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U.S. is the only developed country with no guaranteed paid vacation or holidays
- ck2 13y agoAnd no guaranteed health care. Makes for a "wonderful mess" where if one person gets sick, it wipes out the workplace, because they cannot afford to not be on the job. But hey they are trying to bring back indentured servitude so these are the least of the average person's worries.
- oleganza 13y agoAnother reason to not miss a day on the job: half of your income is confiscated by your government for the "social good" + massive regulations prevent a lot of people from getting work, so it's much harder to change employer or start a business than would otherwise. And of course, 80 bln dollars printed per month raise prices making every USD holder poorer everyday. Definitely, we need more welfare mess on top of it.
- ck2 13y agoHalf? If anything is half, it's half the budget is going towards war and military welfare.
- oleganza 13y agoNo, war is mostly funded from printed money. No amount of taxation would fund such a waste of capital.
- potatolicious 13y ago> "Another reason to not miss a day on the job: half of your income is confiscated by your government for the "social good"" Taxation is not spread evenly. The portion of the population most at-risk (i.e., lowest levels of health insurance, lowest levels of paid leave, etc) pay little to no taxes. Tax rates only become high in populations that can afford to take a day off (i.e., good health insurance coverage, paid sick days, etc). So no, the people who are afraid of missing a day of work do not have "half their income" confiscated by the government. In fact, I'd be interested in seeing anyone in the US who pays an income tax rate of 50%. This seems like an interesting feat, considering the highest marginal rate is 40%.
- tptacek 13y agoYou could probably get there in NYC, which has both a high state tax and a city tax.
- pandaman 13y agoHe is not saying "income tax rate is 50%". Please pay attention. The half of the income comes from the estimates of how much you pay taxes in total. Including property, sales tax, various fees and tariffs, and, most importantly, portion of corporate and other taxes that the consumer pays as part of the prices of goods and services.
- tibbon 13y agoJust to correct you a little, its nowhere near half of the your income. Marginal tax rate is 39.6% for a single filer for income in excess of $400k. Of course the majority of states have sales tax, and there's other taxes (state, property, petrol, etc) down the line as well. For some people, it may approach a total of 50% taxation, but that is a tiny tiny minority. And its not like most people making over $400k actually pay that tax rate on all their income, given that we have exceedingly generous deductions and other classes of tax (capital gains, which is a favorite of the rich) that are significantly lower than the marginal rate on standard income. I'd like to know more about regulations preventing people from working (especially those in the top tax bracket). I, for one, enjoy our decent roads, overall stability, and "social good" programs. I pay a pretty decent amount in taxes, but its really never bothered me one bit.
- philiphodgen 13y ago> Just to correct you a little, its nowhere near half of the your income. Marginal tax rate is 39.6% for a single filer for income in excess of $400k. Of course the majority of states have sales tax, and there's other taxes (state, property, petrol, etc) down the line as well. For some people, it may approach a total of 50% taxation, but that is a tiny tiny minority. And its not like most people making over $400k actually pay that tax rate on all their income, given that we have exceedingly generous deductions and other classes of tax (capital gains, which is a favorite of the rich) that are significantly lower than the marginal rate on standard income. Math, personal experience, and observation tells me otherwise -- for a human living in California, at least. Between Federal income tax, Social Security tax, State income tax, the various (un)employment taxes, sales tax, excise taxes of one type or another, property tax, etc. I suspect that most people give 1/2 of their income to one government entity or another. Whether that is an acceptable amount is another matter entirely. That's a normative judgment call. But the raw math seems to indicate a massive haircut. And don't get me started on the financial burden of the friction of the tax system (aka paperwork and complexity). (Disclosure: I am an international tax lawyer and it is my job to think tax laws are evil).
- mickt 13y ago
- jshen 13y agoWe haven't had any significant change in inflation after QE. We need more stimulus on top of it!
- sultezdukes 13y agoMakes for a "wonderful mess" where if one person gets sick, it wipes out the workplace, because they cannot afford to not be on the job So is everybody that is getting sick and bringing it in the workplace got the plague? But hey they are trying to bring back indentured servitude so these are the least of the average person's worries. It sounds like you're another victim of indoctrination from somewhere.
- pyre 13y ago| It sounds like you're another victim of | indoctrination from somewhere. To be fair, that are probably a good number of people that would vote for such a thing if they felt it would increase the value of their stock portfolio.
- gav 13y ago> if one person gets sick, it wipes out the workplace This is on my "if I was in charge, I'd fix this" list; I spent most of this January sick, I attribute this to coworkers who couldn't take time off. You really need to get a lot of sick days and then management needs to keep you out of the office until you are well. That includes stay-in-bed time where you get better instead of attempting to work, plus working from home for a few days. The cost of having an office full of sick people is huge, it's a massive moral and productivity problem, ignoring the health implications. The policy of having combined sick and vacation days as "PTO" is broken.
- sultezdukes 13y agoThe United States is the only advanced economy in the world that does not guarantee its workers paid vacation. You can guarantee it yourself when you accept a position somewhere. But once again we have leftists in the media assuming that everybody is completely incompetent without the government intervening in every aspect of society. You can just see those so-called journalists over at the Washington Post looking at the "social democracies" like a starry-eyed school girl.
