4 ms·

elance is good and the only site i use for this - mostly because i'm used to it and i find new sites confusing to get used to, more than that i consider it 'bes

by wilfra 13y ago

elance is good and the only site i use for this - mostly because i'm used to it and i find new sites confusing to get used to, more than that i consider it 'best'. it's dominated by the weak php developers you speak of, but if you just filter everybody out who charges less than $20 per hour[1], you'll get rid of most of them and be left with some good people. after you've gotten a few hundred proposals on elance it will be tempting to just ignore everybody from certain countries. i urge you not to do that though. instead filter by hourly rate. an indian or pakistani developer charging $25+/hour is either delusional or really, really good (i.e. $150+/hour if they were in san francisco). a quick skype chat is usually sufficient to figure out which. [1]do this yourself, don't set the terms to $20/hour, or all of the bad devs will just try to charge you $20/hour. by setting it to 'not sure' it's a race to the bottom and all those guys will be competing with each other for the lowest hourly rate. you then just ignore all of them.

maratd 13y ago
> it's dominated by the weak php developers you speak of, but if you just filter everybody out who charges less than $20 per hour[1], you'll get rid of most of them and be left with some good people. As a freelancer who picks up quite a bit of work on Elance, I can vouch for this, from my end of things. The key to success, both on the client side and on the freelance side, is absolutely brutal filtering. There are many opportunities there, but you need to dig for them. Some tips for success looking for talent on Elance: 1. Be sure to invite well performing freelancers from the geographical area where you reside to your project. There's really no need to go abroad, there's plenty of talent available wherever you happen to live. You skip any cultural and communication issues that might crop up if you go with somebody abroad. 2. Again, be sure to invite the right freelancers to your project. In fact, make the project invite only. Anybody who is worth their salt on Elance doesn't search for work. They only reply to work they are interested in when they are invited to it. I get several invites every day and for whatever reason, on weekends, I can get over a dozen a day. Weekend warriors? 3. Always do fixed price projects. With a fixed price project, you'll know exactly how much you'll pay and can reduce the cost of the project intelligently by pairing down the features. With an hourly project, I'll just throw a number I charge per hour at you and you're nowhere closer to knowing how much you'll pay. One guy can get the job done in 10 hours, another in 2, you have no idea which is which ... stick to fixed price. 4. Be sure to provide as much technical detail into the project as possible. Try to break things down into achievable milestones. Clearly specify the features you need and the work that you want done. I ignore projects which simply specify what qualifications you want me to have. Let's assume I already know how to do the work or I wouldn't be looking at it. Tell me what the work is and be specific. 5. Reject proposals. If you're not going to go with a proposal, reject it. I do not like submitting proposals in a crowded space. It tells me the client isn't involved in the process. There's no way in hell you're entertaining a dozen proposals or more. More than likely, you'll pair it down to 3 or 4. Do the pairing from the very beginning. If you wait until the end, many quality freelances will choose not to even submit anything because they do not want to deal with the crowd. 6. Include your name in the project description. Just the first name is fine. I need to know what to call you, right? 7. Immediately reject proposals that don't include your project specifics. If you took the time to write a details project description, expect me to read it and to respond to it in kind.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- tocomment 13y ago
  Does it pay well? I was under the impression it wasn't viable for developers in high cost of living areas? Also what do you mean about number 5, rejecting proposals?
  - maratd 13y ago
    > Also what do you mean about number 5, rejecting proposals? The client has the ability to reject a proposal and move it to the declined pile, where it is hidden from view. The client should exercise that ability at every possible turn to keep the current proposals on the project page to a minimum. Nobody likes dealing with a crowd.
hu_me 13y ago
well charging higher than 25$/hr cuts both ways I originally started from elance a few years back and gave a low-ish rate but I was being ignored or being asked for discounts on near bottom rates, I realized if you want to be valued you need to have a rate that's respected. I have tripled that rate and the quality of projects and clients has improved considerably. ps do give a rough range of budget on elance but never an absolute number, if someone invites me to a project offering 20$/hr I run the other way. disclaimer: I run marketlytics and generally participate on these sites as a consultant so this maybe more to my benefit.
- wilfra 13y ago
  I've never used elance as a freelancer and I have no idea of the dynamics involved trying to find clients - though I'd imagine it's brutal. My advice was geared completely toward finding the best developers and not vice versa. Indeed, game theory dictates that if everybody did what I suggested the bad devs would eventually figure it out and it would no longer work.

