17 ms·

Open-plan offices make employees less productive, less happy, and more sick

• calpaterson 13y ago
  This topic is discussed at length in Peopleware: http://www.librarything.com/work/17188 http://www.librarything.com/work/17188 "If your organization is anything like those studied in our last three annual surveys, the environmental trend is toward less privacy, less dedicated space and more noise. Of course the obvious reason for this is cost. A penny saved on the workspace is a penny earned on the bottom line, or so the logic goes. Those who make such a judgement are guilty of performing a cost/benefit study without the benefit of studying the benefit." The book was first published in 1987 and apparently has not been very influential.
  • Cushman 13y ago
    > "Those who make such a judgement are guilty of performing a cost/benefit study without the benefit of studying the benefit." Sounds like the last forty years of mainstream corporate policy in a nutshell.
    • lmg643 13y ago
      Joel Spolsky has written extensively about peopleware: "Ever wonder why everybody at Microsoft gets their own office, with walls and a door that shuts? It's in there. Why do managers give so much leeway to their teams to get things done? That's in there too. Why are there so many jelled SWAT teams at Microsoft that are remarkably productive? Mainly because Bill Gates has built a company full of managers who read Peopleware." http://www.joelonsoftware.com/navlinks/fog0000000262.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/navlinks/fog0000000262.html It does make you wonder what the future of facebook, with the world's largest open plan office, versus microsoft, which is now viewed as everyone's version of techno-corpor-bureaucratic hell. Are office plans destiny? TBD.
      • monkeynotes 13y ago
        I've tried working in a cubical, an individual office with a door, and open plan offices. By far my favourite is open plan. I like being able to turn to my co-workers and ask quick questions, I like the atmosphere, and if things are too noisy or distracting I just put headphones on and get in the zone.
        • absconditus 13y ago
          I wonder whether your coworkers enjoy being interrupted frequently.
          • kamaal 13y ago
            Having the luxury to be interrupted frequently and yet not get frustrated is likely a indication that you are doing a lot of small tasks that don't require long hour focus. If you are doing something important that needs you to be focused on on particular a thing for long hours,without any interruption, frequent interruptions are disastrous. There are also more ways to look at it. If you are doing too many small time tasks that don't demand any serious focus. Its likely you have taken the wrong direction with regards to your career.
            • mh- 13y ago
              If you are doing too many small time tasks that don't demand any serious focus. Its likely you have taken the wrong direction with regards to your career. Great way of putting that. Can I borrow this? :)
              • kamaal 13y ago
                Sure. :)
          • monkeynotes 13y ago
            When working on a project that needs to be extremely reactive and accomodate functionality at short notice often requires quick, on target communication. If my coworkers aren't able to communicate quickly, and efficiently with myself and the other team members then the project will lose agility. Often we will have tasks that require not being disturbed and in the stand up meetings we flag this.
  • shaggyfrog 13y ago
    > The book was first published in 1987 and apparently has not been very influential. You think that's bad? Brooks first published The Mythical Man-Month in 1975 and I don't think those lessons have ever sunk in, either.
    • kamaal 13y ago
      99% of the managers probably haven't even heard if somebody called Fred Brooks ever existed.
  • yajoe 13y ago
    Peopleware is among the best books about teams that I encourage all aspiring managers to read. One point to emphasize is why the authors believe individual offices work: quiet. There is a story about about a programming competition, and in the narrative programmers in quiet spaces performed better than their peers, even controlling for experience and skill. Back then there weren't headphones or django (I kid, I kid!), but I don't think either work as well as my open-plan colleagues would like us to believe :) My open plan office at Amazon had a gorgeous view of lake union, but sat alongside the Mercer construction and ambulance route -- beyond annoying and distracting. Perhaps I just haven't had the right quiet open plan experience?
    • phillmv 13y ago
      I went and visited a friend at the New York Times building last year. Between TV and my own experience working around writers, I expected it to be a busy and loud environment as I walked into the beautiful ENORMOUS OPEN FLOORS that building seems to consist of. They had a made the best hack of all time in my opinion: everyone worked in dead silence. I was around a hundred people but you could hear a pin drop and I quickly felt uncomfortable chatting with my friend using my normal speaking voice. THAT I think is how you do it. Just culturally enforce total and utter respect for the environment. Don't take phone calls. Don't chat loudly around people's desks. Focus on your own work.
      • dredmorbius 13y ago
        And that still highlights the problem with open plan: acres and distraction, but no way to collaborrate without disturbing others. Might as well take phones away if you can't use them.
  • lawnchair_larry 13y ago
    I've been meaning to read this for some time now, and just noticed that the third edition is being released in just over a month (July 1). Should be interesting to see the updates from the current edition, printed in 1999.
• zeroexzeroone 13y ago
  I can definitely see how this could make people more sick, though I work in an open office and I rarely get sick, could be genetics or it could be that I eat food grown locally, work out and run every day and generally have alot of fun outside of work. The human body NEEDS to get sick to build anti-bodies - without these then you will get sick more often. The American way of "Take antibiotics or medicine as soon as you get sick!" is one of the worst habits of my beloved American people (and fast food).
  • digisign 13y ago
    Curious, do you get much sun? Vitamin D definciency commonly results in sickly people too.
    • usea 13y ago
      You don't need much. National Institutes of Health recommends 5-30 minutes of daytime exposure, twice a week. [1] http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/ http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional...
      • zeroexzeroone 13y ago
        Sorry but I don't trust anything with .gov to tell me what my body can already tell me. We have to learn to listen to it.
