4 ms·

In an industry like O&G or energy experience is highly valued. When you have you have potentially billions of dollars on the line and many peoples lives with an

In an industry like O&G or energy experience is highly valued. When you have you have potentially billions of dollars on the line and many peoples lives with an oil platform you want someone who has done it before. In tech you are trying to make something no one has done before so you want the young hungry engineer.

Angostura 13y ago
> In tech you are trying to make something no one has done before so you want the young hungry engineer. Alternatively, choose the older engineer with the experience to know: "You know what? Fundamentally, what we're building here is the same as this thing from 10 years ago".
- samfisher83 13y ago
  Yes everything seems to go full circle from mainframe to PC to the cloud (Mainframes). It may be the same problem but someone younger might know how to tailor that solution to the younger generation. The other thing is all these founders are so young they may lack the experience or maturity to hire an older person.
  - samfisher1906 13y ago
    I work at a software company that most likely will be bankrupt by year end due to a young developer's desire to rewrite our flagship product from the ground up using "new" technology. Three years later this new product has 40% of the functionality of the pervious version and has customers canceling contracts that have been with us for 10+ years.
- disbelief 13y ago
  Exactly. Just because you're trying to accomplish something "no one has done yet" doesn't mean that you aren't going to be building on top of things (software, frameworks, paradigms) that have been around, at scale, for years. The older engineer is more likely to realize when a problem has already been solved, or during a crisis can connect the dots from previous experiences to find the solution.
- mason55 13y ago
  It's funny. One of my friends lost his job in a round of layoffs recently and was lamenting that his skills were based way too much on their internal technology for him to ever find another job. I walked through it with him and explained that you don't realize how much stuff is the same anywhere. Communicating with customers & stakeholders is the same anywhere. Working with your coworkers is the same anywhere. Managing a project has the same steps in every company and if you're good at it it will translate. Likewise requirements gathering. Your knowledge of various domains that you pick up. Etc etc etc. MOST of what you're trying to do has been done before. All the day-to-day work that makes your business successful has been done thousands of times before. The only thing that's new is a few minor implementation details.
  - vertis 13y ago
    Well? Don't leave us hanging, did he get another job?
    - mason55 13y ago
      The story is still being written... happened a week ago. I had the same feelings as him a few years ago though and I ended up getting tons of offers and finding an amazing job where I was promoted twice within a year.
SiVal 13y ago
I worked for a well-known software company (everyone here has used their software, I would guess), and they had this, "we're doing cutting edge stuff and need young, hungry engineers" notion in spades. At one point, a VP announced to me that they were going to build a certain software project and the CEO had decreed that it would be done in 90 days. I, an "older engineer", chuckled. I assumed that she was complaining about how silly this was and looking to me for a "Plan B". I started to provide one, but she cut me off. She was offended that I "wasn't fully on board" with Plan A. She was really miffed and said that her developers were "behind it 100%". My experience indicated that they were planning to use too many "new things" simultaneously. If any one beta-level technology failed, the whole project would fail. My Plan B was to essentially solve the main problem it was meant to solve with a minimal core built with tools we knew would work. Put that online on time, then incrementally upgrade features using the new technologies. Since my group would need some of the services of this software project, I went off and built part of Plan B myself (the part covering what our group would need) as a secret side project using old fuddy-duddy technologies that worked but weren't new, exciting, and unknown. When the 90-day project wasn't ready on Day 90, I put my own online. It worked perfectly. This VP and her minions were angry about it. "It demonstrated a lack of faith in her team." Two YEARS later, their 90-day Plan A finally shipped. She and the CIO never forgave me, though. I, the old guy, had used 80/20 to deliver the core of what was needed on the day they said it was needed, and I did it alone. Still, they remained convinced that "young, hungry" engineers were more likely to "be on board" with projects like the one they designed, and that was what mattered.
- aswanson 13y ago
  Young, hungry engineers and ceo on ship day, surrounding a keg in celebration: "We have made fire!"
- dennisgorelik 13y ago
  What would have happened if you did not create your side project?
  - SiVal 13y ago
    The US and EU markets would have been forced to keep using the old system, which is what they ended up doing. They assumed they were about to switch over to the new system in a few weeks, so my system would be of no use to them. Why switch to my Plan B if Plan A was just around the corner? They continued assuming the Plan A was about a month or two away for two years. The Asian locales had no old system to fall back on, so when Plan A didn't ship and I revealed my (fully localized) Plan B, they adopted it immediately. If I hadn't done my Plan B, the Asians would have had to go back to product registration by postcard.

