4 ms·

Sony is losing a lot in the TV market, same as Panasonic. I am not sure you can "fix" the TV market, since the TV's role is still changing, and hardware innovat

by Narretz 13y ago

Sony is losing a lot in the TV market, same as Panasonic. I am not sure you can "fix" the TV market, since the TV's role is still changing, and hardware innovations become less and less important, so there's no way to go back to the boom of early LCD. I personally would like to have a "dumb" instead of a "Smart" TV, basically just a huge display to which I can hook my PC or whatever box I want. But it'll take some years in which the big guys will desperately try to keep the old ways alive. e: previous version of this comment said Sony's Imaging division was quite healthy, while they are losing money too. But as mirrorless is a new market, I guess it's worth to lose money to establish a good market position.

antimagic 13y ago
Yes, exactly. I would be much happier if Sony, Samsung et al focused on making screens with low-latency, better sound, better image treatment etc instead of trying to hook me up to YouTube with a poorly designed widget that I would never touch in a million years. Latency on screens today is high enough, even in gaming mode, that even the slightest extra latency can kill some applications. I'm working on a karaoke game at the moment, and that latency is absolutely killing me.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  > I would be much happier I think us (techies) are still in the minority here. My parents love having YouTube on their TV. With all the junk I've bought them during christmas visits, they have a bunch of ways of watching YouTube on their TV: on the Sony Blu-ray/surround system, on the AppleTV, on their iPhones/iPads via AirPlay, or on their MacBooks with AirPlay or an HDMI cable. They've ended up gravitating toward the surround system menus, since it needs the least amount of "fiddling". If the TV had it built in I'm sure they'd love that.
  - antimagic 13y ago
    I buy toys for my parents too - but they are completely hooked on the iPad / AppleTV combination. It appears to be the simplicity / flexibility sweet spot for them. They just needed to get used to switching the source of the TV. Honest question, do you really think that your parents would prefer the TV youtube app? I mean youtube is all about typing in a search term to find a video, or following a link that someone sent you, and a TV remote control is just not a good interface experience for either of those tasks (typing sucks, and you don't have links, because it's a TV not a browser). I should point out that I do set top boxes for a living, and I just can't see TVs having a future as anything other than a dumb screen with an AirPlay- / Miracast-type streaming solution bolted on to it. Maybe with some really heavy duty voice input work, or something along those lines, but none of the manufacturers seem to be heading in that direction. And of course there is the fact that the panel is expensive, and tends to be a longterm purchase. The rest of the system is rapidly evolving, and I'd rather have to buy a new AppleTV for $100 every 3 years than have to buy a new LCD panel for $1000 every 3 years to have the latest hotness. Maybe things will settle down in 10 years or so, but until then I don't think I'm unusual in wanting my TV just to be the best panel possible and leaving the content management to other boxes.
    - kalleboo 13y ago
      I've shown them the iPad/YouTube combo and I always use it when I'm there. My dad uses BBC iPlayer for Formula 1 as well, so they're not averse to using the iPad+AirPlay. But they still gravitate to the Sony for YouTube. I'll ask them why next time I visit. I think one reason may be because it autoplays the next video in the search results, so they can search for, "Border Police" and just watch a million episodes in a row. Maybe they just have an inhuman tolerance for T9 input.
gradstudent 13y ago
Would you really buy a separate Roku or whatever if your TV had one already built in? Moreover, what if you could program your TV as easily as your Roku? This seems, to me at least, a pretty compelling proposition. Stick a PC in my TV as soon as possible, please!
- technoslut 13y ago
  I'd prefer the box. It's cheaper to replace than a TV which would allow me to upgrade the hardware more frequently for new features. The new Xbox has shown that a box can take over typical functional like the channel guide and changing stations.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    What we need are better protocols to integrate boxes into the TV. HDMI CEC goes a bit (maps TV remote arrow keys etc), but to make boxes usable for normal people we need stuff like automatically renaming "HDMI1" to "Roku box".
- Terretta 13y ago
  > Would you really buy a separate Roku or whatever if your TV had one already built in? Yes, because the TV is a couple years old and doesn't run today's apps, even though it has the right number of pixels which haven't changed in a decade. > Stick a PC in my TV as soon as possible, please! No. Because the pace of development in screens is notably less than the pace of development in devices, and the cost of building (a probably underpowered) PC into the TV would end up being a significant portion of the purchase price without much benefit. AirPlay changes the equation. Use whatever latest personal device you have, tap a button to see it on the TV. It's redundant to have multiple apps with multiple UIs and preferences scattered across multiple devices, when the tech exists today to have a primary personal device that you could look at anywhere. TVs need to get out of the app business, just display HDMI + AirPlay (works from Android using Twonky Beam, iMedia Share, PlayTo, etc.), and focus back on visual quality.
  - kalleboo 13y ago

