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Show HN: Rapid prototyping and development tool for web and mobile apps

25 points by sorich87 13y ago

sorich87 13y ago
I submitted this link a month ago but I learned the hard way that you shouldn't submit your startup on HN when it's not ready (it was downvoted). Hopefully this time I can get some reviews. :)
- lobotryas 13y ago
  Unfortunately the site looks a bit of a mess on iOS. I suggest a basic browser detect so you can display a nicer looking splash page to mobile users. You named your product Steve. If you want to go the Jenkins/Ask.com route of having a product with a human name then come up with a memorable and attractive avatar for Steve ASAP. Personally I would be weirded out using a product with a bland and generic name like "Steve". I understand this is subjective, but you may want to iterate on the name until you find something interesting and memorable. This may sound trite, but in a crowded marketplace where every conversion matters you'll want every edge you can get.
  - sorich87 13y ago
    Thanks for testing. I will fix on iOS. The goal is to make it work on tablets also at least, but I'm not there yet. :) About the name, the original idea for the app was "Steve, your technical cofounder" (an allusion to Woz obviously). I will definitely think more about the name.
city41 13y ago
"Stop looking for a developer." -- this is an interesting trend that is slowly, but surely, gaining traction. It's really taking hold in the indie game world, a lot of people now make games with GameMaker, Stencyl, and the like and often don't need a developer. It makes a lot of sense that this will take place in the website and mobile app world too. I wonder what developers will be doing in 5 years, when most/all CRUD apps can be built with drag and drop.
- seivan 13y ago
  A lot of those games aren't actually quality work. Especially because they tend to settle with out of the box settings instead of having the ability to customise it. Though a good artist can hide it through good artwork and sound.
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    Gamemaker (and probably the rest) do have the ability to optimize it. If people use it or not is their choice. To make an interesting (or even ok) game with those tools, you will be writing tons of code. As people do (read the forums). Even in 'educational' game makers like Gamesalad, you can see that people are taxing the system by 'writing' (drag & drop in this case) quite complex routines which do things (like raycasting) which Gamesalad is definitely never made for.
  - city41 13y ago
    Spelunky, Hotline Miami and Super Crate Box were all made with Game Maker. All very successful, critically acclaimed titles. Granted, it's hard to know how much GML (Game Maker's programming language) was used. But just the fact that they were made in Game Maker alone is a pretty strong testament that these tools are really coming into their own.
    - tluyben2 13y ago
      But why? Serious question. It's a programming language and a library for (mainly) 2d stuff. It's cross platform and has some graphical tools. But I believe good games have tons of GML in them. So what makes them different from the many other 2D game frameworks & programming languages besides that Gamemaker looks easier. I do welcome it's success though; more tools is better for game makers.
- tluyben2 13y ago
  This is nothing new and has been around since people started to make usable software for computer systems. The idea has been tried to death with countless software writing tools. MS DOS Dbase tools on top of dbase, written in clipper or what not to make CRUD applications by non programmers. There are generating tools from before that generating compile CRUD from just 'a business person definitions'. I have seen presentations from countless products like Filemaker, MS Access, Foxpro etc claiming that boring CRUD is gone and no programmers are needed anymore for application building. When I was younger, one of the product managers for the Dutch product SDW told me that programming business software was something of the past as business people could just input 'how the app should work' and the app would be automatically built. Outsystems have claimed this, as do Longjump and web based systems. They all have something in common; they work for some cases, if you want more you have a problem. You CAN do it, but it's hard and the resulting 'code' (usually visual programming or 4GL) will usually be bad. Ohyeah, and you're still programming. Worse than you would have with actual developers from the start. Note that most of them start out as simple systems, like this SteveApp. That's nice; it serves a purpose. But when you get users, people will request features and these feature will, in the end, require a full fledged programming language. So now you have non programmers creating an app up to a point which they still get and for more they'll hire you. They did a bit of 'programming' though in the built in language, which was made easy (which usually translates to visual and/or 'very much like English), so not very terse and often not very well written. Now you have 'code' like this http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6134596/Screenshots/uo079r9j~q3b.png http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6134596/Screenshots/uo079... and you only have to fix some extra features :)
tluyben2 13y ago
Nice work. It looks good (on desktop browsers anyway). Please read my other comment in this thread and keep it simple as to something which is easy to use but doesn't 'want' too much. Looking forward to my invite!
- sorich87 13y ago
  Thanks! I replied to your comment. It was very insightful. You will get the invite soon. :)

