4 ms·

Like I said earlier, it's pretty clear that the path they're following now is diminishing their influence. This page lists a variety of measures of browser usa

Like I said earlier, it's pretty clear that the path they're following now is diminishing their influence. This page lists a variety of measures of browser usage share: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers Notice that over the past several years, in each data set, that Firefox's usage has dropped off, or at best not grown. People are leaving Firefox because it's not improving, and because it is actually getting worse in many ways for many people. If we're going to get the Chrome experience even when using Firefox, but done in an inferior fashion, we may as well just use Chrome. I expect we'd see a similar, if not more severe, drop off in Thunderbird's usage numbers. I've personally moved to a different client within the past year, and I know several other people who have, too. There's nothing compelling about FirefoxOS compared to Android, iOS, or the incumbents. Average people will not switch to it. Without these people, it won't gain traction, and Mozilla will still have limited to no influence in the mobile space. And the same goes for Persona. It has been around for a few years now, but average people aren't using it, nor does it look like there's any reason they'd want to. "Openness" may be a noble goal, but I think they had much more influence when they were producing software that people liked to use because it worked well. The move away from this has corresponded to a decrease in their influence, and much greater influence for Google, Apple, Microsoft and even Opera.

emilsedgh 13y ago
Ok, so Mozilla suddenly got a very heavyweight competetion from Chrome, fell behind and now is trying to catchup. What is so wrong about that?
- PommeDeTerre 13y ago
  Nothing is wrong with competition. Their response to it, however, clearly isn't working in their favor. Their apparent lack of willingness to move away from this failed path is further hurting them. If they don't provide quality software, then they won't have users. If they don't have users, then they won't have influence. If they don't have influence, they don't have any real power to assert their "open web" philosophy. The less power that Mozilla has, the more power their competitors will share, including those with a much different philosophy.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    If they don't have influence, they don't have any real power to assert their "open web" philosophy A philosophy does not assert itself by having power, it reveals its value (or lack thereof) to the honest thinker, and has that value regardless of the existence of such thinkers.
    - PommeDeTerre 13y ago
      That kind of thinking is nice and all in the academic world, but in the real world a philosophy is absolutely useless unless some person or organization has the ability to put those ideas in to practice. By losing market share, Mozilla is losing influence, which will inhibit their ability to introduce more "openness". Their philosophy will become far less useful, and its value will decrease, if it can't actually be implemented.
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        Why are you putting open into quotes? Anyway, the Nineteen-Eightyfour approach to what is true or right never did it for me.. utilitarian love for wisdom is not something that can actually exist.
JohnBooty 13y ago
> "People are leaving Firefox because it's not > improving, and because it is actually getting > worse in many ways for many people" If we're pointing to market share as a barometer of browser quality, then I guess Internet Explorer is the best browser in the world. There is no doubt some people are leaving FF for Chrome because of real/perceived issues with the tech itself. A significant number of people are discovering Chrome directly or indirectly because of: 1. Google advertises Chrome to its users on its search portal and its other massively popular web properties. 2. Google's massive presence in the tech press 3. Google's advertising for Chromebook devices 4. Indirectly, though the absolutely massive multinational ad campaign for Android devices 5. The hundreds of millions of people that use Chrome on their Android devices 6. Chrome's integration with the rest of Google's ecosystem 7. Google's status as a household world at this point. ("Let's see, I've heard of Google. This software must be okay. I do not know what a 'Mozilla' is and my daughter told me not to install things from companies I've never heard of.") All extremely significant factors in the browser market share shift, and all avenues that Mozilla cannot rely on. And despite all of this, there are signs that Chrome's market share may have reached a plateau, with FF actually showing a small gain against Chrome this month: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/01/ie10-doubles-market-share-thanks-to-windows-7-debut-pushing-ie9-below-20-as-firefox-gains-and-chrome-loses/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/01/ie10-doubles-market...
- rimantas 13y ago
  > If we're pointing to market share as a barometer of > browser quality, then I guess Internet Explorer is the > best browser in the world. You should check your numbers. And yes, when IE initially achieved pick market share it was the best browser.
- cpeterso 13y ago
  Chrome was also bundled with Adobe Flash Player installer for Windows, I.e. you download Flash and, if you didn't uncheck the check box, Chrome is set as your default browser.
st3fan 13y ago
Notice that over the past several years, in each data set, that Firefox's usage has dropped off, or at best not grown. The Mozilla Manifesto has nothing to do with Market Share. Any dent that Mozilla is able to make in the fabric of the non-open web is a win.
- lifeisstillgood 13y ago
  Thank you - I was just beginning to wonder if the other side was actually right, when you reminded me there are two games - market share and free speech. You don't have to rule the world before fixing it.
mwcampbell 13y ago
Mozilla may have lost the current battle for influence in the developed world, but with Firefox OS and the accompanying partnerships with carriers, Mozilla is aiming to bring Web-centric mobile devices to the developing world. I can only hope that they haven't already lost this battle, and that the people they hope to reach with Firefox OS value their freedom over hot brands, trendy walled-garden social networks, and having all of the latest features that are exclusive to proprietary systems.

