5 ms·

In my own definition open source means "work together, be open about your intentions, contribute".

by buster 13y ago

nknighthb 13y ago
Lennart works almost alone, his "open intentions" are to explicitly not support the wider open source community (like non-Linux kernels and non-GNOME desktops), and he "contributes" to virtually nothing but his own inventions of questionable technical merit. Why you think Canonical is any worse eludes me.
- mseepgood 13y ago
  > Lennart works almost alone He does not. Systemd has over 370 individual contributors, 15 other people have commit powers beside him. Myth 27: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    Thank you, I've read Lennart's shameless lies on this and many other matters. The truth in this particular case was revealed by Steve Langasek in the recent debian-devel thread[1]. Almost 80% of the systemd code is by Lennart. [1]http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01365.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01365.html
    - bkor 13y ago
      You said he mostly works alone. That's something different than amount of code. "Work alone" implies amount of people, not amount of code. Obviously he started systemd and works full time on it. Then loads of other people work on it as well, but not nearly the same amount as he does. Kind of sad to start name calling when you're not clear about this yourself.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        There are no other significant contributors. I consider that "working mostly alone".
        bkor 13y ago
        Nope, that is changing the wording to suit yourself. He started the project and is able to work full time on this. A Mageia packager contributed some very good patches towards systemd. He's not in the email on debian-devel, while he monitors systemd , works with Lennart and others, etc. See his other email: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01367.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01367.html Our Mageia packager is not included. One of the patches he wrote: During the development of the journal he fixed a really important journal memory bug. Took a lot of effort to figure out, etc. But the arbitrary '100 patches' is introduced. Seems rebuttal is pretty biased. PS: Upstart has had 17 contributors. Systemd has 15 people with commit access. Systemd seems way more viable.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        When you've reduced yourself to arguing whether 80% is "mostly" or not, perhaps it's time to reconsider your position? In any case, I won't be responding to you anymore.
    - buster 13y ago
      That's just not true, you are talking bullshit here. You can look into the git repository yourself and see who contributed most lines. And it was Kay Sievers, not even Lennart Poettering. edit: @nknight followup: Did you even look into git for yourself? Even with excluding udev the top contributors are: 613 Fabiano Fidêncio 812 Lukas Nykryn 929 Auke Kok 1138 Simon McVittie 1149 Marc-Antoine Perennou 2125 Dan Horák 2215 Thomas Bächler 3619 Harald Hoyer 7924 Michael Biebl 18850 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek 30226 Tomasz Torcz 168803 Kay Sievers 170196 Lennart Poettering On what planet is that "all by Lennart"?!
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        Did you read the link? Kay Sievers wrote udev, which Lennart swallowed into systemd and proceeded to make unusable outside his own pet configurations. Exclude the pre-existing udev, which was and should have remained a separate project, and it's all Lennart.
        ldng 13y ago
        It feels like you are implying Kay didn't work with Lennart. it's simply not true. The systemd mailling list was created in May 2010 and Kay was already registered and posting there. Check the archives. They were working on systemd from the start in a RedHat-Suse joint effort. Also udev merge into systemd would have not happened without Kay's consent. And I don't understand why people get downvoted just beacuse they correct you. [Edit] Typos
        jeltz 13y ago
        I did not downvote, but my guess is because you obviously did not read the email linked to which showed the numbers with udev excluded. udev and systemd are two separate projects who happen to live in the same repository (nothing wrong with that!) so you have to remember to exclude udev when looking at contributors for systemd.
        13y ago
- bkor 13y ago
  Explicitly not support other desktops? That's wrong, systemd is supported by various desktops. In any case systemd is different level, a desktop should add support, not the other way around. Obviously best if a systemd developer helps out with that effort in a desktop, but suggesting systemd project needs to have knowledge/support for desktops is crazy. It doesn't support GNOME, GNOME has support for systemd!
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    > systemd is supported by various desktops Various desktops were forced to adapt to systemd's insanities. This is different from systemd attempting to be a good citizen and support existing mechanisms.
    - bkor 13y ago
      Just because I pointed out flaws in your arguments doesn't make it ok to respond like this. Please refute what I said based on clear references and without name calling such as "insanities". E.g. you said: "forced": prove it. Also, you didn't back up your previous claims, just made different claims.
- buster 13y ago
  I don't see anything wrong with a single developer concentrating on a few projects? How many developers do you know that make significant contributions to many different projects?! Do you have a source for you claim that lennarts explicitely not supports non-Gnome? I think it is pretty clear that he doesn't support non-Linux, but why is that wrong? Looking into the git contributions he is not even the one who contributed most! http://pastebin.com/bkUs3jXa http://pastebin.com/bkUs3jXa On the other hand: What i don't like about Canonical is their latest move to first pretend to support Wayland and then mysteriously presenting Mir all the while spreading bullshit about how Wayland is not good enough.
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    > I don't see anything wrong with a single developer concentrating on a few projects? Neither would I, if they were projects worth concentrating on or of any meaningful long-term value to the community. > I think it is pretty clear that he doesn't support non-Linux, but why is that wrong? systemd invites/demands dependencies on its own, unique interfaces that do not and will not exist outside Linux. This retards progress of other projects in supporting non-Linux systems. Lennart has actively encouraged this: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-May/msg00427.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-May/... > What i don't like about Canonical is their latest move to first pretend to support Wayland and then mysteriously presenting Mir all the while spreading bullshit about how Wayland is not good enough. Red Hat began to support Upstart before switching to their in-house systemd and spreading bullshit about how Upstart is not good enough. Why is it OK when Red Hat tries to come up with new things but not Canonical? Do you work for one of these companies? > Looking into the git contributions he is not even the one who contributed most! See my other post downthread. You are incorrect.
    - buster 13y ago
      No, not working for any of them. See my comment that it's still incorrect saying Lennart does all the work. You can easily check the git yourself, go ahead.
      - 13y ago