25 points by sorich87 13y ago

I submitted this link a month ago but I learned the hard way that you shouldn't submit your startup on HN when it's not ready (it was downvoted). Hopefully this time I can get some reviews. :)

lobotryas 13y ago
Unfortunately the site looks a bit of a mess on iOS. I suggest a basic browser detect so you can display a nicer looking splash page to mobile users. You named your product Steve. If you want to go the Jenkins/Ask.com route of having a product with a human name then come up with a memorable and attractive avatar for Steve ASAP. Personally I would be weirded out using a product with a bland and generic name like "Steve". I understand this is subjective, but you may want to iterate on the name until you find something interesting and memorable. This may sound trite, but in a crowded marketplace where every conversion matters you'll want every edge you can get.
- sorich87 13y ago
  Thanks for testing. I will fix on iOS. The goal is to make it work on tablets also at least, but I'm not there yet. :) About the name, the original idea for the app was "Steve, your technical cofounder" (an allusion to Woz obviously). I will definitely think more about the name.

city41 13y ago

"Stop looking for a developer." -- this is an interesting trend that is slowly, but surely, gaining traction. It's really taking hold in the indie game world, a lot of people now make games with GameMaker, Stencyl, and the like and often don't need a developer. It makes a lot of sense that this will take place in the website and mobile app world too. I wonder what developers will be doing in 5 years, when most/all CRUD apps can be built with drag and drop.

seivan 13y ago
A lot of those games aren't actually quality work. Especially because they tend to settle with out of the box settings instead of having the ability to customise it. Though a good artist can hide it through good artwork and sound.
- tluyben2 13y ago
  Gamemaker (and probably the rest) do have the ability to optimize it. If people use it or not is their choice. To make an interesting (or even ok) game with those tools, you will be writing tons of code. As people do (read the forums). Even in 'educational' game makers like Gamesalad, you can see that people are taxing the system by 'writing' (drag & drop in this case) quite complex routines which do things (like raycasting) which Gamesalad is definitely never made for.
- city41 13y ago
  Spelunky, Hotline Miami and Super Crate Box were all made with Game Maker. All very successful, critically acclaimed titles. Granted, it's hard to know how much GML (Game Maker's programming language) was used. But just the fact that they were made in Game Maker alone is a pretty strong testament that these tools are really coming into their own.
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    But why? Serious question. It's a programming language and a library for (mainly) 2d stuff. It's cross platform and has some graphical tools. But I believe good games have tons of GML in them. So what makes them different from the many other 2D game frameworks & programming languages besides that Gamemaker looks easier. I do welcome it's success though; more tools is better for game makers.
tluyben2 13y ago
This is nothing new and has been around since people started to make usable software for computer systems. The idea has been tried to death with countless software writing tools. MS DOS Dbase tools on top of dbase, written in clipper or what not to make CRUD applications by non programmers. There are generating tools from before that generating compile CRUD from just 'a business person definitions'. I have seen presentations from countless products like Filemaker, MS Access, Foxpro etc claiming that boring CRUD is gone and no programmers are needed anymore for application building. When I was younger, one of the product managers for the Dutch product SDW told me that programming business software was something of the past as business people could just input 'how the app should work' and the app would be automatically built. Outsystems have claimed this, as do Longjump and web based systems. They all have something in common; they work for some cases, if you want more you have a problem. You CAN do it, but it's hard and the resulting 'code' (usually visual programming or 4GL) will usually be bad. Ohyeah, and you're still programming. Worse than you would have with actual developers from the start. Note that most of them start out as simple systems, like this SteveApp. That's nice; it serves a purpose. But when you get users, people will request features and these feature will, in the end, require a full fledged programming language. So now you have non programmers creating an app up to a point which they still get and for more they'll hire you. They did a bit of 'programming' though in the built in language, which was made easy (which usually translates to visual and/or 'very much like English), so not very terse and often not very well written. Now you have 'code' like this http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6134596/Screenshots/uo079r9j~q3b.png http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6134596/Screenshots/uo079... and you only have to fix some extra features :)

tluyben2 13y ago

Nice work. It looks good (on desktop browsers anyway). Please read my other comment in this thread and keep it simple as to something which is easy to use but doesn't 'want' too much. Looking forward to my invite!

sorich87 13y ago
Thanks! I replied to your comment. It was very insightful. You will get the invite soon. :)