dress and groom to professional standards has important consequences. The perception of the social prestige of the occupation is lowered in the broader society. This in turn invites the misguided pointy-haired-boss managerial approach to developers. In the eyes of many, software people appear to be some sort of lower level technicians like the guys who stock the soda machines, because that's how they're dressed. Ergo software development must be commodity labor like the soda machine guys. We should outsource!
  - marssaxman 13y ago
    The personal computer industry has its roots in the late-60s/early-70s California counterculture, which deliberately rejected those "professional standards" and the corporate mindset which went with them. It is not a "failure", but a conscious expression of a different value system. People typically care more about the respect of their peers than the respect of random people in general. Wearing a suit among software people doesn't make you look "professional", it makes you pretentious at worst and just a bit weird at best.
jowiar 13y ago
Living in SF rendered my leather-soled AEs pretty much useless. Walking up Nob Hill wearing leather soles is pretty much a treadmill. On the casual end of things, backless sandals are equally iffy (despite the SF Birkenstock stereotype).
- cmbaus 13y ago
  You can have a rubber outsole added to a leather-soled welted shoe: http://baus.net/alden-cordovan-af53-long-term-review/ http://baus.net/alden-cordovan-af53-long-term-review/
- MartinCron 13y ago
  I nearly killed myself walking down a steep wet Seattle street wearing leather-soled dress boots. At least I would have died looking good.
philh 13y ago
"Um, no?" - American businessmen I'm probably overreacting, but your post really reads like "you should wear less comfortable/more expensive footwear because I don't like looking at what you currently own", and that sort of thing kinda pisses me off.
- cmbaus 13y ago
  Most shoes sold in the the US are of low quality and made at a low cost and then sold at a huge markup. They don't last very long and aren't serviceable. Traditionally made welted shoes are neither more expensive over the long haul or less comfortable.
  - pionar 13y ago
    But, that's not what your argument was. Your argument was pretty aristocratic. It's like saying, "Stop being ugly, I don't like looking at ugly people". Very dickish to say, as people shouldn't really give a shit some random dude at the airport thinks about his shoes.
  - eitally 13y ago
    The second sentence isn't a reasonable statement. I am not a big fan of Ecco quality, especially not for the cost, but I bought a pair of their GoreTex books at a discount shoe warehouse for $40 and wore them until the soles fell off before I sent them back to Ecco for warranty coverage (the soles literally fell off). They gave me a $200 credit to buy a new pair. I bought two pairs of Ecco loafers from sierratradingpost.com for $60/ea. I wore one pair for about five years until the sole cracked in half. They gave me $190 warranty credit for that pair. The second pair of loafers lasted one additional year before an elastic band on the monk strap gave out. They repaired those free and sent them back. At this point, I'm not going to purchase any brand new Eccos using my own money, but as long as they keep giving me free pairs I'm happy to wear them. Others in my family have had similar experiences with Rockport and Clarks. I think most people just don't bother trying to take advantage of workmanship guarantees.
bjhoops1 13y ago
All good engineers know the only appropriate footwear for slacks is a pair of New Balance sneakers.

by cmbaus 13y ago

davidw 13y ago

People wear all kinds of silly fashions here in Italy, which is pretty much the fashion capital of the world. Some of them may be well made, name-brand silly fashions, but they certainly look odd 5 years out from when they were 'in'. I'm with Zuckerberg, and Jobs with his 'uniform' on this one: most of that junk is a complete waste of your time. The only winning move is not to play. You don't have to wear just sweatshirts and jeans, but pick stuff you like and get on with life and stop worrying about it.

