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The comments also apply a lot to Iran and Iraq If you think Salafist Afghanistan, Kohmeinist Iran and Baathist Iraq had anything in common then you know jack s

by ucee054 13y ago

The comments also apply a lot to Iran and Iraq If you think Salafist Afghanistan, Kohmeinist Iran and Baathist Iraq had anything in common then you know jack shit. That's like comparing Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and the US colonies in Cotton Mather's time, sticking them all into one big pot because they are all "Christian". Idiocy.

deleted 13y ago
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graycat 13y ago
You miss the point: It's not that all the versions of Islam and Islamic governments are alike. Instead, it's that in the more backward Islamic countries, Islam is essentially all the culture there is. And Islam is not just a religion but is also into law, government, education, etc. So, in such a country, Islam is about all the culture there is and can block, actively or just passively by default, essentially all progress. As you point out, there are still some differences. But what is in common is that Islam, in whatever flavors, is so strong, and not just a religion, and essentially all the culture there is, is able to block progress. Look, to be more clear, the problem is not just Islam. Instead, the Roman Catholics ran everything in Western Europe for hundreds of years, were corrupt, blocked progress, and finally Europe got out of it, after religious wars, etc. The point is not that Islam is a bad religion, even if it is. Instead the point is that to run a good society, need a good culture, and that culture needs to come from much more than just some religious clerics. A religious state, Roman Catholic, Islamic, or anything else, just will not be a successful state. In the countries where Islam is the only culture, Islam needs to shrink back to being just a religion, hopefully one of several, and let the culture have other inputs besides just religion. Got it now?
- ucee054 13y ago
  Got it now? Don't patronize me. You wrote a screed justifying bombing the hell out of civilians because you didn't like their speech. Somewhere in your moral bankruptcy, you wrote So, in an Islamic country, take away Islam, and there's no culture at all and, then, just chaos This was your characterization of Iran and Iraq, which showed that you don't know jack. It also won't work for Turkey or Malaysia. By the way, "nation building" failed in Germany as well, largely because Americans are hypocrites who SAY "nation building" and DO war profiteering, corruption and vindictiveness. The result was Adolf Hitler. So the US had to fight another World War with Germany, and after getting their asses kicked so badly by the Axis, and coming close to losing in several ways, the US decided in 1945 to do actual nation building in half good faith, hence the Marshall Plan. This time round, it succeeded in Germany and Japan. Unfortunately, the US forgot this lesson by 9/11, so when it came to Iraq and Afghanistan, they went back to "nation building" by Blackwater XE and Halliburton, with predictable results.

by ucee054 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

graycat 13y ago

You miss the point: It's not that all the versions of Islam and Islamic governments are alike. Instead, it's that in the more backward Islamic countries, Islam is essentially all the culture there is. And Islam is not just a religion but is also into law, government, education, etc. So, in such a country, Islam is about all the culture there is and can block, actively or just passively by default, essentially all progress. As you point out, there are still some differences. But what is in common is that Islam, in whatever flavors, is so strong, and not just a religion, and essentially all the culture there is, is able to block progress. Look, to be more clear, the problem is not just Islam. Instead, the Roman Catholics ran everything in Western Europe for hundreds of years, were corrupt, blocked progress, and finally Europe got out of it, after religious wars, etc. The point is not that Islam is a bad religion, even if it is. Instead the point is that to run a good society, need a good culture, and that culture needs to come from much more than just some religious clerics. A religious state, Roman Catholic, Islamic, or anything else, just will not be a successful state. In the countries where Islam is the only culture, Islam needs to shrink back to being just a religion, hopefully one of several, and let the culture have other inputs besides just religion. Got it now?

ucee054 13y ago
Got it now? Don't patronize me. You wrote a screed justifying bombing the hell out of civilians because you didn't like their speech. Somewhere in your moral bankruptcy, you wrote So, in an Islamic country, take away Islam, and there's no culture at all and, then, just chaos This was your characterization of Iran and Iraq, which showed that you don't know jack. It also won't work for Turkey or Malaysia. By the way, "nation building" failed in Germany as well, largely because Americans are hypocrites who SAY "nation building" and DO war profiteering, corruption and vindictiveness. The result was Adolf Hitler. So the US had to fight another World War with Germany, and after getting their asses kicked so badly by the Axis, and coming close to losing in several ways, the US decided in 1945 to do actual nation building in half good faith, hence the Marshall Plan. This time round, it succeeded in Germany and Japan. Unfortunately, the US forgot this lesson by 9/11, so when it came to Iraq and Afghanistan, they went back to "nation building" by Blackwater XE and Halliburton, with predictable results.