4 ms·

(This is more of a response to several of the comments posted so far.) I'd like to come to the defense of low-cost living but also acknowledge that (expensive)

(This is more of a response to several of the comments posted so far.) I'd like to come to the defense of low-cost living but also acknowledge that (expensive) city living has its obvious pluses that people already in SV might be taking for granted. I created a low-cost living situation while living in a big (old/pretty) house in New Hampshire by renting out all of the rooms to friends. My rent is "free" and utilities are split 5 ways ($50 per person in summer, $150 in winter. Heating the house is expensive). If you can stand living with other people, I think this is one of the better ways to bootstrap "new job out of college" money instead of putting a down-payment on a smaller home that might not bring in any cash. The house just so happens to be the house I grew up in, which my father sold in 2005 and foreclosed on in 2010 (ultra-conveniently, the year I graduated from college). It needed lots of work, so instead of trying to (re)sell it for cheap I made a deal to fix it up while living in it for reduced rent. Three friends living there cover the rent. The house may be worth more in the future than current rates, and certainly has its share of things-needing-fixing, and my friends pay below-market rent rates, so it seems like a good deal for everyone involved. If I did not have such a house, I think I'd try to buy one and do the same thing. It's nice to have some communal society around after college. (I've planned other things in my life to try to re-create that, too, because I think its important and under-acknowledged.) ~~~ It's worth noting that there are downsides to living in a lower-cost-than-SV/Major City area. I don't have any programmer friends in real life outside of the people at my work (a very tiny company, and no one is remotely near my age (24)). That becomes a little problematic. I'm reminded of a quote from John le Carre: > Coming home from very lonely places, all of us go a little mad: whether from great personal success, or just an all-night drive, we are the sole survivors of a world no one else has ever seen. It's hard to talk about programming things and I think that's bad. I'm not around as many career-driven people as I'd like to be either and I think that's bad too. I end up spending a lot of time on the internet to talk about those areas of my interest. (And especially HN: I have a lot of affection for the repeated names in this place, even if we all tend to be a tad too negative. Consistent commentors still make a community and I'm thankful for that. Really.) So it's a good setup. And while my salary isn't amazing it's more than enough for my area, and I love my walkable, lovable hometown in New Hampshire. But there's certainly something to be said for cities and high cost areas. I miss being around as many smart people as there were in college. ~~~ On a note actually related to the article, when I drove around western NY - went to college at RPI, near Albany and headed west for Craigslist ventures - the places I saw just seemed surreal. Some parts of western NY, if you were just dropped there with no context, you'd think to yourself "A war must have happened here maybe 30 years ago". Strange levels of decay and halted-/de- construction

cmbaus 13y ago
I think I've seen your posts on this topic here before. I actually lived in a shared housing situation in a large victorian mansion in Epping, NH in my 20s. I really enjoyed it. I wanted to do the same thing when I moved to Tahoe as the owner, but couldn't afford a house big enough to make it work out. If I was in my 20s and working in an area as engineer with a reasonable cost of living, I would seriously consider this exact thing. When you are just out of school it is actually nice to be able to share a living space and it makes economic sense.
- xyzzy123 13y ago
  Where I come from, it's so common we have a word for it: flatting. Almost everybody lives in flats for at least the first few years after leaving home, and often much longer.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
What I find interesting is that communal living is not new (it has all the benefits you describe) but there hasn't been more of it recently. Historically this has been a common way for artists to get by and practice their skills. Given how much programming and design is artistic in nature I'm surprised there aren't more such communes these days.
- acgourley 13y ago
  Maybe broadcast tools (like craigslist) and reputation tools (like social networks) make it a lot easier for people to spontaneously organize shared living situations. This makes it so easy to join or form 4-5 person cells to share a house that it takes out the demand for a larger and more formal commune. Maybe.
  - xyzzy123 13y ago
    I'm finding these posts kind of surreal, I had no idea shared living was NOT the default in many places. I posted down a bit re: flatting, but in NZ it's a very common living arrangement for people in their 20s. The standard progression is: parents -> flatting -> house The way it goes is, first ask all your friends if they knew of a room going, failing that, see if you can find some friends to organise a lease with ("founding" a flat). As a last resort, you crack open the newspaper to the "flatmates wanted" section and troop around houses. This has been replaced by various web sites but they're not really social - they just replaced the newspaper. I think this is where you might have room to innovate - even in established markets like the NZ, the UK and Australia. Being able to cyberstalk your prospective flatmates a little would be really handy and could save a lot of unneccesary travel. Usually there's a mini interview where the flatmates figure out if they can live with you, and you see if you could live with them. This can lead to some hilarious situations which serve to underline how utterly different people can be. One sticking point is that the most successful flats never have to advertise rooms. There will always be a friend of a friend who is willing to move in.

cmbaus 13y ago

I think I've seen your posts on this topic here before. I actually lived in a shared housing situation in a large victorian mansion in Epping, NH in my 20s. I really enjoyed it. I wanted to do the same thing when I moved to Tahoe as the owner, but couldn't afford a house big enough to make it work out. If I was in my 20s and working in an area as engineer with a reasonable cost of living, I would seriously consider this exact thing. When you are just out of school it is actually nice to be able to share a living space and it makes economic sense.

xyzzy123 13y ago
Where I come from, it's so common we have a word for it: flatting. Almost everybody lives in flats for at least the first few years after leaving home, and often much longer.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

What I find interesting is that communal living is not new (it has all the benefits you describe) but there hasn't been more of it recently. Historically this has been a common way for artists to get by and practice their skills. Given how much programming and design is artistic in nature I'm surprised there aren't more such communes these days.

acgourley 13y ago
Maybe broadcast tools (like craigslist) and reputation tools (like social networks) make it a lot easier for people to spontaneously organize shared living situations. This makes it so easy to join or form 4-5 person cells to share a house that it takes out the demand for a larger and more formal commune. Maybe.
- xyzzy123 13y ago
  I'm finding these posts kind of surreal, I had no idea shared living was NOT the default in many places. I posted down a bit re: flatting, but in NZ it's a very common living arrangement for people in their 20s. The standard progression is: parents -> flatting -> house The way it goes is, first ask all your friends if they knew of a room going, failing that, see if you can find some friends to organise a lease with ("founding" a flat). As a last resort, you crack open the newspaper to the "flatmates wanted" section and troop around houses. This has been replaced by various web sites but they're not really social - they just replaced the newspaper. I think this is where you might have room to innovate - even in established markets like the NZ, the UK and Australia. Being able to cyberstalk your prospective flatmates a little would be really handy and could save a lot of unneccesary travel. Usually there's a mini interview where the flatmates figure out if they can live with you, and you see if you could live with them. This can lead to some hilarious situations which serve to underline how utterly different people can be. One sticking point is that the most successful flats never have to advertise rooms. There will always be a friend of a friend who is willing to move in.