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A bit off topic : I've used Spring some times ago, and it really made me wonder how the full stack would perform on a benchmark against non-JVM frameworks, ev

by bsaul 13y ago

A bit off topic : I've used Spring some times ago, and it really made me wonder how the full stack would perform on a benchmark against non-JVM frameworks, even though the JVM is faster than anything else. This framework really redefined my notion of bloated, although to be fair, i really don't know if the runtime and API part of the framework gave me that feeling, or if it's not mainly due to the extremely painful development environment (aka spring sts : one JVM for the IDE, one JVM for the bean execution, and one virtualization layer on top of the web server thanks to VMWare vFabric...). In the end, it took me more than 5 minutes to boot STS and get the server run my code, on my fairly recent 4G of RAM MBP.

deleted 13y ago
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- jomohke 13y ago
  Out of interest, what stack are you running on? The Spring apps I've worked with in the past (plain Tomcat+Spring) never took more than a few seconds to boot (and most changes could be hot deployed without a restart).
  - fmstephe 13y ago
    Sorry, I just deleted the parent that you replied too. I felt it was too full of emotion and lacked useful content. Currently I am working on Spring+Tomcat. Previously we were working on weblogic + spring, that's where the ~50% CPU time measurement came from. The project where I found myself the most frustrated with Spring was in a simple console app, where Spring became the server container. The application was more or less empty, having only a few database connections, and it took probably about 10 seconds to boot up. I really remember thinking "this is as fast as it will ever be" it only got slower from then on.
mtrimpe 13y ago
Spring is just an XML-based DSL that wires objects together and applies AOP aspects to them. Your bad experience was with a Spring-branded Eclipse; the open-source IDE that's so slow and bloated Google preferred switching to a proprietary competitor (IntelliJ) for their latest version of the Android IDE.
- bsaul 13y ago
  Yes, but I believe sfjailbird is also right (see comment below) : there's also a vicious "enterprise" culture surrounding that technology that really encourages people to keep going in that direction.
  - fmstephe 13y ago
    I think your characterisation of the enterprise culture as vicious isn't too far off the mark. :)
chris_wot 13y ago
STS is an IDE, it's not the Spring Framework. Your comparing apples with oranges here...
brown9-2 13y ago
You can find some simple benchmarks here: http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ I would not judge Spring the Framework by Spring the IDE (which is a bunch of plugins on top of Eclipse). The Spring integration in IntelliJ is great.

by bsaul 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

jomohke 13y ago
Out of interest, what stack are you running on? The Spring apps I've worked with in the past (plain Tomcat+Spring) never took more than a few seconds to boot (and most changes could be hot deployed without a restart).
- fmstephe 13y ago
  Sorry, I just deleted the parent that you replied too. I felt it was too full of emotion and lacked useful content. Currently I am working on Spring+Tomcat. Previously we were working on weblogic + spring, that's where the ~50% CPU time measurement came from. The project where I found myself the most frustrated with Spring was in a simple console app, where Spring became the server container. The application was more or less empty, having only a few database connections, and it took probably about 10 seconds to boot up. I really remember thinking "this is as fast as it will ever be" it only got slower from then on.

mtrimpe 13y ago

Spring is just an XML-based DSL that wires objects together and applies AOP aspects to them. Your bad experience was with a Spring-branded Eclipse; the open-source IDE that's so slow and bloated Google preferred switching to a proprietary competitor (IntelliJ) for their latest version of the Android IDE.

bsaul 13y ago
Yes, but I believe sfjailbird is also right (see comment below) : there's also a vicious "enterprise" culture surrounding that technology that really encourages people to keep going in that direction.
- fmstephe 13y ago
  I think your characterisation of the enterprise culture as vicious isn't too far off the mark. :)

chris_wot 13y ago

STS is an IDE, it's not the Spring Framework. Your comparing apples with oranges here...

brown9-2 13y ago

You can find some simple benchmarks here: http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ I would not judge Spring the Framework by Spring the IDE (which is a bunch of plugins on top of Eclipse). The Spring integration in IntelliJ is great.