- ck2 13y agoYeah that darn minimum wage and pesky anti-slavery laws. Who the heck does the government think it is anyway. And why do responsible drivers need traffic lights.
- sultezdukes 13y agoWho made slavery legal to begin with? And your typical leftist tactic of acting like we're calling for anarchy is boring
- danso 13y agoIIRC, it was the Founding Fathers who were critical in allowing slavery to be legal. I wasn't aware that they were considered to be particularly left-wing.
- ivix 13y agoSure about that? Compare their policies to British equivalents at the time.
- ck2 13y agoThe people who made and insured slavery was legal appear on every form of currency in your wallet (except the penny and $5 bill). The very motive of capitalism is to make as much profit in any way possible. The only thing holding it back is law, which is made by government. The problem is the government which should be run by the people but more often than not is run by lobbyists who are owned by the corporations looking to push for more capitalism. The answer is not less laws, it's less lobbyists.
- Irishsteve 13y agoAnd when you are lucky enough to get paid vacation, it is usually 1 - 2 weeks less than the norm for many european countries.
- spiritplumber 13y agoYeah, during my stint at NASA I was looked at funny because I said "I am going home for Christmas as per tradition, and I will be back on January 7th" whereas they wanted me to be back on the 30th. According to that logic I'd have spent almost more time on airplanes than being home.
- sliverstorm 13y agoIncreasing it may not help that much- don't we have a chronic problem of people not actually using their vacation?
- masklinn 13y agoThat's where labor boards come in: companies can get fined if employees don't take their vacation.
- ownagefool 13y agoWe have the problem here in the UK and the likely rest of Europe. Some employers just aren't interested in treating their staff well, but for those who are, having a better standard to follow is nice.
- adrr 13y agoEven if you get the same amount, there is no guarantee management will approve it.
- nthj 13y ago> And when you are lucky enough to get paid vacation Luck has nothing to do with it. Learn how to demonstrate the value you bring to the table, then negotiate for the salary/vacation combination you want. Believe me, it's a lot more empowering than waiting around for Big Brother to beat up the mean old corporations for you.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- sethbannon 13y agoFYI here's the original report: http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/no-vacation-update-2013-05.pdf http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/no-vacation-updat...
- ChuckMcM 13y agoInteresting, does China have mandatory paid vacations and holidays?
- st0p 13y agoChina hasn't got free speech either. What is your point?
- ChuckMcM 13y agoWell I didn't think China did, and they are certainly a 'developed nation' so saying the US is the "only" developed nation without it was false on its face. So that made me wonder what subtext the headline was trying send. As at last check China was on track to be the #2 economy in the world and perhaps the #1 economy (replacing the US). If you wrote the article title "All the top economies of the world don't have mandatory vacation" its a much different message is it not? One headline seems to advocate that the US is barbaric for not allowing vacation, and the other headline seems to advocate that you can't become a top economy by giving away GDP.
- room271 13y agoChina is not a developed nation by modern standards. It still has very high levels of poverty and a low average income compared to what is typically called 'The West' (Western Europe, North America, Japan, etc.).
- ChuckMcM 13y agoCan you say more about why you base the definition of 'developed' on per capita income rather than economic capability? I ask because my definition is 'capable of providing all needs of the citizens caveat raw materials' so by that definition China can build pretty much anything it needs if it has the raw materials to do so, it doesn't depend on any other economy for transforming or upleveling those materials into economic inputs. I agree with you that its people do not benefit equally from its economy but I don't tie that into 'developed' or 'not developed'.
- tptacek 13y agoTime and money are fungible. When you "guarantee" workers 4-5 weeks of vacation, who's to say your comp isn't being adjusted downwards to compensate? What's the apples-apples comparison you could do between, say, Germany and the US to demonstrate how much better a deal the Germans are getting on this? Meanwhile, if you're making near minimum wage, aren't you more likely to be fighting for additional hours rather than looking for reasons to give them up?
- YZF 13y agoThey're not completely. Try negotiating more vacation and less pay. This is very difficult in practice. The employer will be concerned about other employees seeing you're getting more vacation (they can't see your pay).
- tptacek 13y agoIn my experience, the opposite has been true: companies have hard caps (bands) on salary, but not on vacation days, so you can usually negotiate for the latter more easily than the former. If time and money aren't fungible, shouldn't there be a comparison we could do between Germany and the US to show that? Maybe there is one. I haven't looked hard.
- YZF 13y agoIt's expected that money is negotiated. Companies that have bands usually have pretty wide bands and then the band you're in is also negotiable. Most companies will have a vacation policy of some sort which is hard to negotiate against. Vacation is more visible which can make it a problem. This also creates a "negative vacation" problem- people working on weekends, holidays, long hours and during their "vacation". What would you compare between Germany and the US? Perhaps a more adequate comparison is US salary level vs. vacation days across different companies. Also a very hard/noisy compare. We should do an HN survey... (I'd be interested in how much vacation people are getting/taking).
