14 ms·

Singapore to regulate high traffic websites that report on Singapore

100 points by yink 13y ago

nubela 13y ago
I'm a Singaporean and I fucking hate this. In fact, I built getgom.com because our government has decided to ban porn as well. And now.. THIS. Any Singaporean HNers out there, if you're up for it, as a programmer, I'm wanna build something to circumvent this. Holler if you're keen. Cheers. -- On another note, this is why whenever people say that Singapore is a fine place to start a business, I say thats probably because you don't "live LIVE" here. It's just another hub that you'll attempt to start up a business, and leave somewhat. Unless you come from a 3rd world/developing nation and come here to build wages. Other than that, I don't know many true blue Singaporeans that's actually happy with the state of things.
- frontfor 13y ago
  If the regulations are about blocking websites using standard Internet censorship techniques akin to the Great Firewall of China, then it is relatively easy to circumvent (provided that Singapore doesn't implement that at a scale comparable to China). VPN, SSH server in foreign country, proxy, Tor etc should do the job. But if the regulations are about monitoring, reviewing and controlling, say, local news reports before they are published on those websites, then there is nothing you can do, unfortunately.
  - ValentineC 13y ago
    > And now.. THIS. Any Singaporean HNers out there, if you're up for it, as a programmer, I'm wanna build something to circumvent this. Holler if you're keen. Cheers. This might not be possible to circumvent with a 'hack'. What this is, is the digital equivalent to the Newspapers and Printing Presses Act [1] (which is part of the "regulatory framework" for traditional news platforms that is cited in the article). It's a legal/regulatory thing, not a software thing. Put simply, yes, this is a way for the government to regulate major news organisations that are regularly visited by Singapore IP addresses, and that write Singapore-related news articles at least once a week. (The MDA seems to consider online services regulated under the Broadcasting Act. [2]) So: (1) they ask these big companies to put up a $50,000 bond; (2) big company's employees may feel the need to self-censor, especially if there's a possibility that they might lose their jobs and much more if they're the ones who write the articles causing big company to lose part of their performance bond; (3) they achieve some degree of control over news and media organisations with an incorporated entity in Singapore, since those are the easiest to regulate. The way I see it, it's really hard to define what Singapore-related news is, and 50,000 unique IPs is roughly 0.08% of the IPv4 addresses allocated to Singapore [3]. Considering that most consumer internet services here use dynamic IP allocation, it's not a high threshold to hit. (I'm not a lawyer. I'm also very interested in hearing everyone else's take on this.) [1] http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=0;query=CompId%3A87a8472b-dd54-401a-b027-11e2bb71e5ca;rec=0 http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=... [2] http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=0;query=DocId%3A11156ade-b327-43b6-a9bf-ab07bb7e2307%20%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0 http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=... [3] data from http://www.nirsoft.net/countryip/sg.html http://www.nirsoft.net/countryip/sg.html
    - salem 13y ago
      My initial reaction on the new regulation was "good luck with that one" but... like you point out, large organizations will likely comply to take down requests or risk getting blocked (for less tech savvy users anyway), and eventually reduce their reporting or self-censor. I-am-not-a-lawyer, but my guess is that organizations outside of Singapore that ignore the law will put their executive staff at risk of prosecution if they ever travel through Singapore (a significant hub of air travel). So the likelihood that this regulation is toothless and can be circumvented via proxies or Tor is low.
- patmcguire 13y ago
  There are no pictures, btw, for those a work.
- TA3142 13y ago
  The porn ban is simply just for show, there are tons of other sites that are not blocked. Same goes for this, I don't believe any internet-savvy user actually visits yahoo news or the other state medias(>stomp, hah.) As a programmer, this ban should hardly, if at all, affect you in any way. If you actually care about freedom, then recognize the fact that Singapore has decided to give up some freedom for the sake of peace. Not much terrorism here, is there?
saryant 13y ago
Singapore isn't exactly huge. What's to stop someone from setting up Wimax in Johor Bahru (just across the border in Malaysia) and broadcasting the signal into Singapore?
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  Wouldn't the Malaysians just shut that down? No point in unnecessarily antagonizing the Singaporean government.
- andyking 13y ago
  I don't think this is practical - even if the Malaysians allowed it, Johor Bahru is north of Singapore and the main population centre and business district of the island is along the south coast. Signals at such high frequencies simply wouldn't penetrate the extremely dense urban landscape of Singapore other than along a narrow northern coastal strip.
- green7ea 13y ago
  A signal like that would be very easy to jam for a government if they chose to do so. Encryption (if you can connect to an outside host) or a channel that is harder to jam (satelite, wires, laser beams, etc.) are the only real options.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
elfgoh 13y ago
In related news, someone has setup a tumblr blog to parody this move http://simisaialsolicence.tumblr.com/ http://simisaialsolicence.tumblr.com/
elfgoh 13y ago
Wrong way to make the front page of hackernews sigh
revelation 13y ago
Oops, the cool, tax-saving getaway is a fascist dictatorship. Who could have known.
- damoncali 13y ago
  Singapore has an interesting government in that it's a single party, rigged system (by US standards) where the leadership is generally very popular. A true "benevolent dictatorship" if you will. On the other hand, I would not want to be anywhere near the place if the ruling party actually loses an election, as freedom is not high on their agenda.
  - nubela 13y ago
    It isn't popular. Gerrymandering win seats.
    - damoncali 13y ago
      I overstated that. I should have said "popular enough that nobody does anything about it". I've only been in Singapore once, and found it odd that I felt more "watched" by the government than I did in places like Vietnam, where they really were watching me. Very cool place, but I wouldn't want to live there permanently.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- mseebach 13y ago
