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Yeah but mandatory vacation laws takes away that choice from others. Sure you would like to have vacation time in lieu of your salary, but I don't, I am saving

Yeah but mandatory vacation laws takes away that choice from others. Sure you would like to have vacation time in lieu of your salary, but I don't, I am saving up for the future, and I can work harder now when I am young, forcing me to take vacation when I'd rather have more salary, is wrong.

nraynaud 13y ago
My mother (in France) ended up with 8 weeks off, while the normal stuff is 5 weeks, because with time you're rewarded more days off. The other trick is that it is paid time off, you can still do overtime if you want to (there was even a tax break on overtime for a few years here). But as I said on another topic, since you're paid to work 218 days in the year as a software engineer (and not by the hour), overtime would mean working during the week-end. You can also do a good job and ask for a bigger salary.
- splintercell 13y ago
  You can also do a good job and ask for a bigger salary. I am sorry but if I do a good job, and ask for a bigger salary, that means without mandatory vacation laws I would get an even bigger salary. I don't understand how you think that's actually an equal solution?
  - nraynaud 13y ago
    It's all relative, it's the feeling of having more, not the actual amont of money that counts. the relative feeling of increase, having more than the Jones and stuff like that. Because the actual trick to have an absolute lot of money is not linked to the hours worked. It's about working in Wall Street, or in some criminal activities, or in some investment. It's never about time spent at the desk, the whole point of earning loads of money is to decouple the revenue from the time worked. You have to earn money while you sleep. Then, why not earning while you tan? That's the whole discussion between J.Schwartz and B.Gates on the java patents. And I think Gates knows a little bit about having loads of money (I can't say the same about Schwartz).
Tomis02 13y ago
The mandatory vacation is there to make sure the employee is well rested, efficient at his job and not incurring extra expenses by becoming prone to illness through overwork. You assume that if there were no mandatory vacation laws your salary would be higher but that is highly unlikely - your taxes would be just as high (and in the long term probably even higher because of the side effects), paying to support social measures that improve the life of all citizens (e.g. - guaranteed healthcare).
- splintercell 13y ago
  No I am pretty sure with a mandatory vacation law my salary WOULD be lower.
  - Tomis02 13y ago
    Sure, because your average US company has the plantation mentality - "the more time the employee spends on the job, the more productive he is", which is obviously not true for software development. The US company sees vacation as wasted time, not an investment into the employee's productivity and well-being.
  - adaml_623 13y ago
    First of all no one can be sure about such a thing. Secondly why would you not just get a second temporary job on your vacation days. In fact if you're so desperate for money do you have a second job already?
deleted 13y ago
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blcknight 13y ago
"Forcing me to take vacation when I'd rather have more salary, is wrong." You have a weird idea of what's "wrong." What's wrong is American companies that have created this environment where employees feel guilty to stay home when they have the fucking flu or take a week or two off to spend time with their families on vacation. These are the companies that ostensibly offer paid time off benefits. Then there's the vast majority of the working poor who don't even get this option, so they're screwed when they or their kids get sick or they're at the end of the rope and just need a break. It's not even just pay either -- unpaid sick time can result in getting fired.

nraynaud 13y ago

My mother (in France) ended up with 8 weeks off, while the normal stuff is 5 weeks, because with time you're rewarded more days off. The other trick is that it is paid time off, you can still do overtime if you want to (there was even a tax break on overtime for a few years here). But as I said on another topic, since you're paid to work 218 days in the year as a software engineer (and not by the hour), overtime would mean working during the week-end. You can also do a good job and ask for a bigger salary.

splintercell 13y ago
You can also do a good job and ask for a bigger salary. I am sorry but if I do a good job, and ask for a bigger salary, that means without mandatory vacation laws I would get an even bigger salary. I don't understand how you think that's actually an equal solution?
- nraynaud 13y ago
  It's all relative, it's the feeling of having more, not the actual amont of money that counts. the relative feeling of increase, having more than the Jones and stuff like that. Because the actual trick to have an absolute lot of money is not linked to the hours worked. It's about working in Wall Street, or in some criminal activities, or in some investment. It's never about time spent at the desk, the whole point of earning loads of money is to decouple the revenue from the time worked. You have to earn money while you sleep. Then, why not earning while you tan? That's the whole discussion between J.Schwartz and B.Gates on the java patents. And I think Gates knows a little bit about having loads of money (I can't say the same about Schwartz).

Tomis02 13y ago

The mandatory vacation is there to make sure the employee is well rested, efficient at his job and not incurring extra expenses by becoming prone to illness through overwork. You assume that if there were no mandatory vacation laws your salary would be higher but that is highly unlikely - your taxes would be just as high (and in the long term probably even higher because of the side effects), paying to support social measures that improve the life of all citizens (e.g. - guaranteed healthcare).

splintercell 13y ago
No I am pretty sure with a mandatory vacation law my salary WOULD be lower.
- Tomis02 13y ago
  Sure, because your average US company has the plantation mentality - "the more time the employee spends on the job, the more productive he is", which is obviously not true for software development. The US company sees vacation as wasted time, not an investment into the employee's productivity and well-being.
- adaml_623 13y ago
  First of all no one can be sure about such a thing. Secondly why would you not just get a second temporary job on your vacation days. In fact if you're so desperate for money do you have a second job already?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

blcknight 13y ago

"Forcing me to take vacation when I'd rather have more salary, is wrong." You have a weird idea of what's "wrong." What's wrong is American companies that have created this environment where employees feel guilty to stay home when they have the fucking flu or take a week or two off to spend time with their families on vacation. These are the companies that ostensibly offer paid time off benefits. Then there's the vast majority of the working poor who don't even get this option, so they're screwed when they or their kids get sick or they're at the end of the rope and just need a break. It's not even just pay either -- unpaid sick time can result in getting fired.