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I am sorry....I feel no sympathy. People need to understand that words have meaning. Just because 'free speech' is protected by the constitution doesn't mean t

I am sorry....I feel no sympathy. People need to understand that words have meaning. Just because 'free speech' is protected by the constitution doesn't mean that you can (and should) say any crap, at any time, without thinking about the consequence. When you say stuff like: fuck a boston bombing wait till you see the shit I do, Imma be famous for rapping and beat every murder charge that comes across me. Let's take a step back here, and assume for a minute that he REALLY was planning something - and not just talking tough. If he did it, and he posted this stuff on Facebook, and the FBI didn't do anything about it.....what would the fracas be then? The FBI is incompetent....they knew he would do it, yet they did nothing, etc, etc, etc. It's really a lose-lose for them. They can either take preventive measures, or do nothing in the name of 'free speech protection' and risk the chance that this latest bozo is actually going to follow up with action. Kudos to the FBI for taking this seriously and showing people you can't just say crap like this without any consequence. Living in a free society comes with a cost. Not saying that a recent terrorist event was "nothing" is one of those costs. It's simple really. Also, if you think you aren't living in a free society, try moving to Saudi Arabia, many countries in Africa, Cuba, Bolivia, many S. American countries, many eastern european countries, etc.

mindcrime 13y ago
Also, if you think you aren't living in a free society, try moving to Saudi Arabia, many countries in Africa, Cuba, Bolivia, many S. American countries, many eastern european countries, etc. Just because other countries are less free hardly proves that we are living in a free society. Maybe there is no free society on Earth? Kudos to the FBI for taking this seriously and showing people you can't just say crap like this without any consequence. I can't even begin to understand this mindset. In fact, it makes me a bit sick to hear somebody talk this way. But I suppose you think that if we all just sit back in the shadows, embrace fear, behave and do as the all mighty benevolent government tells us, then everything will be alright.
- marcamillion 13y ago
  I know it's an unpopular thing to hear....but freedom is a relative concept. You are only as free as compared to someone/something else. The world is a rough place, and is not a utopia. The fact is, people want to hurt the Western freedoms that many take for granted. Ignoring it, doesn't make those dangers go away. I am not defending everything the gov't does in the name of security, but the fact is that these challenges are not easy. They are doing the best they can. If they didn't act on it, and this kid did in fact do something, we would be having a COMPLETELY different conversation now. The reason these things are so tricky is because many of these attacks happen by 'lone wolves' which are almost impossible to stop. So as I said, this could have gone the other way - at which point I am sure you would be cursing the FBI for incompetence.
  - mindcrime 13y ago
    I know it's an unpopular thing to hear....but freedom is a relative concept. You are only as free as compared to someone/something else. That is the single most ridiculous thing I've ever heard uttered on HN. Freedom is binary, you are either subject to coercive force being applied to deny you your freedom of choice, or you're not. You can't be "sort of free" any more than you be "sort of pregnant". The fact is, people want to hurt the Western freedoms that many take for granted. Aaah, the "they hate us because we're free" bit. I hear that a lot, but haven't heard a plausible justification for it yet. From what I've seen, most of the non-westerners who are out to attack the West are mostly pissed off because we occupy lands they consider holy, invade their countries, depose their elected leaders, stage coups, supply weapons and training to "Group A" this week, then switch to considering "Group A" our enemy when it suits us, and generally meddle in their affairs. So as I said, this could have gone the other way - at which