        • artmageddon 13y ago
          > tell me what my body can already tell me Your body doesn't always exhibit signs of something wrong, and there are many instances in which that's it's true and it's too late to take action. I had to get a birthmark removed from my back last summer because it could've been a malignant type of skin cancer. I certainly didn't "feel" anything from it, and wouldn't have known about it until a dermatologist pointed it out to me.
          • 13y ago
• hkon 13y ago
  Someone upvote this past middle management!
• akurilin 13y ago
  As an interesting example, the people in charge at Facebook seem to be well aware of the downsides of open plan offices. They however consciously choose to lower engineer productivity in exchange for higher openness and visibility. It's actually refreshing how they don't try to pass it as "much better for the developer". It's better for the company as a whole, not so much for the individual: http://ecorner.stanford.edu/authorMaterialInfo.html?mid=3119 http://ecorner.stanford.edu/authorMaterialInfo.html?mid=3119 (starts around 11:35)
  • mayank 13y ago
    The open plan is something I don't miss about working at Facebook. You look up over your monitor and see nothing but rows of harsh fluorescent lights. Opinion was definitely mixed, but I was in the camp that found the lack of quiet tiring after a while.
    • ryguytilidie 13y ago
      Let's be honest. If we wanted engineers to be most productive, we would give them quiet, private spaces to work. But that is expensive so we put them in open plan arrangements that cost less and pretend that the main reason it's done is higher productivity.
      • SatvikBeri 13y ago
        As someone who is regularly exposed to these types of decisions, I don't think cost is the reason. Everyone recognizes that engineers are more expensive than office space. Private offices result in engineers getting more done but working on the wrong things, or solving problems in slightly the wrong way. The goal is to expose developers to the organization more so they have a stronger sense of what users/customers value, and can make better decisions. As a rough guess, optimal business value in an enterprise software company probably results from engineers spending 20-40% of their time with users/product managers/other stakeholders and 60-80% of their time actually programming/designing/working with other developers. These numbers are highly imprecise and depend on circumstances, but they're probably in the right order of magnitude. The issue with private offices is that in my experience many engineers will prefer to spend 95% of their time engineering and just 5% of their time understanding the problem. As a result they build more features but the features are significantly less valuable. 2-3 person offices seems to mitigate that pretty well, while open plan offices seem to go way too far in the other direction.
• acgourley 13y ago
  I've always felt that space preference varies by person and task. Given that nearly all knowledge can or do use laptops, it seems curious everyone has an assigned daily seat.
  • falcolas 13y ago
    Speaking only for myself, I can't work on a laptop for long periods of time. The downward tilt of my head to see the screen, the tight keyboards & mice, and small screens make it very uncomfortable for more than a few hours. For this reason, I have a dedicated screen, full sized keyboard and separate mouse. All configured and arranged to be most comfortable to me, so not exactly interchangeable. Thus, a dedicated "assigned" seat. I wouldn't want it any other way.
    • mjwalshe 13y ago
      Doesn't everyone who uses a laptop as main machine? at Reed Elsevier I had a docking station and two monitors separate mouse and a full sized keyboard. There are good H&S reasons for having docking stations real monitors and keyboard.
  • mattmanser 13y ago
    So, your first sentence is at complete odds with your second one. Some people like having something to call their own.
  • kyrra 13y ago
    As you say, preference varies. Some people like having a workspace with their own "stuff" there. This can range from pictures to toys, and for work-related stuff, a number of people like print-outs or physical things they can handle (printed out documents or designs, or physical models).
  • Cyranix 13y ago
    I work in an open-plan office where all developers have laptops. We're free to code anywhere in the office, but at our desks we have the benefit of an additional two monitors. Some people prefer to be closer to their team because they like discussing things in person; others prefer IRC/Gmail chat. Use of the assigned space boils down to personal preference for us. The major benefit of a designated home base, though, is that people who need to deliver papers or other physical goods to you don't have to hunt you down through the entire office.
• ninetenel 13y ago
  Personally I will never work in an open plan office again if I can avoid it .. when I was interviewing for a new position a year or so ago I had to turndown two offers from interesting companies due to their seating arrangements. I do not want to spend the majority of my working day five feet from someone else with no barrier having to deal with the distraction, noise, invasion of personal space that comes with that to me it shows a lack of respect towards your employees
• ladzoppelin 13y ago
  The noise would drive me crazy. Earplugs would not even work with so many phones so close together. How can people program in that environment?
  • pdenya 13y ago
    Coding from starbucks at the moment. It's definitely doable. Our office has an open floor plan and once in a while there are conversations I wish I could block out a little more effectively but it's not a daily frustration.
    • zerr 13y ago
      Yes, commenting on HN from starbucks is quite doable.
  • AlisdairO 13y ago
    Depends, I guess. I'm in open plan, but the floor I work on is basically all engineering. We don't get too many phone calls ;)
  • recursive 13y ago
    Being one of the apparently rare people that enjoys an open plan work-space, I couldn't tell you what my secret is. I can tell you that the noise does not drive me crazy.
