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HTML5 is a fixed standard - I assume you mean something else by that. the lines between OS/VM/browser are blurring more and more. I find what Rich Hickey is say

HTML5 is a fixed standard - I assume you mean something else by that. the lines between OS/VM/browser are blurring more and more. I find what Rich Hickey is saying really interesting. to me the next great step is dynamic computing. so the stuff that Bret Victor is doing is going to be huge IMO. defining dynamic behavior and services is the future, not so much widgets and mouse actions.

dualogy 13y ago
Got some kind of links to "what Rich Hickey is saying" (who?) and "Bret Victor is doing" (who?) for us mere mortals? ;)
- bachback 13y ago
  clojure.org and worrydream.com. Rich has talks on youtube and Bret on vimeo (accessible via his website). What I mean is that if one thinks in widgets and DOM this is already tied to a particular way of thinking about computing. For instance d3.js and others manipulate the DOM, so that you have more or less a scripting of static content. There is real power in combining user interaction and scripting making it a two-way channel. My instant reaction to this talk is they really took the whole to an extreme, where the absurdity should become obvious. The next big thing is not going to come from Google (obviously). Perhaps I'm just ignorant.
magicalist 13y ago
You should read the article (and avoid being so dismissive). Functionality like Mutation Observers are exactly the kind of abstractions that will make "dynamic behavior and services" (as vague as that is) all the easier. Also, maybe you have a weird definition for "widget", but go watch Bret's latest talk. It's all widgets. And it's certainly not dynamic magic; we can build interfaces like that, but more and better tools to make building them easier are a very good thing. I'm personally really excited from what I've seen of Polymer, and even more excited about its mostly decoupled design (and the polyfill-until-standardized approach the GP comment mentions), allowing you to pick and choose what you want to use without committing to some huge (and "opinionated") framework.
- ajtaylor 13y ago
  You've hit the nail on the head. Every website these days has widgets, for lack of a better word, that are reused all over the place. Anything we can do to make it easier to package up those widgets so I can drop them in place on a new html page is A Good Thing IMHO. Opinionated frameworks are great, until you need to do something they didn't anticipate. If you're lucky it's easy to work around, and if you're not then welcome to your latest nightmare. The whole polyfill concept is exactly what the world needs to allow browsers to grow and mature at different rates.
coldtea 13y ago
>HTML5 is a fixed standard - I assume you mean something else by that. No, it's not. I'm sure you had something else in mind by that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#Plan_2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#Plan_2014
- bachback 13y ago
  Thanks for pointing that out. My understanding of standard was that it is something which is agreed upon and then used. But now this standard is some kind of irreversible pre-standard. More on this is going with web-components: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/polymer-dev/4RSYaKmbtEk https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/polymer-...

dualogy 13y ago

Got some kind of links to "what Rich Hickey is saying" (who?) and "Bret Victor is doing" (who?) for us mere mortals? ;)

bachback 13y ago
clojure.org and worrydream.com. Rich has talks on youtube and Bret on vimeo (accessible via his website). What I mean is that if one thinks in widgets and DOM this is already tied to a particular way of thinking about computing. For instance d3.js and others manipulate the DOM, so that you have more or less a scripting of static content. There is real power in combining user interaction and scripting making it a two-way channel. My instant reaction to this talk is they really took the whole to an extreme, where the absurdity should become obvious. The next big thing is not going to come from Google (obviously). Perhaps I'm just ignorant.

magicalist 13y ago

You should read the article (and avoid being so dismissive). Functionality like Mutation Observers are exactly the kind of abstractions that will make "dynamic behavior and services" (as vague as that is) all the easier. Also, maybe you have a weird definition for "widget", but go watch Bret's latest talk. It's all widgets. And it's certainly not dynamic magic; we can build interfaces like that, but more and better tools to make building them easier are a very good thing. I'm personally really excited from what I've seen of Polymer, and even more excited about its mostly decoupled design (and the polyfill-until-standardized approach the GP comment mentions), allowing you to pick and choose what you want to use without committing to some huge (and "opinionated") framework.

ajtaylor 13y ago
You've hit the nail on the head. Every website these days has widgets, for lack of a better word, that are reused all over the place. Anything we can do to make it easier to package up those widgets so I can drop them in place on a new html page is A Good Thing IMHO. Opinionated frameworks are great, until you need to do something they didn't anticipate. If you're lucky it's easy to work around, and if you're not then welcome to your latest nightmare. The whole polyfill concept is exactly what the world needs to allow browsers to grow and mature at different rates.

coldtea 13y ago

>HTML5 is a fixed standard - I assume you mean something else by that. No, it's not. I'm sure you had something else in mind by that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#Plan_2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5#Plan_2014

bachback 13y ago
Thanks for pointing that out. My understanding of standard was that it is something which is agreed upon and then used. But now this standard is some kind of irreversible pre-standard. More on this is going with web-components: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/polymer-dev/4RSYaKmbtEk https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/polymer-...