  It's generally well known that Singapore has no political freedom and only limited freedom of speech. However, financial freedom is in short supply in the world, and Singapore is one of the nicer places that have it. To call Singapore a "fascist dictatorship" is only true in the most literal senses of the words. It's by no means perfect, but Singapore has a much better record on human rights than anyone generally considered "fascist dictatorships". I'm not suggesting they should get a free pass, but it's not exactly Belarus there.
seivan 13y ago
Honestly, with the hate-mongering, the amount of rumours dressed like news on these high-traffic websites flooded with so called keyboard-warriors, I actually welcome something to counter it... however... Unfortunately it will be poorly implemented, and going to look like Chinas firewall. I just wish instead of trying to spend money on silencing most of the bunch of morons who somehow got an audience on lies and rumours (most of the time) - they open up to more transparency and would somehow counter most of the bs articles. They like to call themselves "alternative media" and everyone else are "politically correct corrupt media". Sigh. ps Does anyone remember the series of images comparing George Orwell with someone else regarding the overload of bad/junk information? ds
- carbocation 13y ago
  > ps Does anyone remember the series of images comparing Orson Wells with someone else regarding the overload of bad/junk information? You're referring to Stuart McMillen's comic-style adaptation of a part of Neil Postman's book, "Amusing Ourselves to Death". Though McMillen has removed his poster at the request of Postman's estate [1], you can still find the comic on the internet [2]. 1 = http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/cartoon-blog/amusing-ourselves-to-death/ http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/cartoon-blog/amusing-ours... 2 = http://www.juxtapoz.com/current/huxley-vs-orwell-in-graphic-form http://www.juxtapoz.com/current/huxley-vs-orwell-in-graphic-...
  - seivan 13y ago
    Thank you! I think the best way to do what Orson Welles tried to warn us about, is to "amuse your sheeps to death".
    - carbocation 13y ago
      My pleasure! Just to reduce the mixing of themes, I wanted to comment that amusement is a big part of Huxley's Brave New World, but it really doesn't fit with Orwell's 1984. Postman's thesis is that Huxley, not Orwell, was more prescient in his fears for humanity.
- 13y ago
coldcode 13y ago
How do they propose to force licenses on people outside of Singapore unless they have a great wall of china system? I guess since this is on HN they will demand a license?
kmfrk 13y ago
Singapore is like a YouTube sketch of what the Apple App Store would be like, if it were a country.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  It's funny how some people always find a way to take a stab at Apple, even when commenting on completely unrelated topics.
- mdda 13y ago
  Love the analogy. And I'm guessing that a fair proportion of the people espousing Freedom of Speech/Politics here are also carrying iPhones, and benefit from the rules-based system of the App Store. The common justification for loving Apple is that their imposition of rules is based on a fantastic focus on making things 'just work'. And that abiding by the rules is a small price to pay. Also, let's not forget that Singapore is a country that's smaller than New York City. Of course, NYC is not as free as many places in the US either...
  - ValentineC 13y ago
    Why do you think New York City is not as free as many places in the US? (Just curious.)
outside1234 13y ago
Not a surprise. Singapore is only two or three shades off of mainland China in controlling its citizens.
Zoepfli 13y ago
Any Singaporeans here? What's preventing you from chatting up the government and ask for free elections? They don't seem that evil to me..? You know, tell them "thanks, you did a great job developing this country, but we would like to take it from here and control our own future...". What would happen? Is there any way to do this that would be successful?
- EliRivers 13y ago
  It's gradually happening. The PAP hold fewer seats now than at any time in Singaporean history.
  - ValentineC 13y ago
    I should add that Singapore politics is somewhat complex, and it takes months, if not years, of following Singapore news to have a grasp of what the sentiment on the ground is. Some of the points that I think are relevant to this thread: (1) Much of the older generation and many newly naturalised immigrants feel that the incumbent government brought them to where they are today, and are willing to give up some liberties for economic success. (2) Many of Singapore's constituencies are banded into groups for election and town management purposes. [1] The party in power has the advantage in that Cabinet ministers are members of the majority party appointed by the leader, enjoy a much higher media profile by virtue of their jobs, and are more often than not the heavyweight in a group electoral contest. This makes it difficult for opposing parties to win in a positive publicity contest, since they enjoy far fewer opportunities for positive media coverage. (3) The perception of opposition quality in Singapore is still very negative. While there were opposition candidates with stellar educational and professional backgrounds in the previous election, much of the talent willing to enter politics tend to be courted by the leading party. Also, no opposition party thus far has spoken out against this policy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Representation_Constituency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Representation_Constituen...
    - ValentineC 13y ago
      Just to follow up on point #3, one of the opposition parties in Singapore has raised some concerns over the policy: https://www.facebook.com/nicoleseahnsp/posts/494238060647270 https://www.facebook.com/nicoleseahnsp/posts/494238060647270
batgaijin 13y ago
Why now?
lominming 13y ago
This does not make much sense. How do you regulate media talking about you? This essentially means that you want to regulate everyone's freedom of speech. "Online news sites that report regularly on issues relating to Singapore and have significant reach among readers here will require an individual license" This is so vague. If everyone on Facebook and Twitter is talking about Singapore (which are not news sites), would FB and Twitter require a license? It says that it does not apply to blogs. So everything here is ok? Again, blogs/news site/video sites are so vague. News is essentially a content type, not a platform type. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/blogs/directory.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/blogs/directory.html I think this is unrealistic and is not going work in the long run.
elfgoh 13y ago
Satirical article of how the policy came about http://www.breakfastnetwork.sg/?p=4850 http://www.breakfastnetwork.sg/?p=4850