• mcphilip 13y ago
  I really struggle to get in the 'zone' where I can do the creative aspects of software engineering (e.g. researching graph databases like neo4j and determining if our startup can benefit from it) when I'm in an open environment. I have been diagnosed with ADD for the past 8 years, but am working towards a medication free approach to dealing with it. Open spaces really hurt my productivity because my mind naturally tries to keep track of all the conversations going on around me. This ADD wired brain helped make me a great waiter, but it's hard to explain to bosses/founders why I prefer to work in a quiet environment with as few people around as possible whenever I'm not simply cranking out code that takes no thought. Most of my bosses have been very accommodating at first, but each time the scenario ends up where management feels like my isolation is a sign of not wanting to be a team player and is harming the morale of those programmers that look up to me. I really don't know what the right answer is to this dilemma, but for me, at least, the trend towards an open plan offices is stifling my ability to perform at a consistently high level. Edit: to those replying below, thanks for the suggestion. Thankfully my employer has no policy against headphone usage, so I do get some help from that. One thing many people don't realize about ADD is that a loss of focus can be triggered through other senses such as seeing movement out of the corner of my eyes. Sound is definitely the most distracting element, but an environment with a lot of movement can be almost as bad in my case.
  • endianswap 13y ago
    I hate to sound like I'm trivializing your disorder, but have you tried a good pair of closed-ear headphones? I sit in a room of 40 or 50 chatty computer folks, and everything is silent when I put on my Sennheiser headphones. It lets be effectively choose whether or not I want to be distracted by sound, which I do sometimes (hearing conversations I want to be a part of it quite important to me).
    • ghotli 13y ago
      http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SE210-Sound-Isolating-Earphone/dp/B0013JT3XC http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SE210-Sound-Isolating-Earphone/d... Those effectively eliminate auditory ADD in an open environment. Nothing has been more effective than these for me.
• sultezdukes 13y ago
  I don't know about open plans making people more susceptible to sickness, but on my exit interview on Friday, I mentioned that I thought the way we had done open office was counterproductive. I like the idea of pods though, where QA, BAs and developers are all together, as opposed to 60 or so people all in this huge area, which is how we did it.
• jonwingfield 13y ago
  I tend to enjoy the open plan. Our team has currently voluntarily moved to an open space within an otherwise cubicle-dominated workplace to facilitate better communication within the team. I can see issues with this layout when multiple teams are involved or team sizes are large, but I really like it for our small team (and I'd like to think the rest of the team would agree). I also feel like there definitely needs to be "individual spaces" where you can go and be not interrupted for a while, which we currently do not have. A flexible work schedule would probably do just as well. Maybe it depends on the team and the personality types in it?
  • greenyoda 13y ago
    "Maybe it depends on the team and the personality types in it?" That's exactly the case. Different people have different preferences. And if you have an inflexible work environment of a particular type, your company is losing access to all the talented people who hate that particular environment -- you're, in effect, making something like the ability to work in a noisy space a more important hiring criterion than the ability to write good code. (Maybe this is one of the reasons that companies feel there's a shortage of developers?) The best approach might be to offer a choice to employees rather than having rigid policies like "everybody has to collaborate on a minute-by-minute basis in an open space", or "managers get offices and everyone else gets cubicles". Giving employees control over their individual working environments would go a long way toward making them feel valued by the company, even more than giving them free food.
  • mahyarm 13y ago
    That is not open plan, that is a team room. It's extremely distracting when 10 people are having a conversation around you, half the time with passionate, loud voices.
• city41 13y ago
  I have worked in just about every office configuration imaginable: open office (my current job), everyone gets their own office, and cubicles. Despite everyone hating them, I actually think cubicles are the best arrangement. The cubicle walls offer separation and let people focus and get more work done, but not so much that they stifle collaboration and communication (which everyone having their own office does). Open office is by far the worst, I actually really hate it. So distracting, noisy, and for sure the least productive.
• drstewart 13y ago
  I feel like I'm the only one that feels this way, but I far prefer open plan. I used to work at somewhere that had offices for everyone and I hated it. Maybe it's more productive, but it makes going to work hell since you don't see anyone the entire day. I much prefer having a more social environment where you can actually talk to people. And good open plan offices will give you nooks and crannies to get away from the noise when you want to.
  • zwily 13y ago
    Yeah, we're definitely the minority. I used to be an office fan, and after having one for several years, am enjoying being back in an open plan. There are definitely downsides to both.
• pbiggar 13y ago
  I gave a talk on this topic [1], and about 60% of the audience was cheering and totally for this. But I got a small number of people coming up afterwards and saying they much preferred open plan. So I think there's definitely a downside: developers enjoy work less because it's less social, and less collaborate. I think overall the benefit is there though. Does anyone know how much it costs to have private offices all round? My estimate was that a 1sqft/yr is $55 in SF right now, so the 100-150sqft for 1 open plan desk is $700, and you might need twice as much space to give people (small) private offices. Would love something more accurate though. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYk1YkCRuKQ&t=43m17s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYk1YkCRuKQ&t=43m17s
  • codeonfire 13y ago
    There are people that want to collaborate with other people of the same skill level. But the majority of people that want to collaborate just don't know what they are doing and can't do their jobs. If people want a more social and collaborative job, maybe they shouldn't choose software developer as a career.
  • greenyoda 13y ago
    100-150 square feet would also make a reasonably sized office for a single person to work in (mine is about 110 square feet and doesn't feel cramped). The thing that makes private offices more expensive from a construction point of view is: - You have to put up walls and doors: studs, wallboard, painting, running cables through walls. And once you put up those walls and doors, you need to knock them down again to reconfigure the space. - A closed office needs its own dedicated heating and air-conditioning ducts, power/network distribution, overhead lighting, smoke detector, sprinkler, etc. In an open plan, these can be shared among several work spaces.
  • donw 13y ago
    If the annual cost of giving each $120k+ engineer his own office is $1k, and if that increased his productivity by a mere 1%, you would still make more money and have a much easier time hiring.