point I am sure you would be cursing the FBI for incompetence. No, exactly because I am fully aware of how difficult it is to prevent a single "lone wolf" actor from doing Bad Things. And as regrettable as that is, living in a free society has certain dangers that come along with it. Maybe in some hypothetical Unobtanialand you could impose a draconian dictatorship / totalitarian government sufficient to prevent all violent crime... but would anybody actually prefer to live there? I'm guessing "no". I don't know what it is with people today... as far as I'm concerned, "Give me Liberty or give me Death" isn't just some archaic catch-phrase to study in the history books... it is the very definition of what it means to live. If we aren't free, what else could matter more than trying to become so - even if it means dying in the process?
ewbuoi 13y ago
"Kudos to the FBI for taking this seriously and showing people you can't just say crap like this without any consequence. Living in a free society comes with a cost. ... Also, if you think you aren't living in a free society, try moving to Saudi Arabia, many countries in Africa, Cuba, Bolivia, many S. American countries, many eastern european countries, etc." I agree that living in a free society comes with a cost, but it's pretty clear that this man's right to free speech is being violated. Also, the fact that there are countries with horrible human rights violations doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the USA is truly a "free society."
- marcamillion 13y ago
  * Also, the fact that there are countries with horrible human rights violations doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the USA is truly a "free society."* A free society is a relative term. Free from tyranny, free from government oppression. Free from gov't interference. Those are all relative to those things happening (or happened) elsewhere. Regardless, I hear you on his rights being violated. Let's assume for a minute that this was a credible threat and the FBI didn't follow up on it like this. Let's say he did do another bombing and killed 20 people, who would you blame?
  - prutschman 13y ago
    I would blame the bomber.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    >Let's assume for a minute that this was a credible threat It wasn't, which renders the whole rest of your point moot. The kind of bad logic you're espousing is exactly what gets us zero tolerance laws, that in which any means are acceptable, no matter how absurd, if what it's preventing is bad enough. It's outsourcing of judgement, something which has shades of grey, to a law, which has only black and white. This is not EVER a good idea. How far are you willing to go stop a school shooting? Trample all over the first AND second amendments? Put the TSA at the front entrance of every school? I find it very.... odd, that someone who can grok the nuance that "freedom" is a relative term is unable to understand that same nuance applies to other things as well.
SoftwareMaven 13y ago
So a kid should spend 20 years in prison? I call complete and total BS. When you can't prove that any actual action might be taken in any way, it is a thoughtcrime. The problem with thoughtcrime is you can't defend yourself. You never know what thought will be labeled a crime today. Nobody is ever safe. Yes, the US isn't Africa, Cuba, Bolivia, etc. The problem is that it is heading in the wrong direction. We are becoming more hate filled, more suspicious, less empathetic, more of a police state, and more tyrannical. That the first derivative of these things is heading in the negative direction is exceedingly worrying because the acceleration curve tends to steepen, and, as a result, the tyranny grows rapidly. The lack of empathy you've displayed is exactly the problem. More concern for "just desserts" than for compassion and humanity.
rayiner 13y ago
As far as I can tell, it was the local PD, not the FBI. Correct me if I'm wrong.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
RexRollman 13y ago
People like you are how rights are lost.
mikeash 13y ago
I think we should jail people who say that abuse in the US is fine because we're still better than Saudi Arabia. It's seriously harmful to say nonsense like that, so it's fine to jail people who say it, right?