emilsedgh 13y ago

Ok, so Mozilla suddenly got a very heavyweight competetion from Chrome, fell behind and now is trying to catchup. What is so wrong about that?

PommeDeTerre 13y ago
Nothing is wrong with competition. Their response to it, however, clearly isn't working in their favor. Their apparent lack of willingness to move away from this failed path is further hurting them. If they don't provide quality software, then they won't have users. If they don't have users, then they won't have influence. If they don't have influence, they don't have any real power to assert their "open web" philosophy. The less power that Mozilla has, the more power their competitors will share, including those with a much different philosophy.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  If they don't have influence, they don't have any real power to assert their "open web" philosophy A philosophy does not assert itself by having power, it reveals its value (or lack thereof) to the honest thinker, and has that value regardless of the existence of such thinkers.
  - PommeDeTerre 13y ago
    That kind of thinking is nice and all in the academic world, but in the real world a philosophy is absolutely useless unless some person or organization has the ability to put those ideas in to practice. By losing market share, Mozilla is losing influence, which will inhibit their ability to introduce more "openness". Their philosophy will become far less useful, and its value will decrease, if it can't actually be implemented.
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      Why are you putting open into quotes? Anyway, the Nineteen-Eightyfour approach to what is true or right never did it for me.. utilitarian love for wisdom is not something that can actually exist.

JohnBooty 13y ago

> "People are leaving Firefox because it's not > improving, and because it is actually getting > worse in many ways for many people" If we're pointing to market share as a barometer of browser quality, then I guess Internet Explorer is the best browser in the world. There is no doubt some people are leaving FF for Chrome because of real/perceived issues with the tech itself. A significant number of people are discovering Chrome directly or indirectly because of: 1. Google advertises Chrome to its users on its search portal and its other massively popular web properties. 2. Google's massive presence in the tech press 3. Google's advertising for Chromebook devices 4. Indirectly, though the absolutely massive multinational ad campaign for Android devices 5. The hundreds of millions of people that use Chrome on their Android devices 6. Chrome's integration with the rest of Google's ecosystem 7. Google's status as a household world at this point. ("Let's see, I've heard of Google. This software must be okay. I do not know what a 'Mozilla' is and my daughter told me not to install things from companies I've never heard of.") All extremely significant factors in the browser market share shift, and all avenues that Mozilla cannot rely on. And despite all of this, there are signs that Chrome's market share may have reached a plateau, with FF actually showing a small gain against Chrome this month: http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/01/ie10-doubles-market-share-thanks-to-windows-7-debut-pushing-ie9-below-20-as-firefox-gains-and-chrome-loses/ http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/05/01/ie10-doubles-market...

rimantas 13y ago
> If we're pointing to market share as a barometer of > browser quality, then I guess Internet Explorer is the > best browser in the world. You should check your numbers. And yes, when IE initially achieved pick market share it was the best browser.
cpeterso 13y ago
Chrome was also bundled with Adobe Flash Player installer for Windows, I.e. you download Flash and, if you didn't uncheck the check box, Chrome is set as your default browser.

st3fan 13y ago

Notice that over the past several years, in each data set, that Firefox's usage has dropped off, or at best not grown. The Mozilla Manifesto has nothing to do with Market Share. Any dent that Mozilla is able to make in the fabric of the non-open web is a win.

lifeisstillgood 13y ago
Thank you - I was just beginning to wonder if the other side was actually right, when you reminded me there are two games - market share and free speech. You don't have to rule the world before fixing it.

mwcampbell 13y ago

Mozilla may have lost the current battle for influence in the developed world, but with Firefox OS and the accompanying partnerships with carriers, Mozilla is aiming to bring Web-centric mobile devices to the developing world. I can only hope that they haven't already lost this battle, and that the people they hope to reach with Firefox OS value their freedom over hot brands, trendy walled-garden social networks, and having all of the latest features that are exclusive to proprietary systems.