6 ms·

The Skeleton Lake of Roopkund, India

134 points by aasarava 13y ago

ekianjo 13y ago
Can one really die from hail? I have seen pretty big ones now and then, but usually one would cover their heads with their hands at least, to make it safely through it.
- gauravk 13y ago
  This should give some perspective :) : http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hail-no-an-account-of-the-worlds-biggest-deadliest-hailstorms http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hail-no-an-account-of-t...
- monsterix 13y ago
  Yes, in Asia there have been deaths in sufficient numbers due to freak hailstorms. [1][2] Guess this has something to do with the first knock-off itself. [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271147/Nine-people-killed-freak-hailstorm-rains-massive-boulders-Indian-villages.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271147/Nine-people-... [2] http://www.mathrubhumi.com/english/story.php?id=136175 http://www.mathrubhumi.com/english/story.php?id=136175
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    Can hail storms be predicted accurately by the way ?
    - monsterix 13y ago
      Possibly. There exist weather modelling and prediction techniques to assess the risk of hailstorm. A typical weather agency does do that already [1]. The key challenge here would always be to inform the disconnected locals in millions within a small area or region. A lot of equations fail when you consider the population density and economics of an average or below average citizen in Asia. [1] http://www.hailstormforecasts.com.au/ http://www.hailstormforecasts.com.au/
- jlgreco 13y ago
  9"/23cm hail would do you in pretty quick I would think. Even using my entire forearms I can only manage to partially cover my whole head. You'd be better off dropping down into the fetal position but if all the injuries were to the top of the head then it sounds like they didn't do that (maybe it started too quickly).
  - roel_v 13y ago
    I think the comments to the article draw the correct conclusion - the author mixed up circumference with diameter, and the hail would have been 'only' 3 inches. Still pretty deadly, but not quite as terrifying as being bombarded with rock-hard soccer balls.
    - ekianjo 13y ago
      Wow, mixing up circumference and diameter is pretty bad journalistic mistake.
  - vacri 13y ago
    These people were travellers, not joggers. They likely would have had some items with which to shield their heads - packs, pans, spare heavy clothing. Perhaps they did, and there were more than 200 - the survivors making it of the pass.
- rurounijones 13y ago
  There was a tornado near my village in Belgium (Hardly the land of freak weather) which was preceeded by a hailstorm. The hail was only about an inch across or so. After the storm and tornado had gone through and we were outside evaluating the damage a man staggered into the village. He had been out jogging (Shorts and T-Shirt) when the hail fell and it looked like someone had beaten him all over his body (loads of individual Bruises, bleeding etc.). And this was only relatively small hail in the grand scheme of things. I can easily imagine hail being able to kill someone.
gauravk 13y ago
I was there at the site in 2010. It was an amazing trek (http://roopkund.com/ http://roopkund.com/). Right now, the forest officials are struggling to preserve the remains because tourist often like to take the skeletons back with them as souvenirs. Since the lake is far off and frozen for eight months in a year, it is difficult to guard the area. Most skeletons and bones have been stolen over the years with only a few skulls and bones remaining around the frozen lake.
- ern 13y ago
  Right now, the forest officials are struggling to preserve the remains because tourist often like to take the skeletons back with them as souvenirs. I that's happening, it is surprising that tourists can pass through customs with human remains, undetected.
  - gauravk 13y ago
    Well... India is a large country with a growing middle class. It doesn't need foreign tourists to do the damage.
  - mansigandhi 13y ago
    It's not like all the tourists in India are from abroad. The majority are Indians from other states. We travel too, you know.
maaku 13y ago
Great, now I have one more irrational fear.
- reeses 13y ago
  I'd say a fear of the color blue or clowns is irrational. A fear of earthquakes, snakes, and huge hailstorms is rational (if extremely unlikely to occur). Not to, you know, encourage your imminent agoraphobia.
- Luyt 13y ago
  Never leave home without your helmet and armored shoulder pads ;-)
tn13 13y ago
Even though this mystery is as good as solved, this mystery death remains still a mystery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident
- verroq 13y ago
  I'm going to go ahead and say Cracked.com is probably correct on this one - avalanche. http://www.cracked.com/article_16671_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-with-really-obvious-solutions.html http://www.cracked.com/article_16671_6-famous-unsolved-myste...
- ekianjo 13y ago
  Nice link - thanks for sharing.
- Luyt 13y ago
  There exists a Skeptoid episode about this: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108 http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108 an excerpt: "Here is my proposed explanation of what happened. It's wrong, of course, because it's done from my armchair 50 years after the fact and with no firsthand knowledge of the region, but it's completely reasonable and does adequately satisfy the facts as we know them. Nine skiers set up camp in an area with potential avalanche danger, but no more or less danger than would have been found if they set up anywhere else they could have reached before nightfall. Sometime during the night, a loud noise, either from a nearby avalanche, a jet aircraft, or military ordnance, convinced at least five members of the group that an avalanche was bearing down on them. They burst out of the tent wearing whatever they happened to be sleeping in and ran. At some point one of them fell and struck his head on a rock. They became lost in the dark and poor visibility, or simply found themselves stranded with their injured friend, and finally built a fire. They quickly got hypothermia and probably shouted themselves hoarse for their friends. Two of them lost consciousness and the others made a desperation decision: To take what little clothes their two unconscious buddies had and risk it all to try and make it back to camp. One made it 300 meters, the second made it 480, and the third a full 630 meters before all five were dead from hypothermia. Back at camp, the four who didn't panic and run away in the night got dressed, collected provisions, and began to search for their friends. They searched for hours, circling high and low, until at some point either through a slip or just bad luck, they were caught in a real avalanche. During the resulting turmoil one received a fatal skull fracture, one received twelve broken ribs, and one bit her tongue off, all perfectly plausible injuries during such a traumatic death. Their bodies remained buried until the spring thaw, as is so common with avalanche victims. At the open-casket funeral for the first five victims, relatives saw the combination of five days of winter sunburn in those days before sunscreen, and the mortician's effort to cover up frostbite and a full month of exposure to the elements, and described it as a strange orange color; though others described it simply as a deep tan, which is consistent with reasonable expectations. And who knows what hair would have looked like after all that exposure and who knows what kind of treatment done by the mortician, so I can't assign too much significance to what amounts to a few anecdotal reports from some funeral attendees, and not even all funeral attendees. Plus I'm quite certain that if UFOs had turned all of their hair really gray, don't you think the cold war Russian authorities would have had it colored back to normal for an open casket funeral? Their bodies had been exposed outdoors for weeks. Of course they looked terrible."
42_huh 13y ago
Going there next week for the trek :D But why is this trending on HN?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- narsil 13y ago
  HN tends to be popular in India at this hour.
pingou 13y ago
It doesn't make sense to me, why did the bodies only have wounds on the head and shoulders ? It seems intuitive that you protect your head with your hands and arms, as sudden as the hailstorm may have been, and once they collapsed to the ground their whole bodies should have been hit (although I guess their clothes could have protected them a bit) ?
- Ma8ee 13y ago
  My guess is that those are the only wounds that are visible on the bone. On most of the rest of the body the bones are protected by soft tissue.
  - pingou 13y ago
    Maybe but I don’t think there’s that much soft tissue protecting the hands. Maybe they were stoned, then digged up for some reason? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning That would explain why there wasn’t any survivor able to come back later to bury her comrades (if you curl you up I’m not sure how a hailstorm could be lethal to everyone in a big group)
    - Ma8ee 13y ago
      I think that it is probably hard to find enough hand bones to piece together to determine if they have been hit by something big and blunt after this many years.