• jstalin 13y ago
  Like so many things, it seems as though people are looking for "the one" best way of doing things. Obviously some people like cubicles. Some like offices. Some like open space. How about letting people choose?
  • keithpeter 13y ago
    And possibly change their choice from day to day depending on task. Could be expensive?
    • greenyoda 13y ago
      If it increases the productivity of a $100,000 per year employee by 10% (i.e., you could get the equivalent of an additional $100,000 employee for free for every ten employees you had), it could actually be very cost effective.
  • hristov 13y ago
    If that happens, everyone will choose personal offices. That's because they are associated with status, and everyone will go for the thing that communicates status regardless of whether it makes them uncomfortable.
• crazygringo 13y ago
  Is there any conclusive evidence of causation, as opposed to just correlation? Could it be, for example, that companies with worse management practices tend to adopt open-plan offices, but that it's actually the bad management practices causing stress, sickness, less productivity -- and that the open-plan offices have very little to do with it? In environments as incredibly complex as office settings, it is particularly important to realize that correlation != causation.
  • greenyoda 13y ago
    You make a good point; an office is a complex system with many factors affecting workers. However, I do think the findings about increased sickness in open plan offices are very plausible. Communicable diseases, like colds or flu, would be a whole lot easier to spread when there's someone coughing or sneezing in your immediate vicinity over an extended period of time.
• lifeisstillgood 13y ago
  Water wet, sky blue, Pope Catholic, Bear excrement in forested areas Knowledge workers of the past who have had money and power work in quiet campus colleges or oasis of calm like Londons Lincoln's Inn or Temple. No power or influence - and work in chicken farms. There is an advantage - for companies willing to put in the effort to make a sane work environment, to grow and support honesty and team support - well it's like being give. A free extra lap on the business marathon.
  • keithpeter 13y ago
    "Knowledge workers of the past who have had money and power work in quiet campus colleges or oasis of calm like London's Lincoln's Inn or Temple." The average Oxford JCR isn't that calm, and both the Inns of Court support people who are performing in the open shout mosh pit that was the Georgian courtroom. I take your well-made point, but somehow we need to balance calm reflection with connection.
    • lifeisstillgood 13y ago
      That kind of seems to be my point - raucous connection is great fun, as long as there is some area one controls to retreat to and capitalise on the connections made, and prepare. Pixar has an open central area I believe (where the toilets are) deliberately to encourage people to connect when they leave their offices (where they can concentrate) Campuses almost always have a central coffee / open area where "everyone meets up". All the Inns of court that I remember we're built around grassy courtyards, all encouraging an easy mixing without compromising office work It is is suspect the real advantage of yammer or those web-IRC 37signal things - there is a "room" to go to that is social more than work.
• suman_nandan 13y ago
  I believe it is very difficult to get works done in an open plan office. That seems too distraction prone. Noise cancellation headphones can get useful only if accompanied by an extended hood to guard vision to the screen. So that the programmer does not get distracted by any human movement nearby.
• jroseattle 13y ago
  Anyone who has worked in enough office environments for a while will recognize that the "best" environment is a flexible one. Sometimes it's working in the open, sometimes a quiet office with the door closed, sometimes at home or a coffee shop. When I took a mgmt role as VP/Engnring at a firm a few years ago, the first thing I did was assess and address morale, which was not good. One of the obvious things was that the staff didn't like the militaristic-layout of desks, being on display to others in the organization who had cozy and private retreats to use. The CEO freaked out when I told him we were moving to the opposite side of the office floor (we had a full floor in a standard big-city downtown office building). When we moved over, we had our choice of cubes, open areas (not desks, but full-on tables) and quiet corners. Product management hated it because they "had to walk over to see what was going on". It didn't take a lot to figure out the source of frustration with the office environment for the engineering team. After that, I was able to take on the frustrations of the product management group since they could no longer easily impact the engineering team. As it turned out, the engineering team didn't mind working in any combination of those situations, as long as they could kind of pick-and-choose over time. And, wouldn't you know it, productivity went up -- considerably.
  • greghinch 13y ago
    Ultimately, in my experience, it always seems to come down to "how do we keep the non-technical people from meddling with the engineers?" This is as much about org structure as it is office layout
    • reeses 13y ago
      This is one of the lessons from Peopleware. It's not so much noise in the background but noise unrelated to the job duties. Being in a room of developers usually has less impact than having marketing, sales, etc. collocated as well.
    • EliRivers 13y ago
      That's not the only possible problem. I once started at a company that occupied a big building and had few employees; lots of offices, and those that didn't have them had a lot of space. Everyone had a nice big desk at the window (which was floor to ceiling, all the way around); the desk was "U" shaped, so everyone sat facing the window (if they wanted to) and the outer parts of the "U" had tall partitions. You couldn't see over them. It was fantastic for getting work done. I didn't have a desk so much as a bay; a good ten feet or so from my chair to the point at which people might walk past. Then they closed some other sites and moved their people in, and by the end of it we were all jammed into a single huge room (big enough that if there was someone standing at the other end, I couldn't see who it was) with so many desks that there was only one way from any one desk to any other - if I wanted to get to the desk of the guy sitting directly in front of me (who spent the day facing me) I had to walk all the way out to the long corridor and then weave in and out of pods of desks to get to him. He was an FPGA designer, as I recall. He ended up "borrowing" some of the industrial noise-suppressing headphones from the catapult lab in the basement so he could block out the noise of everyone working. Because it could take over a minute to walk to the desk of the person ten feet away from you, people phoned a lot or just had conversations over the top of partitions. A particularly inspiring move was the demand that the tall cupboards some people had (six foot tall ones) that broke up the sightline a bit and created shields be replaced with smaller ones. So that they wouldn't break up the sightlines. I quit that job without having another job to move on to (which, to be honest, I thought was normal and was how I'd always done it, but this time the boss was so surprised he explained that it's not the way people normally do things). I think everyone I worked with there had quit within a year, leaving the lifers to it. Ironically, I once spent some time at one of the offices in France and it was gorgeous. Floors were basically all enclosed offices with one to three people in them. Proper offices with proper walls and doors; none of this moveable partition stuff. With wine at lunch.