In my own definition open source means "work together, be open about your intentions, contribute".

by buster 13y ago

In my own definition open source means "work together, be open about your intentions, contribute".

Lennart works almost alone, his "open intentions" are to explicitly not support the wider open source community (like non-Linux kernels and non-GNOME desktops), and he "contributes" to virtually nothing but his own inventions of questionable technical merit. Why you think Canonical is any worse eludes me.

mseepgood 13y ago
> Lennart works almost alone He does not. Systemd has over 370 individual contributors, 15 other people have commit powers beside him. Myth 27: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
- nknighthb 13y ago
  Thank you, I've read Lennart's shameless lies on this and many other matters. The truth in this particular case was revealed by Steve Langasek in the recent debian-devel thread[1]. Almost 80% of the systemd code is by Lennart. [1]http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01365.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01365.html
  - bkor 13y ago
    You said he mostly works alone. That's something different than amount of code. "Work alone" implies amount of people, not amount of code. Obviously he started systemd and works full time on it. Then loads of other people work on it as well, but not nearly the same amount as he does. Kind of sad to start name calling when you're not clear about this yourself.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      There are no other significant contributors. I consider that "working mostly alone".
      - bkor 13y ago
        Nope, that is changing the wording to suit yourself. He started the project and is able to work full time on this. A Mageia packager contributed some very good patches towards systemd. He's not in the email on debian-devel, while he monitors systemd , works with Lennart and others, etc. See his other email: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01367.html http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/05/msg01367.html Our Mageia packager is not included. One of the patches he wrote: During the development of the journal he fixed a really important journal memory bug. Took a lot of effort to figure out, etc. But the arbitrary '100 patches' is introduced. Seems rebuttal is pretty biased. PS: Upstart has had 17 contributors. Systemd has 15 people with commit access. Systemd seems way more viable.
        nknighthb 13y ago
        When you've reduced yourself to arguing whether 80% is "mostly" or not, perhaps it's time to reconsider your position? In any case, I won't be responding to you anymore.
  - buster 13y ago
    That's just not true, you are talking bullshit here. You can look into the git repository yourself and see who contributed most lines. And it was Kay Sievers, not even Lennart Poettering. edit: @nknight followup: Did you even look into git for yourself? Even with excluding udev the top contributors are: 613 Fabiano Fidêncio 812 Lukas Nykryn 929 Auke Kok 1138 Simon McVittie 1149 Marc-Antoine Perennou 2125 Dan Horák 2215 Thomas Bächler 3619 Harald Hoyer 7924 Michael Biebl 18850 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek 30226 Tomasz Torcz 168803 Kay Sievers 170196 Lennart Poettering On what planet is that "all by Lennart"?!
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      Did you read the link? Kay Sievers wrote udev, which Lennart swallowed into systemd and proceeded to make unusable outside his own pet configurations. Exclude the pre-existing udev, which was and should have remained a separate project, and it's all Lennart.
      - ldng 13y ago