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- venomsnake 13y agoAustria have 35 days off guaranteed (almost 2 months if you throw a few days off because of sickness) while the us have 16 on average and the GDP per capita of the two countries is almost the same. Ample amounts of rest does not seem to increase productivity in the rest of the time. Fun fact - in Boleslaw Prus Pharaoh one of the main economic measures what the pharaoh declaring every seventh day a rest one instead of every tenth for the peasants with the argumentation that they will work better the rest of the times.
- alsocasey 13y agoGDP per capita of the two countries is almost the same. Ample amounts of rest does not seem to increase productivity in the rest of the time. GDP per capita is a per annum figure - so productivity (economic output per days of work) would actually be higher for Austria in the above case.
- hexis 13y ago"The United States is the only advanced economy in the world that..." The United States, like the past, is a different country. We do things differently here.
- MysticFear 13y agoThe United States didn't become the most powerful country by following others.
- a-priori 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_exceptionalism
- michaelochurch 13y agoIn the 21st century, the U.S. isn't a First World country. That's not a dig. It's just the new reality. 20th century defintions: First World: liberal, capitalistic democracies Second World: totalitarian leftism (Soviet bloc) Third World: poorer countries "in play" (Afghanistan, Korea, Vietnam). This isn't very useful anymore. S. Korea is not "third world" and totalitarian leftism died. 21st century definitions: First World: Nations with established social democracies (welfare states). Second World: Nations sacrificing well-being for other motives. Third World: Poor countries that don't get to choose. Most people would think of the BRIC countries as "Second World", then. These countries are sacrificing equity and, in many cases, democracy in order to have rapid economic growth. The Arab petrostates are also Second World: rich, but through social and political sacrifice. But the U.S. is doing the same thing; it's just that the U.S. isn't seeking rapid growth (difficult when already in the lead) but the maintenance of military supremacy (hence the gigantic war budget). It's not all bad news. Second World countries tend to make it a lot easier to get individually rich.
- splintercell 13y agoCould you go any more left-liberal in your new definitions of countries?
- sultezdukes 13y agoYou don't get to make up the definitions.
- michaelochurch 13y agoI didn't; that's how they seem to be used in the 21st-century world. To be honest, though, the "Nth World" classification is of questionable utility.
- mitchty 13y agoEspecially since your 20th century definitions aren't correct, it brings into question that your definitions of the 21st are near correct or widely accepted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World
- kushti 13y ago"U.S. is the only developed country not poisoned by socialism" fixed
- Tomis02 13y agoDog eat dog is so much better, right? I still don't understand how John Rawls was born in USA, his views were so un-American.
- pyre 13y agoDog eat dog is much better... if you view yourself as the alpha dog. The funny thing is that were push come to shove, you might find out that your views and reality differ.
- mtillman 13y agoWe're also one of only three countries in the world with no mandatory maternity leave and the only "developed": http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/labor/news/2013/03/08/55683/the-united-states-needs-to-guarantee-paid-maternity-leave/ http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/labor/news/2013/03/08...
- pionar 13y agoIt's interesting that most of the countries with the higher levels of paid vacation and holidays have some of the absolute worst economies. Portugal? Spain? Italy? France? Greece? Yeah, how's the guaranteed vacations and holidays working out for them?
- Tomis02 13y agoGermany? Norway? Sweeden? Finland? Ain't that interesting...
- soperj 13y agoHow's the US economy doing the past few years?
- pyre 13y agoYou're comparing one extreme to another in order to say that your preferred extreme is better? Based on the logic that you're trying to put forth paid vacation should be made illegal. Then the economy would increase 10-fold, right?
- novalis 13y agoI don't know how someone can even attempt that tone without having a clue on what one is on about. "The 28 days statutory (UK) leave compared with 25 in Greece, France, Austria, Sweden, Luxembourg, Finland and Denmark, 24 in Malta, 22 in Spain and Portugal, 21 in Norway and 20 in Italy, Belgium, Germany, Cyprus, Ireland, Switzerland and Holland."
- tome 13y agoMy 25 days "paid" vacation a year was no more "paid" (when I had it) than my 52 "paid" weekends a year. It's simply non-discretionary time available for me to not come into work, the cost of which has already been deducted from my salary. That's not to say I didn't value the generous amount of time off, and that's not to say Americans will find it easy to negotiate such an amount of unpaid leave. But let's be realistic about what "paid" vacation is.
- therandomguy 13y agoIt is best to boil it down to one variable, in this case, money and let the employee decide.
- bojan 13y agoOn the other hand, IT salaries are way higher in the US than they are in Europe. When I see people here talking about $100k a year like it's normal thing to have I feel that difference.
- TheCoelacanth 13y agoThose salaries are only common in a few areas with an outrageously high cost of living. In the rest of the country, the salaries aren't much higher than the ones in Europe.
- room271 13y agoWe have a tendency to overwork because relative status matters to our well-being. In short, it's a massive prisoner's dilemma and income tax can be seen as a corrective on this. So mandatory holidays are in fact a great idea because they overcome a coordination failure. (Discuss...)