• DanielBMarkham 13y ago
  I've worked in every possible configuration, and I've watched teams work in every possible configuration. I don't like open-plan, but it tentatively appears to be most effective for organizations as a whole. Some initial conclusions: - We'd be wise to distinguish what we'd all like to have as an office from what actually functions best in a larger system. It is erroneous to think that simply because you like something means it's always the best policy for everybody. Sometimes local non-optimizations need to be made to optimize the system as a whole. - Open-plan environments are nowhere near being a determining factor in team performance, but they can be an important add-on. So sure, if your company is too cheap for offices, treat teams like slaves, and just wants to cram as many people possible into the smallest space? Then that's going to suck. But that's going to suck anyway. I'd just be really careful about confusing "stuff I think is cool" from "stuff that works the best for everybody concerned" I'd also be careful about over-generalizing. A big hunk of this is team, project, company, technology, and building specific. - As long as you're adapting, you could end up with any kind of office space. But just as an informed guess, co-located open plan is where I'd start, then adapt from there. - The worse thing you can do is start with a pre-conceived notion of what works and didn't and then try to force reality to conform to it.
  • lifeisstillgood 13y ago
    I see office environment as a proxy for willingness to expend effort and time in making high performance teams and letting them get on with it. If a management tier is unwilling to spend money arranging desks to avoid constant interruptions that common sense tells us will be detrimental, then it is a management tier that is unlikely to have been a blip and then make all other decisions well. Google Ed Catmull, the quiet co-founder of Pixar, interviewed at economist conference 2010 - it is far and away the best example of simple focus on getting teams to work well - no "do it my way" but plenty of "if the team is functioning well there are enough good people in it to over one anything"
    • DanielBMarkham 13y ago
      I'm not sure we're disagreeing. I'm simply saying that performance -- as measured by the team itself -- may be maximized by the team deciding to do things that it finds uncomfortable. You also don't always optimize overall performance by optimizing individual performance. There's also the issue of communication versus productivity. Communication is a far greater obstacle to many technology team's success than individual productivity. Bunch o' guys working by themselves in a nice, quiet cushy office doesn't give you the cross-talk, annoyance, problem-solving and innovative banter you get by putting them all together. Sometimes doing things you find annoying or troublesome is actually the best way to reach your goals. Surely this isn't a new observation.
• steven2012 13y ago
  In the span of 4 years, I went from a cube farm, to an office, to taking almost a year off and being by myself at home, to an entirely open-plan. It took a couple of weeks to get used to but I really like the open-plan. I enjoyed being by myself at home alone tremendously and didn't miss the social interaction at all, since I IM with most of my friends anyway, but I have to say I do like the open-plan now. My team is very social, I very much like everyone on the team, and I get to interact with my teammates a lot more, and if I need some solitude I can move to a smaller room (we're all laptop-based). We do respect each other's space though, so most times it gets as quiet as a library, and even though my teammate is just on the other side of the table from me, he will IM me instead of just looking past the monitor and talk to me. It's usually quiet, but closer to lunch or near the end of the day, we play StarCraft 2, start chattering a bit more, and it's generally a bit looser. For the most part, we don't work remotely, but the VP of Engineering insists that if one of us is even possibly sick, to stay at home and not infect others. It's definitely a different set of "rules", but I really do enjoy it.
• vog 13y ago
  I'm wondering why people even considered that kind of office layout. Didn't anyone of them read the famous books of Tom DeMarco, such as "Peopleware"? Decades ago, DeMarco argued (IMHO very convincingly) for closed rooms to cut distractions - at least for thought workers. DeMarco even concluded that telephones are bad, especially if in the company's culture it's not socially accepted that people are free to ignore a phone call.
• dreamdu5t 13y ago
  Agreed. I find it very odd that software engineers make $100k+ yet aren't even given an office or private work space. The cost is not the reason because open floor plan offices in downtown SF aren't exactly "cheaper" than renting in an already established office suite. The reason is the insecurities of management, combined with the fashion/groupthink aspect of silicon valley startup CEOs (herp derp, facebook does it! Startup X does it! It's the thing to do!)
• doktrin 13y ago
  While I don't prefer open office plans, I think it needs to be emphasized that not all open office plans are equal. There are compartmentalized open plans, where a specific team or division is grouped together in close proximity, and then you have some form of the "kitchen sink", where any number of teams (if not the whole company) is just thrown into a room. The latter is extremely unpleasant, IMHO. Being constantly disrupted by the loud side chatter that inevitably comes out of another group (e.g. marketing, finance, sales, etc.) is infinitely more distracting than ancillary chatter that is relevant to a specific team / department. In addition, obviously, the more open a plan is the more physical distractions are present which doesn't help matters either.
  • Symmetry 13y ago
    You also have to consider how closely packed everyone is. At my last job we had an open plan office for the four people in my group but we were all about 20 feet apart and it was great. It was easy to communicate, but it wasn't distracting. Having lots of tiny conference rooms for talking to people or taking phone calls is also very important for open plan offices.