100 points by yink 13y ago

I'm a Singaporean and I fucking hate this. In fact, I built getgom.com because our government has decided to ban porn as well. And now.. THIS. Any Singaporean HNers out there, if you're up for it, as a programmer, I'm wanna build something to circumvent this. Holler if you're keen. Cheers. -- On another note, this is why whenever people say that Singapore is a fine place to start a business, I say thats probably because you don't "live LIVE" here. It's just another hub that you'll attempt to start up a business, and leave somewhat. Unless you come from a 3rd world/developing nation and come here to build wages. Other than that, I don't know many true blue Singaporeans that's actually happy with the state of things.

frontfor 13y ago
If the regulations are about blocking websites using standard Internet censorship techniques akin to the Great Firewall of China, then it is relatively easy to circumvent (provided that Singapore doesn't implement that at a scale comparable to China). VPN, SSH server in foreign country, proxy, Tor etc should do the job. But if the regulations are about monitoring, reviewing and controlling, say, local news reports before they are published on those websites, then there is nothing you can do, unfortunately.
- ValentineC 13y ago
  > And now.. THIS. Any Singaporean HNers out there, if you're up for it, as a programmer, I'm wanna build something to circumvent this. Holler if you're keen. Cheers. This might not be possible to circumvent with a 'hack'. What this is, is the digital equivalent to the Newspapers and Printing Presses Act [1] (which is part of the "regulatory framework" for traditional news platforms that is cited in the article). It's a legal/regulatory thing, not a software thing. Put simply, yes, this is a way for the government to regulate major news organisations that are regularly visited by Singapore IP addresses, and that write Singapore-related news articles at least once a week. (The MDA seems to consider online services regulated under the Broadcasting Act. [2]) So: (1) they ask these big companies to put up a $50,000 bond; (2) big company's employees may feel the need to self-censor, especially if there's a possibility that they might lose their jobs and much more if they're the ones who write the articles causing big company to lose part of their performance bond; (3) they achieve some degree of control over news and media organisations with an incorporated entity in Singapore, since those are the easiest to regulate. The way I see it, it's really hard to define what Singapore-related news is, and 50,000 unique IPs is roughly 0.08% of the IPv4 addresses allocated to Singapore [3]. Considering that most consumer internet services here use dynamic IP allocation, it's not a high threshold to hit. (I'm not a lawyer. I'm also very interested in hearing everyone else's take on this.) [1] http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=0;query=CompId%3A87a8472b-dd54-401a-b027-11e2bb71e5ca;rec=0 http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=... [2] http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=0;query=DocId%3A11156ade-b327-43b6-a9bf-ab07bb7e2307%20%20Status%3Ainforce%20Depth%3A0;rec=0 http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/aol/search/display/view.w3p;page=... [3] data from http://www.nirsoft.net/countryip/sg.html http://www.nirsoft.net/countryip/sg.html
  - salem 13y ago
    My initial reaction on the new regulation was "good luck with that one" but... like you point out, large organizations will likely comply to take down requests or risk getting blocked (for less tech savvy users anyway), and eventually reduce their reporting or self-censor. I-am-not-a-lawyer, but my guess is that organizations outside of Singapore that ignore the law will put their executive staff at risk of prosecution if they ever travel through Singapore (a significant hub of air travel). So the likelihood that this regulation is toothless and can be circumvented via proxies or Tor is low.
patmcguire 13y ago
There are no pictures, btw, for those a work.
TA3142 13y ago
The porn ban is simply just for show, there are tons of other sites that are not blocked. Same goes for this, I don't believe any internet-savvy user actually visits yahoo news or the other state medias(>stomp, hah.) As a programmer, this ban should hardly, if at all, affect you in any way. If you actually care about freedom, then recognize the fact that Singapore has decided to give up some freedom for the sake of peace. Not much terrorism here, is there?

