4 ms·

Substitute "Homebuilt PC without DRM" for AK-47, pretend it was written in 2023, not 2013, and then reread the article as well as the comments at Hacker News.

by jerrya 13y ago

DanBC 13y ago
Your analogy fails because a homebuilt PC without DRM is currently illegal under anti-circumvention laws. EDIT: Obviously the problem is with circumventing the DRM - but in the context of the post I'm responding to (people home building machines with no DRM) I thought I was obvious.
- kunai 13y ago
  Sources?
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Here's the 1996 WIPO wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyright_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyright_Treaty) Here's the anti circumvention article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention) The problem is in circumventing the DRM, not just having a machine with no DRM on it. But that's the implication in a dystopian future-story where people home build machines with no DRM.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Say what? What part does my non-homebuilt computer contain that makes it legal, which a DRM-free homebuilt computer would lack, making it illegal?
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Read the post I'm replying to. "Homebuilt PC without DRM" [...] pretend it was written in 2023 The implication is that the machine is built to circumvent DRM, not just to avoid using any DRMd media. Obviously avoiding DRMd media is legal. But using something to circumvent DRM is illegal. To directly answer your question: Licensed software and permission from rights holders.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      You said "is currently", as in, such a thing is illegal right now. There's nothing illegal about not having licensed software on your computer.
- drdaeman 13y ago
  Actually, it's the opposite. Homebuilt PCs are completely legal everywhere I know. Not including any DRM-related software or hardware does not constitute a crime, as PC has no parts that are mandatory by law. On the contrary, homebuilt firearms are illegal to create and/or possess in some jurisdictions (but completely legal in others, laws on this matter vary from country to country).
homeomorphic 13y ago
I'm a European who for a long time had a hard time understanding liberal American gun laws. Then one day by chance I constructed something similar to the argument you sketch. I've looked at the (gun) issue differently ever since. It also opened my eyes to the simple arguments "I like shooting guns" and "it's not the government's business", which I had dismissed so easily it's scary. I like to think the experience improved my ability to seriously consider opposing arguments.

Substitute "Homebuilt PC without DRM" for AK-47, pretend it was written in 2023, not 2013, and then reread the article as well as the comments at Hacker News.

by jerrya 13y ago

Substitute "Homebuilt PC without DRM" for AK-47, pretend it was written in 2023, not 2013, and then reread the article as well as the comments at Hacker News.

DanBC 13y ago

Your analogy fails because a homebuilt PC without DRM is currently illegal under anti-circumvention laws. EDIT: Obviously the problem is with circumventing the DRM - but in the context of the post I'm responding to (people home building machines with no DRM) I thought I was obvious.

kunai 13y ago
Sources?
- DanBC 13y ago
  Here's the 1996 WIPO wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyright_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WIPO_Copyright_Treaty) Here's the anti circumvention article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-circumvention) The problem is in circumventing the DRM, not just having a machine with no DRM on it. But that's the implication in a dystopian future-story where people home build machines with no DRM.
mikeash 13y ago
Say what? What part does my non-homebuilt computer contain that makes it legal, which a DRM-free homebuilt computer would lack, making it illegal?
- DanBC 13y ago
  Read the post I'm replying to. "Homebuilt PC without DRM" [...] pretend it was written in 2023 The implication is that the machine is built to circumvent DRM, not just to avoid using any DRMd media. Obviously avoiding DRMd media is legal. But using something to circumvent DRM is illegal. To directly answer your question: Licensed software and permission from rights holders.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    You said "is currently", as in, such a thing is illegal right now. There's nothing illegal about not having licensed software on your computer.
drdaeman 13y ago
Actually, it's the opposite. Homebuilt PCs are completely legal everywhere I know. Not including any DRM-related software or hardware does not constitute a crime, as PC has no parts that are mandatory by law. On the contrary, homebuilt firearms are illegal to create and/or possess in some jurisdictions (but completely legal in others, laws on this matter vary from country to country).

homeomorphic 13y ago

I'm a European who for a long time had a hard time understanding liberal American gun laws. Then one day by chance I constructed something similar to the argument you sketch. I've looked at the (gun) issue differently ever since. It also opened my eyes to the simple arguments "I like shooting guns" and "it's not the government's business", which I had dismissed so easily it's scary. I like to think the experience improved my ability to seriously consider opposing arguments.