• shortstuffsushi 13y ago
  I tend to agree with this article. My office went from a "bullpen" arrangement (team size cubicle areas) to and entirely open floor. To me the feeling is almost like a sweat-shop -- row after row of programmers working away. While my team specifically tends to be pretty social, I've found other areas of the floor seem to be utterly silent, and in these the above feeling is even more solidified. We've been able to kind of avoid the feeling by finding a natural corner of the building that almost puts us back into that 'bullpen' environment.
• akurilin 13y ago
  I wonder if shared office spaces with hundreds of teams in them, a very popular startup location these days, is perhaps the worst of the breed. Half a dozen teams talking to each other, multiple people on the phone, people having lunch behind you, dogs running around the office, phones ringing, skype sessions, car alarm outside the window etc etc. On the plus side at some point it gets dense and chaotic enough to become pure white noise.
• wadetandy 13y ago
  I work for a large company with an open office plan. We have many different types of employees, from software developers to sales folks to editors and writers. While there is the occasional complaint about a loud coworker or something, I generally very much enjoy the atmosphere, and I hear similar comments from my colleagues. One of the things that makes our implementation very effective is that everyone from the CEO to the interns sit at the same desks and share the same environment. The culture is very open and everyone is encouraged to walk up to anyone and ask them a question or ten, of they have them. This collaborative environment more than makes up for the occasional loss in individual employee productivity, in my opinion. It probably also helps that we are an instant message culture as opposed to a phone conversation one, which cuts down on a lot of the noise distraction as well.
• pragone 13y ago
  At my last job we had a huge open-office floor plan. I was so uncomfortable in that situation I ended up in at a gastroenterologist multiple times before realizing I needed to change jobs. Haven't had a single GI issue since I left.
• AlisdairO 13y ago
  I actually like open plan, generally, with one caveat - I work from home one day a week. I like being generally available to help my colleagues with problems (and be helped by them), and I'm mostly-interruptible. This workflow does rely entirely on me having at least one day a week for which I can save up my really hard problems and just think uninterrupted. Working from home is not a requirement - I'd also be happy with an open-plan arrangement where you could book an office for one day a week. The important factor is that every now and then I need some peace and quiet.
• kuchaguangjie 13y ago
  definitely ture, an environment which provide more freedom & privacy, will get more feedback, and make the worker happier.
• anentropic 13y ago
  It's not a dichotomy between open-plan and individual cubicles I've never worked in a cubicle office but it doesn't appeal, however I hate open plan offices too... for the reasons in the article - too much extraneous noise Favourite office was more like a house, about half a dozen people to each room. The rooms were open to each other, doorways but no doors, no barriers to wandering through to the next room for a chat.
• 31reasons 13y ago
  Why do we need offices ? office-less is the new paper-less! with tools like google hangout and google glasses, it makes less and less sense everyday. Why come to the same physical space everyday and stare at the computer screens to do the work you can do from anywhere. Offices were invented to reduce the transaction cost of communication between employees, which was true 20 years ago but not anymore. I guess we have to wait till the net generation moves in to management to be truly comfortable with the mobile workforce. The time of long tail of work environment is upon us.
  • mindcrime 13y ago
    That's a good point. And to carry on from what I said above[1] about what I hope we can do at Fogbeam eventually, let me add: Letting people work from home (or wherever) with quite a bit of freedom. I do think there is some value in having people physically located near each other and coming into the office at least part-time, but I totally agree with giving employees a lot of autonomy in deciding where to work. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5768791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5768791
  • notatoad 13y ago
    I like my office. It's a place I go to do work. I love my job, but I also love to get away from my job, completely, when I step out the door of my office. I've tried the work-from-anywhere thing and it sucks. It really just turns into work-all-the-time for me.
    • 31reasons 13y ago
      Its okay to like office and work there just don't force or enforce your co-workers and employees to do the same by assuming that they love their offices as much as you do. For example, May be you are that loud or annoying co-worker or extrovert who keep interrupting them from their work.
• rayiner 13y ago
  I hate open plan. Hell I hate open door policies. My door is closed till noon and closed again at 5:30 sharp. If you need to collaborate pick up the phone!
• mgkimsal 13y ago
  Was just having a discussion on this topic with a friend a couple nights ago. Seems that "management" and "HR" always seem to have traditional desks and offices with closable doors. Always. For software developers, they often get lumped with the same desk/working environments that people doing call center or phone support work get. It got me thinking why that might be, and I had a thought I hadn't had before. Management types typically have their days broken up in to short 30-60 minute blocks - that's their standard work process - meeting, meeting, meeting, planning, etc. I don't think they can really understand people focusing for 2-3 hours at a stretch, and that there's often a big increase in productivity for some people working under those conditions. Thought-workers are somewhat alone in this, and because the people who make office seating decisions don't work that way, they can not fathom anyone else might need to work that way (except, of course, they still need their doors to be closed for quiet/private work conditions).
  • tsotha 13y ago
    There's more to it than that. Management and HR people need to have conversations that not everyone else is privy to. Having everyone listening to a coworker being asked by her boss to wear more appropriate clothing to the office is just asking for a lawsuit, as is a conversation between HR and an employee discussing leave for an embarrassing medical problem. Of course you can have small conference rooms for those kinds of conversations, but if it's a significant part of the job an office just makes sense.
    • YZF 13y ago
      The thing is that I think healthy teams need to have those conversations as well. I.e. ones that not everyone is privy too. Team cohesion requires trust and I found the inability to have private conversations easily is a problem.