134 points by aasarava 13y ago

Can one really die from hail? I have seen pretty big ones now and then, but usually one would cover their heads with their hands at least, to make it safely through it.

gauravk 13y ago
This should give some perspective :) : http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hail-no-an-account-of-the-worlds-biggest-deadliest-hailstorms http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/hail-no-an-account-of-t...
monsterix 13y ago
Yes, in Asia there have been deaths in sufficient numbers due to freak hailstorms. [1][2] Guess this has something to do with the first knock-off itself. [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271147/Nine-people-killed-freak-hailstorm-rains-massive-boulders-Indian-villages.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271147/Nine-people-... [2] http://www.mathrubhumi.com/english/story.php?id=136175 http://www.mathrubhumi.com/english/story.php?id=136175
- ekianjo 13y ago
  Can hail storms be predicted accurately by the way ?
  - monsterix 13y ago
    Possibly. There exist weather modelling and prediction techniques to assess the risk of hailstorm. A typical weather agency does do that already [1]. The key challenge here would always be to inform the disconnected locals in millions within a small area or region. A lot of equations fail when you consider the population density and economics of an average or below average citizen in Asia. [1] http://www.hailstormforecasts.com.au/ http://www.hailstormforecasts.com.au/
jlgreco 13y ago
9"/23cm hail would do you in pretty quick I would think. Even using my entire forearms I can only manage to partially cover my whole head. You'd be better off dropping down into the fetal position but if all the injuries were to the top of the head then it sounds like they didn't do that (maybe it started too quickly).
- roel_v 13y ago
  I think the comments to the article draw the correct conclusion - the author mixed up circumference with diameter, and the hail would have been 'only' 3 inches. Still pretty deadly, but not quite as terrifying as being bombarded with rock-hard soccer balls.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    Wow, mixing up circumference and diameter is pretty bad journalistic mistake.
- vacri 13y ago
  These people were travellers, not joggers. They likely would have had some items with which to shield their heads - packs, pans, spare heavy clothing. Perhaps they did, and there were more than 200 - the survivors making it of the pass.
rurounijones 13y ago
There was a tornado near my village in Belgium (Hardly the land of freak weather) which was preceeded by a hailstorm. The hail was only about an inch across or so. After the storm and tornado had gone through and we were outside evaluating the damage a man staggered into the village. He had been out jogging (Shorts and T-Shirt) when the hail fell and it looked like someone had beaten him all over his body (loads of individual Bruises, bleeding etc.). And this was only relatively small hail in the grand scheme of things. I can easily imagine hail being able to kill someone.

