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Are you sure you want us to do this? We are in the start of the greater depression, the yuppies you want to sell to no longer have money. Wine, travel, Lifesty

Are you sure you want us to do this? We are in the start of the greater depression, the yuppies you want to sell to no longer have money. Wine, travel, Lifestyle/keeping up with the jones' is now considered tacky. Business plan trashed. Sorry.

thomaspaine 18y ago
Calling any business that caters to a middle or upper middle class lifestyle tacky seems a little short sighted to me. Yes, times are rough and people are currently cutting back on this kind of thing because this sector of the economy is heavily affected by business cycles. The timing might not be the best, but that isn't to say that in the long run this type of business can't succeed, or maybe even succeed to a lesser extent in the short run. I mean, what kind of entrepreneur would you be if you thought that your business was only viable during booms.
- Tichy 18y ago
  I must admit my feeling is that it is tacky, too. Of course that doesn't imply that there is no market (I don't know). But come on: adventure, but at the same time drinking the best wine and food and probably driving around in a really comfy car. What kind of adventure is that? A tacky kind... I can only say that it doesn't appeal to me at all, I am more into creating things than consuming things (travel can be very passive, sort of like TV, only that you move around yourself instead of the image moving).
woodsier 18y ago
I disagree. There will always be yuppies who have money. In times of depression they are the least effected group (relatively).
- spitfire 18y ago
  Normally I would agree. But the circumstances of the current depression are different. There was such a bubble in the middle classes due to living on credit that the yuppies in particular will be hit very, very, very, very hard. See AMEX's recent earnings conference call for details. The fact is that for years people were living the life not based on real earnings, but on credit. And those that were living on real earning were often earning money from those who were spending on credit. When credit goes away as it has, both groups become poor. Hence yuppies become poor. The price deflation of mid/upper range houses, bmw's, audi's, hotel rooms, travel, wine and jewlery shows this clearly. PS: Could you please provide some proof that yuppies fair well in depressions/recessions? My evidence suggest they're usually the ones in the middle of whatever bubble activity. As is certainly the case currently. EDIT: Added extra Very's for emphasis.
- patio11 18y ago
  Nine out of ten yuppies, or more, will make as much money in 2009 as they did in 2008. They can still afford their mortgages. Consumer confidence aside, tell me why they're going to suddenly stop shopping at Whole Foods, buying organic, drinking wine, and otherwise displaying upper middle-class tastes in food consumption.
  - spitfire 18y ago
    Yuppies are being absolutely pounded. They can't spend on credit or rely on an ever increasing stock market to fund their lifestyle. Please provide proof that 9/10 yuppies will be fine. I don't buy it for a second. I've got my own analytics which suggest otherwise. Consumer savings rate going up. http://www.creditloan.com/blog/consumers-saving-instead-of-spending/ http://www.creditloan.com/blog/consumers-saving-instead-of-s... bmw sales plunge http://silverscorpio.com/bmw-reports-plunge-in-sales-as-economic-crisis-deepens/ http://silverscorpio.com/bmw-reports-plunge-in-sales-as-econ... wine sales plunge http://wineindustryinsight.com/?p=2073 http://wineindustryinsight.com/?p=2073 hotel occupancy off 11% http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/CalculatedRisk/~3/-j6_abqDrqc/hotel-occupancy-off-11.html http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/CalculatedRisk/~3/-j6_abqDrqc... housing delinquencies move into prime. http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnalysis/~3/zeXrN0JejR4/fannie-freddie-delinquencies-soar-and.html http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnaly...
    - Confusion 18y ago
      Those numbers are all across the entire population, while this site is only aiming at the high segment. The question is whether sales of the BMW X5, St. Emilion Grand Cru 1986 and the Bride Suite of the Ritz have also dropped.
      - spitfire 18y ago
        Hamptons real estate high end enough for you? http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/04/hamptons_real_estate_market_of.html http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/04/hamptons_real_estate_ma... Same thing going on in other (supposedly) rich peoples enclaves. and yes, High end champange's have been hit. As has the bride suite. Now, the true high end market has not. But those people are not even watching your shitty cable tv show. They'll be calling quintesentially[1] and telling them to book a vacation. I should also note that Bentley sales are down. But not across the board. Only the new-money models - continental gt/flying spur. So everything aspirational from your low end bmw 3-series, all the way up to your nouveau riche Bentley's are being slammed. I don't have room to post my full analysis - I have actually run serious numbers on this. But the yuppie/aspirational class are really, seriously getting smashed. I would not start a business based on their greed and consumption right now. Now would be a fantastic time to start a do-it-yourself channel or travel/luxury on the cheap. [1] http://www.quintessentially.com/ http://www.quintessentially.com/
anigbrowl 18y ago
Thanks - no need to apologize. I do think you overlooked 2 things (or I didn't bring them out strongly enough): 1- entertaining doesn't have to be expensive to be impressive 2- throwing a dinner party or a garden party is a cheap and effective way to network But your point is well taken.
- spitfire 18y ago
  Then you need to rebrand your program. Anything that even slightly has the smell o "lifestyle" is tacky these days. It is not cool to be aspirational these days. As I mentioned a do-it-yourself or travel/luxury on the cheap program would be fantastic right now. Sell it as such. Keeping up with the jones' is over for at least a decade.
  - anigbrowl 18y ago
    Agreed. The program is overtly cost-conscious and I've made a lot of changes to bring out the 'caring and sharing' values of having guests to dinner rather than the aspirational ones. all the feedback from you and others has been studied carefully, and gratefully.

thomaspaine 18y ago

Calling any business that caters to a middle or upper middle class lifestyle tacky seems a little short sighted to me. Yes, times are rough and people are currently cutting back on this kind of thing because this sector of the economy is heavily affected by business cycles. The timing might not be the best, but that isn't to say that in the long run this type of business can't succeed, or maybe even succeed to a lesser extent in the short run. I mean, what kind of entrepreneur would you be if you thought that your business was only viable during booms.