    • mgkimsal 13y ago
      Yeah, that's another aspect I'm aware of, but I don't buy it as much. The majority of time I've seen mgt in their offices, it's not being used for that. Regardless, I'm not advocating for people to not have private offices - I'm arguing for more people to have private offices, and I think decision makers simply aren't capable of putting themselves in the shoes of people who do 'thought work' as their primary task.
• nekitamo 13y ago
  I don't know if anyone at Qz.com is reading this, but if you open the link in internet explorer it redirects you to an article about programmers and autism.
• rumcajz 13y ago
  Once I was renting an office of my own. Recently, I have moved to work from local library. I consider it 100% improvement in working conditions.
• onemorepassword 13y ago
  I'm tired of these kind of generalizations. Our open plan office is geared towards developers and quiet and peaceful 95% of the time. Standing rule is, you wanna talk, you take it outside into the kitchen or the meeting room. Simple. Also, people can work from home whenever they want. Most prefer to be in the office because it's nice and quiet. The problem isn't open spaces, the problem is the people in it.
  • 6d0debc071 13y ago
    I don't see how it can be quiet and peaceful if people are typing in close quarters. That stuff's loud. Not to mention that there's a psychological pressure just from being around people who are in the same room all the time - difficult to give yourself permission to relax and focus in on one thing when someone might come and interrupt you at any point.
• yekko 13y ago
  This is true, I've never been to an office more sick than and open-plan office. HALF the office was off sick during 1 week in a flu season. It was unreal.
• jon_black 13y ago
  I wrote an article on my blog in January to the same effect: http://jonblack.org/2013/01/29/open-plan-offices-are-a-nightmare/ http://jonblack.org/2013/01/29/open-plan-offices-are-a-night.... The funny thing is, in spite of all the signs, our office are knocking walls down to make rooms bigger!
  • greenyoda 13y ago
    Thanks, that five-minute TED talk in your article was very interesting.
• ChuckMcM 13y ago
  One of the challenges I face is on temperature. The HVAC unit on our building was not really designed to do even temperature control of an open 60 x 100' space. So we get warm and cold spots, and adjusting one can screw up the others. I've done a bit of research on it and their are two challenges for our particular system, one the number of mixers in the ceiling which can change air temperature and the way in which thermostats feed back into the system. I suspect if you sat down with Lennox or Crane and said "we want to design an HVAC system that will work in this environment." they would come up with something very different than what we currently have. Sadly its going to take a bit to convince the landlord to rip out the old system and put in a new one.
  • swah 13y ago
    Even worse in when you seem to be the only one that notices/cares about the problem - making you look like a whiny bitch or perfectionist that can't adapt.
• mrleinad 13y ago
  Cubicle offices make people less happy, open-plan offices make people less happy.. Maybe it's just working that makes people less happy.
  • 6d0debc071 13y ago
    A cubicle is not a real office.
• altero 13y ago
  Thanks to open-plan office I developed anxiety, high-blood pressure and stress. I could not concentrate in the office and I had to finish most of my work at home over evenings. I nearly divorced thanks to open-plan office. I already quit 3 long term jobs a few weeks after company moved to open-plan. At end I just had to start my own business. Now I am single-handily competing with multi-billion companies (and I dare to say with good success). Open-plan comes with lot of bullsh*t. But at end it is just about a few bucks which company moves from operating cost to management bonuses. Many developers care about stuff like free soda. I would strongly recommend to care about your working environment and mental health. It takes about 10 years of stress-free work to develop and reach your full technical potential. Working for peanuts and burning-out after 15 years is really bad carier plan.
  • vpeters25 13y ago
    As an Agile evangelist I thought open-plan was the way to go but now I realize collaboration tools such as IM, Campfire, Hipchat, etc can provide such social benefits while allowing the developer to isolate themselves and focus when needed. I personally can work in any kind of environment, but I prefer it quiet. Headphones help when in open-plan places but I noticed it takes me longer to get focused in such places. I now reject job offers were I would get anything less than a private cubicle.
• dsrguru 13y ago
  I'd imagine the effect of open-plan offices on productivity greatly depends on the nature of the company and how the company operates. If a company mainly produces software in a non-mission critical domain where, say, a 5x gain in productivity is more valuable than a 1.5x gain in reliability, they're likely to have very short release cycles à la agile development. That kind of operation relies heavily on communication and collaboration within and across teams, so an open-plan office is likely going to be much more productive. If you don't have a collaboration-based development strategy, I'd buy that open-plan offices might often make employees less productive, but even then there will be multiple factors at play.
• parbo 13y ago
  At Spotify, we have a lot of team-rooms which seat 8-10 people. They all have a lounge area with whiteboard walls as well as a small conference room for design discussions, 1-1:s etc.
• davidw 13y ago
  Here in Italy, open plan offices seem to be the default because you can cram more people in them, and real estate/space are at a premium here, so it's difficult to do otherwise. I'd be curious how things are in other places where costs per square meter are high and there is not a huge tech culture. In other words, San Francisco is probably an outlier.
• chris123 13y ago
  The employers with open-plan offices care more about their profits than their employees. It's as simple as that.
• stackedmidgets 13y ago
  Thank God. Can this fad die yet?
• Zigurd 13y ago
  Microsoft got this right, and I expect they have the metrics to show it's true. Some things have changed, though. Coders don't need a bookshelf when they can get a Safari subscription. Nobody needs a fixed-line phone. For 90% of coding a laptop is fast enough. So I would think that a "hotelling" style arrangement would work now, before, a coder might be holed up with a pile of books, big, heavy CRTs, and desktop computers. Now that Drive has a "scan" command, even the whiteboard can come along with an engineer between work and home.