by wilfra 13y ago

maratd 13y ago

> it's dominated by the weak php developers you speak of, but if you just filter everybody out who charges less than $20 per hour[1], you'll get rid of most of them and be left with some good people. As a freelancer who picks up quite a bit of work on Elance, I can vouch for this, from my end of things. The key to success, both on the client side and on the freelance side, is absolutely brutal filtering. There are many opportunities there, but you need to dig for them. Some tips for success looking for talent on Elance: 1. Be sure to invite well performing freelancers from the geographical area where you reside to your project. There's really no need to go abroad, there's plenty of talent available wherever you happen to live. You skip any cultural and communication issues that might crop up if you go with somebody abroad. 2. Again, be sure to invite the right freelancers to your project. In fact, make the project invite only. Anybody who is worth their salt on Elance doesn't search for work. They only reply to work they are interested in when they are invited to it. I get several invites every day and for whatever reason, on weekends, I can get over a dozen a day. Weekend warriors? 3. Always do fixed price projects. With a fixed price project, you'll know exactly how much you'll pay and can reduce the cost of the project intelligently by pairing down the features. With an hourly project, I'll just throw a number I charge per hour at you and you're nowhere closer to knowing how much you'll pay. One guy can get the job done in 10 hours, another in 2, you have no idea which is which ... stick to fixed price. 4. Be sure to provide as much technical detail into the project as possible. Try to break things down into achievable milestones. Clearly specify the features you need and the work that you want done. I ignore projects which simply specify what qualifications you want me to have. Let's assume I already know how to do the work or I wouldn't be looking at it. Tell me what the work is and be specific. 5. Reject proposals. If you're not going to go with a proposal, reject it. I do not like submitting proposals in a crowded space. It tells me the client isn't involved in the process. There's no way in hell you're entertaining a dozen proposals or more. More than likely, you'll pair it down to 3 or 4. Do the pairing from the very beginning. If you wait until the end, many quality freelances will choose not to even submit anything because they do not want to deal with the crowd. 6. Include your name in the project description. Just the first name is fine. I need to know what to call you, right? 7. Immediately reject proposals that don't include your project specifics. If you took the time to write a details project description, expect me to read it and to respond to it in kind.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tocomment 13y ago
Does it pay well? I was under the impression it wasn't viable for developers in high cost of living areas? Also what do you mean about number 5, rejecting proposals?
- maratd 13y ago
  > Also what do you mean about number 5, rejecting proposals? The client has the ability to reject a proposal and move it to the declined pile, where it is hidden from view. The client should exercise that ability at every possible turn to keep the current proposals on the project page to a minimum. Nobody likes dealing with a crowd.

hu_me 13y ago

well charging higher than 25$/hr cuts both ways I originally started from elance a few years back and gave a low-ish rate but I was being ignored or being asked for discounts on near bottom rates, I realized if you want to be valued you need to have a rate that's respected. I have tripled that rate and the quality of projects and clients has improved considerably. ps do give a rough range of budget on elance but never an absolute number, if someone invites me to a project offering 20$/hr I run the other way. disclaimer: I run marketlytics and generally participate on these sites as a consultant so this maybe more to my benefit.

wilfra 13y ago
I've never used elance as a freelancer and I have no idea of the dynamics involved trying to find clients - though I'd imagine it's brutal. My advice was geared completely toward finding the best developers and not vice versa. Indeed, game theory dictates that if everybody did what I suggested the bad devs would eventually figure it out and it would no longer work.