mindcrime 13y ago

Also, if you think you aren't living in a free society, try moving to Saudi Arabia, many countries in Africa, Cuba, Bolivia, many S. American countries, many eastern european countries, etc. Just because other countries are less free hardly proves that we are living in a free society. Maybe there is no free society on Earth? Kudos to the FBI for taking this seriously and showing people you can't just say crap like this without any consequence. I can't even begin to understand this mindset. In fact, it makes me a bit sick to hear somebody talk this way. But I suppose you think that if we all just sit back in the shadows, embrace fear, behave and do as the all mighty benevolent government tells us, then everything will be alright.

marcamillion 13y ago
I know it's an unpopular thing to hear....but freedom is a relative concept. You are only as free as compared to someone/something else. The world is a rough place, and is not a utopia. The fact is, people want to hurt the Western freedoms that many take for granted. Ignoring it, doesn't make those dangers go away. I am not defending everything the gov't does in the name of security, but the fact is that these challenges are not easy. They are doing the best they can. If they didn't act on it, and this kid did in fact do something, we would be having a COMPLETELY different conversation now. The reason these things are so tricky is because many of these attacks happen by 'lone wolves' which are almost impossible to stop. So as I said, this could have gone the other way - at which point I am sure you would be cursing the FBI for incompetence.
- mindcrime 13y ago
  I know it's an unpopular thing to hear....but freedom is a relative concept. You are only as free as compared to someone/something else. That is the single most ridiculous thing I've ever heard uttered on HN. Freedom is binary, you are either subject to coercive force being applied to deny you your freedom of choice, or you're not. You can't be "sort of free" any more than you be "sort of pregnant". The fact is, people want to hurt the Western freedoms that many take for granted. Aaah, the "they hate us because we're free" bit. I hear that a lot, but haven't heard a plausible justification for it yet. From what I've seen, most of the non-westerners who are out to attack the West are mostly pissed off because we occupy lands they consider holy, invade their countries, depose their elected leaders, stage coups, supply weapons and training to "Group A" this week, then switch to considering "Group A" our enemy when it suits us, and generally meddle in their affairs. So as I said, this could have gone the other way - at which point I am sure you would be cursing the FBI for incompetence. No, exactly because I am fully aware of how difficult it is to prevent a single "lone wolf" actor from doing Bad Things. And as regrettable as that is, living in a free society has certain dangers that come along with it. Maybe in some hypothetical Unobtanialand you could impose a draconian dictatorship / totalitarian government sufficient to prevent all violent crime... but would anybody actually prefer to live there? I'm guessing "no". I don't know what it is with people today... as far as I'm concerned, "Give me Liberty or give me Death" isn't just some archaic catch-phrase to study in the history books... it is the very definition of what it means to live. If we aren't free, what else could matter more than trying to become so - even if it means dying in the process?

ewbuoi 13y ago

"Kudos to the FBI for taking this seriously and showing people you can't just say crap like this without any consequence. Living in a free society comes with a cost. ... Also, if you think you aren't living in a free society, try moving to Saudi Arabia, many countries in Africa, Cuba, Bolivia, many S. American countries, many eastern european countries, etc." I agree that living in a free society comes with a cost, but it's pretty clear that this man's right to free speech is being violated. Also, the fact that there are countries with horrible human rights violations doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the USA is truly a "free society."

marcamillion 13y ago
* Also, the fact that there are countries with horrible human rights violations doesn't have anything to do with whether or not the USA is truly a "free society."* A free society is a relative term. Free from tyranny, free from government oppression. Free from gov't interference. Those are all relative to those things happening (or happened) elsewhere. Regardless, I hear you on his rights being violated. Let's assume for a minute that this was a credible threat and the FBI didn't follow up on it like this. Let's say he did do another bombing and killed 20 people, who would you blame?
- prutschman 13y ago
  I would blame the bomber.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  >Let's assume for a minute that this was a credible threat It wasn't, which renders the whole rest of your point moot. The kind of bad logic you're espousing is exactly what gets us zero tolerance laws, that in which any means are acceptable, no matter how absurd, if what it's preventing is bad enough. It's outsourcing of judgement, something which has shades of grey, to a law, which has only black and white. This is not EVER a good idea. How far are you willing to go stop a school shooting? Trample all over the first AND second amendments? Put the TSA at the front entrance of every school? I find it very.... odd, that someone who can grok the nuance that "freedom" is a relative term is unable to understand that same nuance applies to other things as well.

SoftwareMaven 13y ago

So a kid should spend 20 years in prison? I call complete and total BS. When you can't prove that any actual action might be taken in any way, it is a thoughtcrime. The problem with thoughtcrime is you can't defend yourself. You never know what thought will be labeled a crime today. Nobody is ever safe. Yes, the US isn't Africa, Cuba, Bolivia, etc. The problem is that it is heading in the wrong direction. We are becoming more hate filled, more suspicious, less empathetic, more of a police state, and more tyrannical. That the first derivative of these things is heading in the negative direction is exceedingly worrying because the acceleration curve tends to steepen, and, as a result, the tyranny grows rapidly. The lack of empathy you've displayed is exactly the problem. More concern for "just desserts" than for compassion and humanity.

rayiner 13y ago

As far as I can tell, it was the local PD, not the FBI. Correct me if I'm wrong.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

RexRollman 13y ago

People like you are how rights are lost.

mikeash 13y ago

I think we should jail people who say that abuse in the US is fine because we're still better than Saudi Arabia. It's seriously harmful to say nonsense like that, so it's fine to jail people who say it, right?