6 ms·

The thing you were building was worth more than one million dollars to you? It's good that you're pleased with the outcome, but the notion just seems really biz

The thing you were building was worth more than one million dollars to you? It's good that you're pleased with the outcome, but the notion just seems really bizarre to me to give up one million dollars just to keep working on one programming project on my own. Maybe there's something about it I'm just not "getting".

sxtxixtxcxh 13y ago
have you considered money isn't everything?
- jimmaswell 13y ago
  Yes, but one million dollars just seems like a huge sum to give up for one project to me. I'm not saying they made the wrong choice, it's just one I can't see myself making. $1M is a decade of $100k a year. Money might not be /everything/ but that's a pretty comfortable life while you work on other projects or hold another job with no fear of running into serious financial problems as long as you don't do something ridiculous.
  - missing_cipher 13y ago
    I feel the same way with the majority of these "I turned down their offer" stories. I admire them, but $1M (even across 4 years), to me is a lot of money. Enough to fund a new project and then maybe I'd think about turning down future potential buyouts having the financial stability.
  - hnriot 13y ago
    It's classic cognitive dissonance - they realize they made the wrong choice, so expend energy and time justifying it and explaining how they made the right choice every chance they get, as though eventually they will convince themselves. And they probably will, in time.
    - geophile 13y ago
      Sorry, but no. It was the wrong choice financially, but the right choice for my emotional well-being. I also reasoned about regrets years down the road -- I'd probably regret not having tried my own thing. And I don't explain this "every chance [I] get". I think about it rarely, and discuss it even less. I've done well enough financially that giving up the Microsoft cash just doesn't matter. I just mention it here because it seemed relevant to the topic at hand.
      - gruseom 13y ago
        I find this reply entirely convincing. Thanks for sharing your experience—it's obviously relevant to the topic at hand.
        Chronic24 13y ago
        Nice comment.
      - WayneDB 13y ago
        You really don't know if you made "the right choice" for your emotional well-being because you can only see one of any number of possible outcomes. If you'd have gone with Big Bad Microsoft, a lot of things could have happened. At the instant of deciding - you could have learned how to make decisions based less on emotions and more on logic. You could have helped change the company culture instead of being relatively ineffectual. I wonder - what has your hate-based (I assume) decision really changed for anybody outside of a small Boston startup?
        geophile 13y ago
        Wow, that's a harsh comment. Being neither Vulcan nor omniscient, just human, I had to make a decision with imperfect information, and my instincts did play a role in that decision. Improving Microsoft corporate culture was not my goal. Improving the world was not my goal. My goal was to work on software that I was driven to write, using technology that I enjoyed using, and to provide a comfortable life for my family. I did all of those things. I don't "hate" Microsoft, but combining what I knew of myself at the time, with what I observed at the company, I concluded that I would be happier elsewhere.
  - elithrar 13y ago
    Spending 5 years of your life at a place you are unlikely to enjoy for $1m (before taxes) doesn't seem like that great a deal to me.
  - onedev 13y ago
    A big chunk of that $1m will be gone to taxes, as someone in another comment has already mentioned. Also the taxes at the time were much higher; so the impressive $1m starts to look much less impressive when you add in the fact that it probably vested over a very long term and that he was going to be put to work on something he didn't like for a long time.
- nick2021 13y ago
  Said no one with money. Ever.
hkmurakami 13y ago
A few things to consider: 1) The $1MM will most likely vest over 2~4 years. 2) You will lose 40-50% of the money to taxes depending on your exact situation. 3) This was the Clinton years where taxes were higher than they are today.
- raverbashing 13y ago
  Hummm I thought capital gains were taxed lower And yes, I could take the money, wait a couple of years (after all it's MS, you can usually go for something that interests you better)
  - mattzito 13y ago
    Capital gains are taxed lower, but depending on the structure of the arrangement, it might all count as short-term capital gains, i.e. - income.
geophile 13y ago
I was confident of a good outcome either way. Microsoft was a safe bet, but for the startup, I was foolishly optimistic. It did work out well, but I was very lucky. As it turns out, Microsoft would have been several times better financially, (primarily due to stock appreciation), but I really couldn't see staying there for the five years required for everything to vest.