saryant 13y ago

Singapore isn't exactly huge. What's to stop someone from setting up Wimax in Johor Bahru (just across the border in Malaysia) and broadcasting the signal into Singapore?

w1ntermute 13y ago
Wouldn't the Malaysians just shut that down? No point in unnecessarily antagonizing the Singaporean government.
andyking 13y ago
I don't think this is practical - even if the Malaysians allowed it, Johor Bahru is north of Singapore and the main population centre and business district of the island is along the south coast. Signals at such high frequencies simply wouldn't penetrate the extremely dense urban landscape of Singapore other than along a narrow northern coastal strip.
green7ea 13y ago
A signal like that would be very easy to jam for a government if they chose to do so. Encryption (if you can connect to an outside host) or a channel that is harder to jam (satelite, wires, laser beams, etc.) are the only real options.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

elfgoh 13y ago

In related news, someone has setup a tumblr blog to parody this move http://simisaialsolicence.tumblr.com/ http://simisaialsolicence.tumblr.com/

elfgoh 13y ago

Wrong way to make the front page of hackernews sigh

revelation 13y ago

Oops, the cool, tax-saving getaway is a fascist dictatorship. Who could have known.

damoncali 13y ago
Singapore has an interesting government in that it's a single party, rigged system (by US standards) where the leadership is generally very popular. A true "benevolent dictatorship" if you will. On the other hand, I would not want to be anywhere near the place if the ruling party actually loses an election, as freedom is not high on their agenda.
- nubela 13y ago
  It isn't popular. Gerrymandering win seats.
  - damoncali 13y ago
    I overstated that. I should have said "popular enough that nobody does anything about it". I've only been in Singapore once, and found it odd that I felt more "watched" by the government than I did in places like Vietnam, where they really were watching me. Very cool place, but I wouldn't want to live there permanently.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
mseebach 13y ago
It's generally well known that Singapore has no political freedom and only limited freedom of speech. However, financial freedom is in short supply in the world, and Singapore is one of the nicer places that have it. To call Singapore a "fascist dictatorship" is only true in the most literal senses of the words. It's by no means perfect, but Singapore has a much better record on human rights than anyone generally considered "fascist dictatorships". I'm not suggesting they should get a free pass, but it's not exactly Belarus there.

seivan 13y ago

Honestly, with the hate-mongering, the amount of rumours dressed like news on these high-traffic websites flooded with so called keyboard-warriors, I actually welcome something to counter it... however... Unfortunately it will be poorly implemented, and going to look like Chinas firewall. I just wish instead of trying to spend money on silencing most of the bunch of morons who somehow got an audience on lies and rumours (most of the time) - they open up to more transparency and would somehow counter most of the bs articles. They like to call themselves "alternative media" and everyone else are "politically correct corrupt media". Sigh. ps Does anyone remember the series of images comparing George Orwell with someone else regarding the overload of bad/junk information? ds