gauravk 13y ago

I was there at the site in 2010. It was an amazing trek (http://roopkund.com/ http://roopkund.com/). Right now, the forest officials are struggling to preserve the remains because tourist often like to take the skeletons back with them as souvenirs. Since the lake is far off and frozen for eight months in a year, it is difficult to guard the area. Most skeletons and bones have been stolen over the years with only a few skulls and bones remaining around the frozen lake.

ern 13y ago
Right now, the forest officials are struggling to preserve the remains because tourist often like to take the skeletons back with them as souvenirs. I that's happening, it is surprising that tourists can pass through customs with human remains, undetected.
- gauravk 13y ago
  Well... India is a large country with a growing middle class. It doesn't need foreign tourists to do the damage.
- mansigandhi 13y ago
  It's not like all the tourists in India are from abroad. The majority are Indians from other states. We travel too, you know.

maaku 13y ago

Great, now I have one more irrational fear.

reeses 13y ago
I'd say a fear of the color blue or clowns is irrational. A fear of earthquakes, snakes, and huge hailstorms is rational (if extremely unlikely to occur). Not to, you know, encourage your imminent agoraphobia.
Luyt 13y ago
Never leave home without your helmet and armored shoulder pads ;-)

tn13 13y ago

Even though this mystery is as good as solved, this mystery death remains still a mystery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyatlov_Pass_incident

verroq 13y ago
I'm going to go ahead and say Cracked.com is probably correct on this one - avalanche. http://www.cracked.com/article_16671_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-with-really-obvious-solutions.html http://www.cracked.com/article_16671_6-famous-unsolved-myste...
ekianjo 13y ago
Nice link - thanks for sharing.
Luyt 13y ago
There exists a Skeptoid episode about this: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108 http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4108 an excerpt: "Here is my proposed explanation of what happened. It's wrong, of course, because it's done from my armchair 50 years after the fact and with no firsthand knowledge of the region, but it's completely reasonable and does adequately satisfy the facts as we know them. Nine skiers set up camp in an area with potential avalanche danger, but no more or less danger than would have been found if they set up anywhere else they could have reached before nightfall. Sometime during the night, a loud noise, either from a nearby avalanche, a jet aircraft, or military ordnance, convinced at least five members of the group that an avalanche was bearing down on them. They burst out of the tent wearing whatever they happened to be sleeping in and ran. At some point one of them fell and struck his head on a rock. They became lost in the dark and poor visibility, or simply found themselves stranded with their injured friend, and finally built a fire. They quickly got hypothermia and probably shouted themselves hoarse for their friends. Two of them lost consciousness and the others made a desperation decision: To take what little clothes their two unconscious buddies had and risk it all to try and make it back to camp. One made it 300 meters, the second made it 480, and the third a full 630 meters before all five were dead from hypothermia. Back at camp, the four who didn't panic and run away in the night got dressed, collected provisions, and began to search for their friends. They searched for hours, circling high and low, until at some point either through a slip or just bad luck, they were caught in a real avalanche. During the resulting turmoil one received a fatal skull fracture, one received twelve broken ribs, and one bit her tongue off, all perfectly plausible injuries during such a traumatic death. Their bodies remained buried until the spring thaw, as is so common with avalanche victims. At the open-casket funeral for the first five victims, relatives saw the combination of five days of winter sunburn in those days before sunscreen, and the mortician's effort to cover up frostbite and a full month of exposure to the elements, and described it as a strange orange color; though others described it simply as a deep tan, which is consistent with reasonable expectations. And who knows what hair would have looked like after all that exposure and who knows what kind of treatment done by the mortician, so I can't assign too much significance to what amounts to a few anecdotal reports from some funeral attendees, and not even all funeral attendees. Plus I'm quite certain that if UFOs had turned all of their hair really gray, don't you think the cold war Russian authorities would have had it colored back to normal for an open casket funeral? Their bodies had been exposed outdoors for weeks. Of course they looked terrible."

42_huh 13y ago

Going there next week for the trek :D But why is this trending on HN?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
narsil 13y ago
HN tends to be popular in India at this hour.

pingou 13y ago

It doesn't make sense to me, why did the bodies only have wounds on the head and shoulders ? It seems intuitive that you protect your head with your hands and arms, as sudden as the hailstorm may have been, and once they collapsed to the ground their whole bodies should have been hit (although I guess their clothes could have protected them a bit) ?

Ma8ee 13y ago
My guess is that those are the only wounds that are visible on the bone. On most of the rest of the body the bones are protected by soft tissue.
- pingou 13y ago
  Maybe but I don’t think there’s that much soft tissue protecting the hands. Maybe they were stoned, then digged up for some reason? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning That would explain why there wasn’t any survivor able to come back later to bury her comrades (if you curl you up I’m not sure how a hailstorm could be lethal to everyone in a big group)
  - Ma8ee 13y ago
    I think that it is probably hard to find enough hand bones to piece together to determine if they have been hit by something big and blunt after this many years.