sxtxixtxcxh 13y ago

have you considered money isn't everything?

jimmaswell 13y ago
Yes, but one million dollars just seems like a huge sum to give up for one project to me. I'm not saying they made the wrong choice, it's just one I can't see myself making. $1M is a decade of $100k a year. Money might not be /everything/ but that's a pretty comfortable life while you work on other projects or hold another job with no fear of running into serious financial problems as long as you don't do something ridiculous.
- missing_cipher 13y ago
  I feel the same way with the majority of these "I turned down their offer" stories. I admire them, but $1M (even across 4 years), to me is a lot of money. Enough to fund a new project and then maybe I'd think about turning down future potential buyouts having the financial stability.
- hnriot 13y ago
  It's classic cognitive dissonance - they realize they made the wrong choice, so expend energy and time justifying it and explaining how they made the right choice every chance they get, as though eventually they will convince themselves. And they probably will, in time.
  - geophile 13y ago
    Sorry, but no. It was the wrong choice financially, but the right choice for my emotional well-being. I also reasoned about regrets years down the road -- I'd probably regret not having tried my own thing. And I don't explain this "every chance [I] get". I think about it rarely, and discuss it even less. I've done well enough financially that giving up the Microsoft cash just doesn't matter. I just mention it here because it seemed relevant to the topic at hand.
    - gruseom 13y ago
      I find this reply entirely convincing. Thanks for sharing your experience—it's obviously relevant to the topic at hand.
      - Chronic24 13y ago
        Nice comment.
    - WayneDB 13y ago
      You really don't know if you made "the right choice" for your emotional well-being because you can only see one of any number of possible outcomes. If you'd have gone with Big Bad Microsoft, a lot of things could have happened. At the instant of deciding - you could have learned how to make decisions based less on emotions and more on logic. You could have helped change the company culture instead of being relatively ineffectual. I wonder - what has your hate-based (I assume) decision really changed for anybody outside of a small Boston startup?
      - geophile 13y ago
        Wow, that's a harsh comment. Being neither Vulcan nor omniscient, just human, I had to make a decision with imperfect information, and my instincts did play a role in that decision. Improving Microsoft corporate culture was not my goal. Improving the world was not my goal. My goal was to work on software that I was driven to write, using technology that I enjoyed using, and to provide a comfortable life for my family. I did all of those things. I don't "hate" Microsoft, but combining what I knew of myself at the time, with what I observed at the company, I concluded that I would be happier elsewhere.
- elithrar 13y ago
  Spending 5 years of your life at a place you are unlikely to enjoy for $1m (before taxes) doesn't seem like that great a deal to me.
- onedev 13y ago
  A big chunk of that $1m will be gone to taxes, as someone in another comment has already mentioned. Also the taxes at the time were much higher; so the impressive $1m starts to look much less impressive when you add in the fact that it probably vested over a very long term and that he was going to be put to work on something he didn't like for a long time.
nick2021 13y ago
Said no one with money. Ever.

hkmurakami 13y ago

A few things to consider: 1) The $1MM will most likely vest over 2~4 years. 2) You will lose 40-50% of the money to taxes depending on your exact situation. 3) This was the Clinton years where taxes were higher than they are today.

raverbashing 13y ago
Hummm I thought capital gains were taxed lower And yes, I could take the money, wait a couple of years (after all it's MS, you can usually go for something that interests you better)
- mattzito 13y ago
  Capital gains are taxed lower, but depending on the structure of the arrangement, it might all count as short-term capital gains, i.e. - income.

geophile 13y ago

I was confident of a good outcome either way. Microsoft was a safe bet, but for the startup, I was foolishly optimistic. It did work out well, but I was very lucky. As it turns out, Microsoft would have been several times better financially, (primarily due to stock appreciation), but I really couldn't see staying there for the five years required for everything to vest.