carbocation 13y ago
> ps Does anyone remember the series of images comparing Orson Wells with someone else regarding the overload of bad/junk information? You're referring to Stuart McMillen's comic-style adaptation of a part of Neil Postman's book, "Amusing Ourselves to Death". Though McMillen has removed his poster at the request of Postman's estate [1], you can still find the comic on the internet [2]. 1 = http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/cartoon-blog/amusing-ourselves-to-death/ http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/blog/cartoon-blog/amusing-ours... 2 = http://www.juxtapoz.com/current/huxley-vs-orwell-in-graphic-form http://www.juxtapoz.com/current/huxley-vs-orwell-in-graphic-...
- seivan 13y ago
  Thank you! I think the best way to do what Orson Welles tried to warn us about, is to "amuse your sheeps to death".
  - carbocation 13y ago
    My pleasure! Just to reduce the mixing of themes, I wanted to comment that amusement is a big part of Huxley's Brave New World, but it really doesn't fit with Orwell's 1984. Postman's thesis is that Huxley, not Orwell, was more prescient in his fears for humanity.
13y ago

coldcode 13y ago

How do they propose to force licenses on people outside of Singapore unless they have a great wall of china system? I guess since this is on HN they will demand a license?

kmfrk 13y ago

Singapore is like a YouTube sketch of what the Apple App Store would be like, if it were a country.

enraged_camel 13y ago
It's funny how some people always find a way to take a stab at Apple, even when commenting on completely unrelated topics.
mdda 13y ago
Love the analogy. And I'm guessing that a fair proportion of the people espousing Freedom of Speech/Politics here are also carrying iPhones, and benefit from the rules-based system of the App Store. The common justification for loving Apple is that their imposition of rules is based on a fantastic focus on making things 'just work'. And that abiding by the rules is a small price to pay. Also, let's not forget that Singapore is a country that's smaller than New York City. Of course, NYC is not as free as many places in the US either...
- ValentineC 13y ago
  Why do you think New York City is not as free as many places in the US? (Just curious.)

outside1234 13y ago

Not a surprise. Singapore is only two or three shades off of mainland China in controlling its citizens.

Zoepfli 13y ago

Any Singaporeans here? What's preventing you from chatting up the government and ask for free elections? They don't seem that evil to me..? You know, tell them "thanks, you did a great job developing this country, but we would like to take it from here and control our own future...". What would happen? Is there any way to do this that would be successful?

EliRivers 13y ago
It's gradually happening. The PAP hold fewer seats now than at any time in Singaporean history.
- ValentineC 13y ago
  I should add that Singapore politics is somewhat complex, and it takes months, if not years, of following Singapore news to have a grasp of what the sentiment on the ground is. Some of the points that I think are relevant to this thread: (1) Much of the older generation and many newly naturalised immigrants feel that the incumbent government brought them to where they are today, and are willing to give up some liberties for economic success. (2) Many of Singapore's constituencies are banded into groups for election and town management purposes. [1] The party in power has the advantage in that Cabinet ministers are members of the majority party appointed by the leader, enjoy a much higher media profile by virtue of their jobs, and are more often than not the heavyweight in a group electoral contest. This makes it difficult for opposing parties to win in a positive publicity contest, since they enjoy far fewer opportunities for positive media coverage. (3) The perception of opposition quality in Singapore is still very negative. While there were opposition candidates with stellar educational and professional backgrounds in the previous election, much of the talent willing to enter politics tend to be courted by the leading party. Also, no opposition party thus far has spoken out against this policy. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Representation_Constituency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_Representation_Constituen...
  - ValentineC 13y ago
    Just to follow up on point #3, one of the opposition parties in Singapore has raised some concerns over the policy: https://www.facebook.com/nicoleseahnsp/posts/494238060647270 https://www.facebook.com/nicoleseahnsp/posts/494238060647270

batgaijin 13y ago

Why now?

lominming 13y ago

This does not make much sense. How do you regulate media talking about you? This essentially means that you want to regulate everyone's freedom of speech. "Online news sites that report regularly on issues relating to Singapore and have significant reach among readers here will require an individual license" This is so vague. If everyone on Facebook and Twitter is talking about Singapore (which are not news sites), would FB and Twitter require a license? It says that it does not apply to blogs. So everything here is ok? Again, blogs/news site/video sites are so vague. News is essentially a content type, not a platform type. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/blogs/directory.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/blogs/directory.html I think this is unrealistic and is not going work in the long run.

elfgoh 13y ago

Satirical article of how the policy came about http://www.breakfastnetwork.sg/?p=4850 http://www.breakfastnetwork.sg/?p=4850