        It feels like you are implying Kay didn't work with Lennart. it's simply not true. The systemd mailling list was created in May 2010 and Kay was already registered and posting there. Check the archives. They were working on systemd from the start in a RedHat-Suse joint effort. Also udev merge into systemd would have not happened without Kay's consent. And I don't understand why people get downvoted just beacuse they correct you. [Edit] Typos
        jeltz 13y ago
        I did not downvote, but my guess is because you obviously did not read the email linked to which showed the numbers with udev excluded. udev and systemd are two separate projects who happen to live in the same repository (nothing wrong with that!) so you have to remember to exclude udev when looking at contributors for systemd.
        13y ago
bkor 13y ago
Explicitly not support other desktops? That's wrong, systemd is supported by various desktops. In any case systemd is different level, a desktop should add support, not the other way around. Obviously best if a systemd developer helps out with that effort in a desktop, but suggesting systemd project needs to have knowledge/support for desktops is crazy. It doesn't support GNOME, GNOME has support for systemd!
- nknighthb 13y ago
  > systemd is supported by various desktops Various desktops were forced to adapt to systemd's insanities. This is different from systemd attempting to be a good citizen and support existing mechanisms.
  - bkor 13y ago
    Just because I pointed out flaws in your arguments doesn't make it ok to respond like this. Please refute what I said based on clear references and without name calling such as "insanities". E.g. you said: "forced": prove it. Also, you didn't back up your previous claims, just made different claims.
buster 13y ago
I don't see anything wrong with a single developer concentrating on a few projects? How many developers do you know that make significant contributions to many different projects?! Do you have a source for you claim that lennarts explicitely not supports non-Gnome? I think it is pretty clear that he doesn't support non-Linux, but why is that wrong? Looking into the git contributions he is not even the one who contributed most! http://pastebin.com/bkUs3jXa http://pastebin.com/bkUs3jXa On the other hand: What i don't like about Canonical is their latest move to first pretend to support Wayland and then mysteriously presenting Mir all the while spreading bullshit about how Wayland is not good enough.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  > I don't see anything wrong with a single developer concentrating on a few projects? Neither would I, if they were projects worth concentrating on or of any meaningful long-term value to the community. > I think it is pretty clear that he doesn't support non-Linux, but why is that wrong? systemd invites/demands dependencies on its own, unique interfaces that do not and will not exist outside Linux. This retards progress of other projects in supporting non-Linux systems. Lennart has actively encouraged this: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-May/msg00427.html https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2011-May/... > What i don't like about Canonical is their latest move to first pretend to support Wayland and then mysteriously presenting Mir all the while spreading bullshit about how Wayland is not good enough. Red Hat began to support Upstart before switching to their in-house systemd and spreading bullshit about how Upstart is not good enough. Why is it OK when Red Hat tries to come up with new things but not Canonical? Do you work for one of these companies? > Looking into the git contributions he is not even the one who contributed most! See my other post downthread. You are incorrect.
  - buster 13y ago
    No, not working for any of them. See my comment that it's still incorrect saying Lennart does all the work. You can easily check the git yourself, go ahead.
    - 13y ago