4 ms·

I've quite a bit of finance tech experience in London, and my brother is a SAP recruiter, and the biggest thing I've learned is that most developers undercharge

by dmmalam 13y ago

I've quite a bit of finance tech experience in London, and my brother is a SAP recruiter, and the biggest thing I've learned is that most developers undercharge. There are many good devs paid $600/day, being marked up to $1500+ by agencies. Often it may go through several different agencies because one isn't on the preferred list and get marked up at every stage. If you want to make $200/h+ and your a decent hacker, my advice would be to perfect selling yourself. Like any other sales, learn you anchor it on the value they get not your cost. Use the fear of them not meeting deadlines because they got an 'inferior' cheaper dev. Most recruiting managers are not spending their own money and have budget, but THEY will be the one the line if their project f's up. The value to them is important. They don't pay you to be a great programmer, they pay you because they have a problem which needs code to fix. This explains why Excel VBA devs with some domain knowledge can charge $1000/day at investment banks for being a 'tactical problem solver' ie quickly hacking up neat spreadsheets for traders/analysts. The big consultancies entire business is sending out £2000/day 'experts' who are just fresh out of college CS grads. It's absolutely insane how much big enterprise/ government are paying for substandard tech contractors. If your specialised and that speciality is in vogue, then double up twice. Kdb specialists were being paid $10k a day by several investment banks. Many algo trading devs can charge that high, especially if they have low level (FPGA/GPU) experience.

lsc 13y ago
>If you want to make $200/h+ and your a decent hacker, my advice would be to perfect selling yourself. so... my understanding? your first line explains why this selling is so hard: >Often it may go through several different agencies because one isn't on the preferred list and get marked up at every stage. The thing is? if you are on that 'preferred list' you essentially have a licence to print money, because it's goddamn difficult to get on those lists. I've seen consulting companies that are run out of some guy's house with no assets sell for substantial money because they had somehow gotten on to a preferred vendor list at a large company. As you point out, at that point you get to act as a gatekeeper, and impose significant markup on all labour.
- dmmalam 13y ago
  Selling is hard because most devs aren't used to it. That's why agents exists; they can often get you a higher rate even after their 20-40% cut. Most companies have a preferred list of agencies/consultancies, but they are not obliged to use them. If they find the perfect person, they can hire them. As a career contractor you need a really good agent, or ideally master the skills of a really good agent (ie sales). You need to build and maintain a network of previous managers who know how good you are, and actually call you for work. It takes time, but is by no means impossible for the average HN user.
  - lsc 13y ago
    >As a career contractor you need a really good agent, or ideally master the skills of a really good agent (ie sales). You need to build and maintain a network of previous managers who know how good you are, and actually call you for work. It takes time, but is by no means impossible for the average HN user. I get managers I've contracted for in the past calling me, but they always make me go through a third party agency for the pay, so I think these preferred lists are more important than you think. (I have a corporation with 4 employees, 3 fullish-time, counting me, and the total revenue would make what I'm getting paid as a consultant look small, so I believe I'd be on the correct side of Section 1706.) I have not heard of contractors in my industry having "agents" - I mean, sure, there are body shops that I can call or that will call me; is that what you mean? The body shops work for the clients, though, not the consultants.
    - dmmalam 13y ago
      They may make you go through a preferred agency for payroll/invoicing, but any fees they add should be passed back to the employer, not met by you. Typical enterprise/gov BS, needlessly adding 10-20% to the cost. By agents I mean 'recruitment consultants', that's what they are called in London (along with pimps). Most people hate dealing with them, but they are a necessary evil.
      - lsc 13y ago

by dmmalam 13y ago

lsc 13y ago

>If you want to make $200/h+ and your a decent hacker, my advice would be to perfect selling yourself. so... my understanding? your first line explains why this selling is so hard: >Often it may go through several different agencies because one isn't on the preferred list and get marked up at every stage. The thing is? if you are on that 'preferred list' you essentially have a licence to print money, because it's goddamn difficult to get on those lists. I've seen consulting companies that are run out of some guy's house with no assets sell for substantial money because they had somehow gotten on to a preferred vendor list at a large company. As you point out, at that point you get to act as a gatekeeper, and impose significant markup on all labour.

dmmalam 13y ago
Selling is hard because most devs aren't used to it. That's why agents exists; they can often get you a higher rate even after their 20-40% cut. Most companies have a preferred list of agencies/consultancies, but they are not obliged to use them. If they find the perfect person, they can hire them. As a career contractor you need a really good agent, or ideally master the skills of a really good agent (ie sales). You need to build and maintain a network of previous managers who know how good you are, and actually call you for work. It takes time, but is by no means impossible for the average HN user.
- lsc 13y ago
  >As a career contractor you need a really good agent, or ideally master the skills of a really good agent (ie sales). You need to build and maintain a network of previous managers who know how good you are, and actually call you for work. It takes time, but is by no means impossible for the average HN user. I get managers I've contracted for in the past calling me, but they always make me go through a third party agency for the pay, so I think these preferred lists are more important than you think. (I have a corporation with 4 employees, 3 fullish-time, counting me, and the total revenue would make what I'm getting paid as a consultant look small, so I believe I'd be on the correct side of Section 1706.) I have not heard of contractors in my industry having "agents" - I mean, sure, there are body shops that I can call or that will call me; is that what you mean? The body shops work for the clients, though, not the consultants.
  - dmmalam 13y ago
    They may make you go through a preferred agency for payroll/invoicing, but any fees they add should be passed back to the employer, not met by you. Typical enterprise/gov BS, needlessly adding 10-20% to the cost. By agents I mean 'recruitment consultants', that's what they are called in London (along with pimps). Most people hate dealing with them, but they are a necessary evil.
    - lsc 13y ago