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I am confused as to exactly what Crate.io does differently to PyPi. Yes, it is a better web interface, but what are the actual improvements over PyPi? Why would

by flexd 13y ago

I am confused as to exactly what Crate.io does differently to PyPi. Yes, it is a better web interface, but what are the actual improvements over PyPi? Why would we use it? Wouldn't it be better for the PyPi website to get a revamp? As it is now the front page of PyPi https://pypi.python.org/pypi https://pypi.python.org/pypi gives us more information than the front page of Crate. I like that it's quick, PyPi is a bit slow for me at the moment. I also like the info page for a specific package (https://crate.io/packages/docopt/#description https://crate.io/packages/docopt/#description), it's nice and informative, quite easy to read but I do not like that you have to click the info tab to see the classifiers (which python versions it works with, among other things). What is the key arguments and features that should make us want to use Crate.io over PyPi? I mostly interface with PyPi via pip on the commandline. Is crate supposed to be a drop-in replacement? Can we just make pip work against a different base url? Will you launch your own pip replacement? How is Crate.io better than the current PyPi? The website does not mention any of this, it barely contains any text. </ramble>, I've just wrote up a few of the questions I had while checking it out, sorry if it's a bit incoherent :-)

_wmd 13y ago
It implements full text search without repeated strcmp() over half a gigabyte of strings, so search completes in reasonable time. Compare that to PyPi which does exactly what I described, and even during off peak periods, searches can sometimes take up to 20 seconds
- srinidhiv 13y ago
  Why not just fork the pypi code and fix it, then?
  - donaldstufft 13y ago
    Have you looked at the PyPI codebase? ;) The real answer is I have. I'm a PyPI administrator now and have been enacting a lot of these benefits on PyPI itself. Just this weekend I've deployed a CDN in front of all of PyPI so that package downloads have sped up by 1-3 orders of magnitude depending on location. Previously I had pushed hard for getting a real valid and trusted SSL certificate on PyPI, moving the user provided html/js from packages.python.org to pythonhosted.org in order to prevent CSRF fixation attacks. Like I said Crate is an experiment. One that has enabled me to push for good changes in PyPI.
    - meowface 13y ago
      I think you're doing good work here, and I agree that PyPI is quite a bit of a mess. One little suggestion/question, though. CPAN: Comprehensive Perl Archive Network Rubygems: (self-explanatory) PyPI: Python Package Index Crate.io: Crate? Crate.io? Nothing about the name or any part of the domain really mentions Python, or Python packages or libraries. It's not a bad name, but it doesn't really seem like a name for a large Python package index. What's the exact rationale behind the naming?
      - donaldstufft 13y ago
        Crate is a synonym for Package and I liked the name :)
        jl6 13y ago
        I believe a krait is a kind of snake if you want to go for that angle.
        antihero 13y ago
        The only reason I know this is due to playing Elite II.
        jl6 13y ago
        Ditto :-) There was a Python freighter too!
        antihero 13y ago
        IIRC that was actually the best (although not the biggest).
        lightcatcher 13y ago
        If you aren't aware, packages in the Rust programming language are called crates.
- orf 13y ago
  Really? Why do they strcmp() over half a gb of strings, that seems pretty stupid and inefficient.
donaldstufft 13y ago
Crate is currently an experiment of mine into what a better package system would look like. It can be used as a drop in replacement against PyPI using the --index-url option of pip. (pip install --index-url=https://simple.crate.io/ https://simple.crate.io/) It has a number of security and speed improvements over PyPI some of which I've contributed back to or pushed for PyPI to get overtime.
- greghinch 13y ago
  Would suggest putting up a simple one page description of this somewhere on the site.
_pmf_ 13y ago
> How is Crate.io better than the current PyPi? The website does not mention any of this, it barely contains any text. But it has a huge ass search field! It's all about the UX, brother; the bigger (and flatter!) the UI, the better the UX, as any UX expert will tell you.

by flexd 13y ago

_wmd 13y ago

It implements full text search without repeated strcmp() over half a gigabyte of strings, so search completes in reasonable time. Compare that to PyPi which does exactly what I described, and even during off peak periods, searches can sometimes take up to 20 seconds

srinidhiv 13y ago
Why not just fork the pypi code and fix it, then?
- donaldstufft 13y ago
  Have you looked at the PyPI codebase? ;) The real answer is I have. I'm a PyPI administrator now and have been enacting a lot of these benefits on PyPI itself. Just this weekend I've deployed a CDN in front of all of PyPI so that package downloads have sped up by 1-3 orders of magnitude depending on location. Previously I had pushed hard for getting a real valid and trusted SSL certificate on PyPI, moving the user provided html/js from packages.python.org to pythonhosted.org in order to prevent CSRF fixation attacks. Like I said Crate is an experiment. One that has enabled me to push for good changes in PyPI.
  - meowface 13y ago
    I think you're doing good work here, and I agree that PyPI is quite a bit of a mess. One little suggestion/question, though. CPAN: Comprehensive Perl Archive Network Rubygems: (self-explanatory) PyPI: Python Package Index Crate.io: Crate? Crate.io? Nothing about the name or any part of the domain really mentions Python, or Python packages or libraries. It's not a bad name, but it doesn't really seem like a name for a large Python package index. What's the exact rationale behind the naming?
    - donaldstufft 13y ago
      Crate is a synonym for Package and I liked the name :)
      - jl6 13y ago
        I believe a krait is a kind of snake if you want to go for that angle.
        antihero 13y ago
        The only reason I know this is due to playing Elite II.
        jl6 13y ago
        Ditto :-) There was a Python freighter too!
        antihero 13y ago
        IIRC that was actually the best (although not the biggest).
      - lightcatcher 13y ago
        If you aren't aware, packages in the Rust programming language are called crates.
orf 13y ago
Really? Why do they strcmp() over half a gb of strings, that seems pretty stupid and inefficient.

donaldstufft 13y ago

Crate is currently an experiment of mine into what a better package system would look like. It can be used as a drop in replacement against PyPI using the --index-url option of pip. (pip install --index-url=https://simple.crate.io/ https://simple.crate.io/) It has a number of security and speed improvements over PyPI some of which I've contributed back to or pushed for PyPI to get overtime.

greghinch 13y ago
Would suggest putting up a simple one page description of this somewhere on the site.

_pmf_ 13y ago

> How is Crate.io better than the current PyPi? The website does not mention any of this, it barely contains any text. But it has a huge ass search field! It's all about the UX, brother; the bigger (and flatter!) the UI, the better the UX, as any UX expert will tell you.