dsirijus 13y ago
Mimicry has its place for those who haven't succeeded globally by the age you're supposed to start wearing formal, or at least "decent" clothes, like Zuckerberg and Jobs did.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  by the age you're supposed to start "supposed to"? According to why? And what gives this amorphous "they" any standing to dictate such a thing? Fuck that... I like to dandy it up and rock the "two and a half piece" suit look sometimes (that is, waistcoat and - in my case - a cravat, but no outer jacket), but I do it because I like it, not because somebody says it's what you're supposed to do. And the rest of the time, this 40 year old sees no reason not to wear jeans and a Twisted Sister t-shirt.
  - dsirijus 13y ago
    Why don't you put "jeans and Twisted Sister t-shirt" version on LinkedIn profile? In the neighbourhood I'm known as "the bathrobe guy with funny facial hair", so I get you. I don't want attract people around me who will judge a book by its covers, but majority people I interacted with are living in that cave. It is pretty oblivious to walk around and think that your appearance doesn't matter to substantial number of people you do business and socialize with. If you want to leave appearance of laid-back honest doer, that's fine. Not all people do.
    - mindcrime 13y ago
      Why don't you put "jeans and Twisted Sister t-shirt" version on LinkedIn profile? That's actually a damn good idea. The picture that is there now is just one I picked because it's a halfway decent picture. I'm not terribly photogenic, so I usually try to avoid having my picture taken at pretty much all costs. If I had a good picture of myself in jeans and a T/S t-shirt, I'd switch it right now. As soon as I can get a new picture taken, I'll do it though. It is pretty oblivious to walk around and think that your appearance doesn't matter to substantial number of people you do business and socialize with. Oh I don't think it doesn't matter to some people, I just try very hard not to think about those people or their opinions. Maybe if I would "play by the rules" more I'd be richer or more successful or whatever, but it's just not worth it... After all, as they say Getcha a 3-piece Wall Street smile and son you'll look just like me I said "Hey man, there's something that you oughta know" I tell ya Park Avenue leads to Skid Row.[1] [1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJrbHapH5pM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJrbHapH5pM
13b9f227ecf0 13y ago
I think the failure of so many in the software/IT business to dress and groom to professional standards has important consequences. The perception of the social prestige of the occupation is lowered in the broader society. This in turn invites the misguided pointy-haired-boss managerial approach to developers. In the eyes of many, software people appear to be some sort of lower level technicians like the guys who stock the soda machines, because that's how they're dressed. Ergo software development must be commodity labor like the soda machine guys. We should outsource!
- marssaxman 13y ago
  The personal computer industry has its roots in the late-60s/early-70s California counterculture, which deliberately rejected those "professional standards" and the corporate mindset which went with them. It is not a "failure", but a conscious expression of a different value system. People typically care more about the respect of their peers than the respect of random people in general. Wearing a suit among software people doesn't make you look "professional", it makes you pretentious at worst and just a bit weird at best.

jowiar 13y ago

Living in SF rendered my leather-soled AEs pretty much useless. Walking up Nob Hill wearing leather soles is pretty much a treadmill. On the casual end of things, backless sandals are equally iffy (despite the SF Birkenstock stereotype).

cmbaus 13y ago
You can have a rubber outsole added to a leather-soled welted shoe: http://baus.net/alden-cordovan-af53-long-term-review/ http://baus.net/alden-cordovan-af53-long-term-review/
MartinCron 13y ago
I nearly killed myself walking down a steep wet Seattle street wearing leather-soled dress boots. At least I would have died looking good.

philh 13y ago

"Um, no?" - American businessmen I'm probably overreacting, but your post really reads like "you should wear less comfortable/more expensive footwear because I don't like looking at what you currently own", and that sort of thing kinda pisses me off.

cmbaus 13y ago
Most shoes sold in the the US are of low quality and made at a low cost and then sold at a huge markup. They don't last very long and aren't serviceable. Traditionally made welted shoes are neither more expensive over the long haul or less comfortable.
- pionar 13y ago
  But, that's not what your argument was. Your argument was pretty aristocratic. It's like saying, "Stop being ugly, I don't like looking at ugly people". Very dickish to say, as people shouldn't really give a shit some random dude at the airport thinks about his shoes.
- eitally 13y ago
  The second sentence isn't a reasonable statement. I am not a big fan of Ecco quality, especially not for the cost, but I bought a pair of their GoreTex books at a discount shoe warehouse for $40 and wore them until the soles fell off before I sent them back to Ecco for warranty coverage (the soles literally fell off). They gave me a $200 credit to buy a new pair. I bought two pairs of Ecco loafers from sierratradingpost.com for $60/ea. I wore one pair for about five years until the sole cracked in half. They gave me $190 warranty credit for that pair. The second pair of loafers lasted one additional year before an elastic band on the monk strap gave out. They repaired those free and sent them back. At this point, I'm not going to purchase any brand new Eccos using my own money, but as long as they keep giving me free pairs I'm happy to wear them. Others in my family have had similar experiences with Rockport and Clarks. I think most people just don't bother trying to take advantage of workmanship guarantees.

bjhoops1 13y ago

All good engineers know the only appropriate footwear for slacks is a pair of New Balance sneakers.