Tichy 18y ago
I must admit my feeling is that it is tacky, too. Of course that doesn't imply that there is no market (I don't know). But come on: adventure, but at the same time drinking the best wine and food and probably driving around in a really comfy car. What kind of adventure is that? A tacky kind... I can only say that it doesn't appeal to me at all, I am more into creating things than consuming things (travel can be very passive, sort of like TV, only that you move around yourself instead of the image moving).

woodsier 18y ago

I disagree. There will always be yuppies who have money. In times of depression they are the least effected group (relatively).

spitfire 18y ago
Normally I would agree. But the circumstances of the current depression are different. There was such a bubble in the middle classes due to living on credit that the yuppies in particular will be hit very, very, very, very hard. See AMEX's recent earnings conference call for details. The fact is that for years people were living the life not based on real earnings, but on credit. And those that were living on real earning were often earning money from those who were spending on credit. When credit goes away as it has, both groups become poor. Hence yuppies become poor. The price deflation of mid/upper range houses, bmw's, audi's, hotel rooms, travel, wine and jewlery shows this clearly. PS: Could you please provide some proof that yuppies fair well in depressions/recessions? My evidence suggest they're usually the ones in the middle of whatever bubble activity. As is certainly the case currently. EDIT: Added extra Very's for emphasis.
patio11 18y ago
Nine out of ten yuppies, or more, will make as much money in 2009 as they did in 2008. They can still afford their mortgages. Consumer confidence aside, tell me why they're going to suddenly stop shopping at Whole Foods, buying organic, drinking wine, and otherwise displaying upper middle-class tastes in food consumption.
- spitfire 18y ago
  Yuppies are being absolutely pounded. They can't spend on credit or rely on an ever increasing stock market to fund their lifestyle. Please provide proof that 9/10 yuppies will be fine. I don't buy it for a second. I've got my own analytics which suggest otherwise. Consumer savings rate going up. http://www.creditloan.com/blog/consumers-saving-instead-of-spending/ http://www.creditloan.com/blog/consumers-saving-instead-of-s... bmw sales plunge http://silverscorpio.com/bmw-reports-plunge-in-sales-as-economic-crisis-deepens/ http://silverscorpio.com/bmw-reports-plunge-in-sales-as-econ... wine sales plunge http://wineindustryinsight.com/?p=2073 http://wineindustryinsight.com/?p=2073 hotel occupancy off 11% http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/CalculatedRisk/~3/-j6_abqDrqc/hotel-occupancy-off-11.html http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/CalculatedRisk/~3/-j6_abqDrqc... housing delinquencies move into prime. http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnalysis/~3/zeXrN0JejR4/fannie-freddie-delinquencies-soar-and.html http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnaly...
  - Confusion 18y ago
    Those numbers are all across the entire population, while this site is only aiming at the high segment. The question is whether sales of the BMW X5, St. Emilion Grand Cru 1986 and the Bride Suite of the Ritz have also dropped.
    - spitfire 18y ago
      Hamptons real estate high end enough for you? http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/04/hamptons_real_estate_market_of.html http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2009/04/hamptons_real_estate_ma... Same thing going on in other (supposedly) rich peoples enclaves. and yes, High end champange's have been hit. As has the bride suite. Now, the true high end market has not. But those people are not even watching your shitty cable tv show. They'll be calling quintesentially[1] and telling them to book a vacation. I should also note that Bentley sales are down. But not across the board. Only the new-money models - continental gt/flying spur. So everything aspirational from your low end bmw 3-series, all the way up to your nouveau riche Bentley's are being slammed. I don't have room to post my full analysis - I have actually run serious numbers on this. But the yuppie/aspirational class are really, seriously getting smashed. I would not start a business based on their greed and consumption right now. Now would be a fantastic time to start a do-it-yourself channel or travel/luxury on the cheap. [1] http://www.quintessentially.com/ http://www.quintessentially.com/

anigbrowl 18y ago

Thanks - no need to apologize. I do think you overlooked 2 things (or I didn't bring them out strongly enough): 1- entertaining doesn't have to be expensive to be impressive 2- throwing a dinner party or a garden party is a cheap and effective way to network But your point is well taken.

spitfire 18y ago
Then you need to rebrand your program. Anything that even slightly has the smell o "lifestyle" is tacky these days. It is not cool to be aspirational these days. As I mentioned a do-it-yourself or travel/luxury on the cheap program would be fantastic right now. Sell it as such. Keeping up with the jones' is over for at least a decade.
- anigbrowl 18y ago
  Agreed. The program is overtly cost-conscious and I've made a lot of changes to bring out the 'caring and sharing' values of having guests to dinner rather than the aspirational ones. all the feedback from you and others has been studied carefully, and gratefully.