by Narretz 13y ago

antimagic 13y ago

Yes, exactly. I would be much happier if Sony, Samsung et al focused on making screens with low-latency, better sound, better image treatment etc instead of trying to hook me up to YouTube with a poorly designed widget that I would never touch in a million years. Latency on screens today is high enough, even in gaming mode, that even the slightest extra latency can kill some applications. I'm working on a karaoke game at the moment, and that latency is absolutely killing me.

kalleboo 13y ago
> I would be much happier I think us (techies) are still in the minority here. My parents love having YouTube on their TV. With all the junk I've bought them during christmas visits, they have a bunch of ways of watching YouTube on their TV: on the Sony Blu-ray/surround system, on the AppleTV, on their iPhones/iPads via AirPlay, or on their MacBooks with AirPlay or an HDMI cable. They've ended up gravitating toward the surround system menus, since it needs the least amount of "fiddling". If the TV had it built in I'm sure they'd love that.
- antimagic 13y ago
  I buy toys for my parents too - but they are completely hooked on the iPad / AppleTV combination. It appears to be the simplicity / flexibility sweet spot for them. They just needed to get used to switching the source of the TV. Honest question, do you really think that your parents would prefer the TV youtube app? I mean youtube is all about typing in a search term to find a video, or following a link that someone sent you, and a TV remote control is just not a good interface experience for either of those tasks (typing sucks, and you don't have links, because it's a TV not a browser). I should point out that I do set top boxes for a living, and I just can't see TVs having a future as anything other than a dumb screen with an AirPlay- / Miracast-type streaming solution bolted on to it. Maybe with some really heavy duty voice input work, or something along those lines, but none of the manufacturers seem to be heading in that direction. And of course there is the fact that the panel is expensive, and tends to be a longterm purchase. The rest of the system is rapidly evolving, and I'd rather have to buy a new AppleTV for $100 every 3 years than have to buy a new LCD panel for $1000 every 3 years to have the latest hotness. Maybe things will settle down in 10 years or so, but until then I don't think I'm unusual in wanting my TV just to be the best panel possible and leaving the content management to other boxes.
  - kalleboo 13y ago
    I've shown them the iPad/YouTube combo and I always use it when I'm there. My dad uses BBC iPlayer for Formula 1 as well, so they're not averse to using the iPad+AirPlay. But they still gravitate to the Sony for YouTube. I'll ask them why next time I visit. I think one reason may be because it autoplays the next video in the search results, so they can search for, "Border Police" and just watch a million episodes in a row. Maybe they just have an inhuman tolerance for T9 input.

gradstudent 13y ago

Would you really buy a separate Roku or whatever if your TV had one already built in? Moreover, what if you could program your TV as easily as your Roku? This seems, to me at least, a pretty compelling proposition. Stick a PC in my TV as soon as possible, please!

technoslut 13y ago
I'd prefer the box. It's cheaper to replace than a TV which would allow me to upgrade the hardware more frequently for new features. The new Xbox has shown that a box can take over typical functional like the channel guide and changing stations.
- kalleboo 13y ago
  What we need are better protocols to integrate boxes into the TV. HDMI CEC goes a bit (maps TV remote arrow keys etc), but to make boxes usable for normal people we need stuff like automatically renaming "HDMI1" to "Roku box".
Terretta 13y ago
> Would you really buy a separate Roku or whatever if your TV had one already built in? Yes, because the TV is a couple years old and doesn't run today's apps, even though it has the right number of pixels which haven't changed in a decade. > Stick a PC in my TV as soon as possible, please! No. Because the pace of development in screens is notably less than the pace of development in devices, and the cost of building (a probably underpowered) PC into the TV would end up being a significant portion of the purchase price without much benefit. AirPlay changes the equation. Use whatever latest personal device you have, tap a button to see it on the TV. It's redundant to have multiple apps with multiple UIs and preferences scattered across multiple devices, when the tech exists today to have a primary personal device that you could look at anywhere. TVs need to get out of the app business, just display HDMI + AirPlay (works from Android using Twonky Beam, iMedia Share, PlayTo, etc.), and focus back on visual quality.
- kalleboo 13y ago