Angostura 13y ago

> In tech you are trying to make something no one has done before so you want the young hungry engineer. Alternatively, choose the older engineer with the experience to know: "You know what? Fundamentally, what we're building here is the same as this thing from 10 years ago".

samfisher83 13y ago
Yes everything seems to go full circle from mainframe to PC to the cloud (Mainframes). It may be the same problem but someone younger might know how to tailor that solution to the younger generation. The other thing is all these founders are so young they may lack the experience or maturity to hire an older person.
- samfisher1906 13y ago
  I work at a software company that most likely will be bankrupt by year end due to a young developer's desire to rewrite our flagship product from the ground up using "new" technology. Three years later this new product has 40% of the functionality of the pervious version and has customers canceling contracts that have been with us for 10+ years.
disbelief 13y ago
Exactly. Just because you're trying to accomplish something "no one has done yet" doesn't mean that you aren't going to be building on top of things (software, frameworks, paradigms) that have been around, at scale, for years. The older engineer is more likely to realize when a problem has already been solved, or during a crisis can connect the dots from previous experiences to find the solution.
mason55 13y ago
It's funny. One of my friends lost his job in a round of layoffs recently and was lamenting that his skills were based way too much on their internal technology for him to ever find another job. I walked through it with him and explained that you don't realize how much stuff is the same anywhere. Communicating with customers & stakeholders is the same anywhere. Working with your coworkers is the same anywhere. Managing a project has the same steps in every company and if you're good at it it will translate. Likewise requirements gathering. Your knowledge of various domains that you pick up. Etc etc etc. MOST of what you're trying to do has been done before. All the day-to-day work that makes your business successful has been done thousands of times before. The only thing that's new is a few minor implementation details.
- vertis 13y ago
  Well? Don't leave us hanging, did he get another job?
  - mason55 13y ago
    The story is still being written... happened a week ago. I had the same feelings as him a few years ago though and I ended up getting tons of offers and finding an amazing job where I was promoted twice within a year.

SiVal 13y ago

I worked for a well-known software company (everyone here has used their software, I would guess), and they had this, "we're doing cutting edge stuff and need young, hungry engineers" notion in spades. At one point, a VP announced to me that they were going to build a certain software project and the CEO had decreed that it would be done in 90 days. I, an "older engineer", chuckled. I assumed that she was complaining about how silly this was and looking to me for a "Plan B". I started to provide one, but she cut me off. She was offended that I "wasn't fully on board" with Plan A. She was really miffed and said that her developers were "behind it 100%". My experience indicated that they were planning to use too many "new things" simultaneously. If any one beta-level technology failed, the whole project would fail. My Plan B was to essentially solve the main problem it was meant to solve with a minimal core built with tools we knew would work. Put that online on time, then incrementally upgrade features using the new technologies. Since my group would need some of the services of this software project, I went off and built part of Plan B myself (the part covering what our group would need) as a secret side project using old fuddy-duddy technologies that worked but weren't new, exciting, and unknown. When the 90-day project wasn't ready on Day 90, I put my own online. It worked perfectly. This VP and her minions were angry about it. "It demonstrated a lack of faith in her team." Two YEARS later, their 90-day Plan A finally shipped. She and the CIO never forgave me, though. I, the old guy, had used 80/20 to deliver the core of what was needed on the day they said it was needed, and I did it alone. Still, they remained convinced that "young, hungry" engineers were more likely to "be on board" with projects like the one they designed, and that was what mattered.

aswanson 13y ago
Young, hungry engineers and ceo on ship day, surrounding a keg in celebration: "We have made fire!"
dennisgorelik 13y ago
What would have happened if you did not create your side project?
- SiVal 13y ago
  The US and EU markets would have been forced to keep using the old system, which is what they ended up doing. They assumed they were about to switch over to the new system in a few weeks, so my system would be of no use to them. Why switch to my Plan B if Plan A was just around the corner? They continued assuming the Plan A was about a month or two away for two years. The Asian locales had no old system to fall back on, so when Plan A didn't ship and I revealed my (fully localized) Plan B, they adopted it immediately. If I hadn't done my Plan B, the Asians would have had to go back to product registration by postcard.