  • city41 13y ago
    I disagree that Microsoft got this right. I assume you're referring to giving everyone their own office. I worked for MS for 3 years on a team that did that. For sure, having your own office is really nice. But it really stifles communication and creativity. Even worse, when space is low, the solution is to double people up in offices. That can create really uncomfortable situations that can harm productivity as well, much like suddenly getting a new, unexpected roommate.
• KVFinn 13y ago
  I'm certainly an open-office hater, it drives me absolutely batty. Open office with frequent phone calls throughout the day by your neighbors? I'd quit. I do like small open offices when working closely with people on a team. But everyone in that office has to be working on the same project. This is the scenario where it can be great. Even in this case, though, there are some periods where you need to step away to a silo to do your own thing for awhile in my experience. I have heard of some mythical working environments with both public and private working areas that allow people to move as they will. I guess this would be the optimal solution.
• qwerta 13y ago
  I wonder what is the next evolutionary step in sequence: private office -> cubicle farm -> open plan office. I think it will be empty tank inside retired oil tanker. It could dock a few miles of the coast, so no problems with property taxes and imigration permits.Thousands of developers would fit into single tanker. Also steel hull absorbs radio waves, so no unauthorized tweeting or surfing during working hours :-)
• coldcode 13y ago
  At work I am crammed into a corner with about 16 sq feet to live in including my chair and table. At least I have a window but otherwise I am a sardine with a view. Our parent company (which occupies the other 8 floors) hate us so we are forced to live on one floor. I bet the density exceeds the fire code.
• MikeTLive 13y ago
  Six years ago I designed a mixed-mode alcove based office plan. Long conference table with 12 chairs. On opposite sides are four to six offices just large enough for pair programming, doors facing the conference table. For heads down go to your office and close the door. 1:1 collaboration go join your partner. Max3 cram on in. Passive collaboration open your door. Larger team meet at conf table. Active teamwork move with laptop out to table. Large screen on wall at end of table. This neighborhood is repeated over and over again. Collocate teams in alcoves. Go visit other alcoves when you need to. Touchdown or camp at whatever teams space you need to be at. This design was rejected at my local office rebuild. But a year later was taken up at another facility. It won someone architectural awards. Me? I get to enjoy its productivity multiplier every time I visit that facility. Anyone who experiences it comments on it being the best arrangement they have ever seen. Any other time? When i need to work from the local office I am in low wall cubicle hell from thanks to our expert architects.
  • jlangenauer 13y ago
    Have you written a blog post or something more about this setup? I'd certainly like to know more about it.
• kfcm 13y ago
  After nearly 25 years, I've worked in almost every known office layout. My opinions, based solely on my subjective experience: --open-plan offices can work great for small teams of maybe 4-6 max. Beyond five or six people though, productivity starts to drop significantly. Also, the people on the team have to like each other, be working on the same problem/goal, and have a comfortable environment (whiteboards, comfy armchairs/sofa, big table and comfy chairs, natural lighting through large windows). For a small, driven team, this is great. --private offices are my preferred choice for a larger, established organization. I want to be able to shut my door and work without the distractions of everyday office life invading my consciousness. I can focus when needed, be social when I want. More important, I can have my own private whiteboard. --cubicles are almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea in that you get the illusion of privacy (but not really) along with the illusion of an open-plan (but not really). --work from home/home office. For the past 5 years, this is how I've worked with my own business. I like the privacy and the ability to get stuff done. But I miss socializing and brainstorming with others, and am finding myself in coffee shops more and more often, just for the social aspects. One concept I'd like to experiment with is a hybrid "enclave" model, where larger private offices/rooms are set up for teams working on projects, or just people who like to work together. Maybe an external wall could open or close instead of a door if the team decides to be more social or focused.
  • rdl 13y ago
    Yeah, I'd really like to try offices in "pods" of 4-8 with a roll-up wall (like a garage door) on one side of each, opening into a private "team space". And maybe a roll-up wall on the public side, too.
• enraged_camel 13y ago
  I'd like to provide a different perspective. This is anecdotal, but I have "before and after" experiences that directly relate to the topic. I work as a Presales Engineer for a software company. At the beginning of this year, we switched from a 90s-style cubicle setup with dividers to an open-office setup. When the change was announced last Fall, everyone on my team voiced heavy skepticism. We thought that it would greatly reduce our productivity as well as the already-limited privacy we had in an office setting. We had systems in place to limit the interruptions coming from the sales and marketing teams, and an open-office plan would practically nullify them. But we were the minority, so our concerns were swept under the rug. Fortunately, things ended up well. For the sales and marketing folks, things have improved greatly since we made the switch six months ago. They now sit with us in the same "pods," which are collections of IKEA desks. Each pod has several sales and marketing people and one or two Presales Engineers. They can ask us any question at any time. And unlike with email, which we could previously put on a queue to answer later, or instant message, which we could ignore or temporarily block (DND mode), we now have to provide the answer right away. They can in turn relay that answer to the sales channel or the customer with a much shorter turnaround, which helps to advance and close sales faster. As for us Presales Engineers, I cannot tell if the net result has been a positive or a negative. On the one hand, we now have a lot more distractions. We see people walking around and we hear their conversations. I personally have memorized the phone scripts that my pod-mates use when they call customers. Another negative has been team cohesion. In the previous setup, my team used to sit together on one side of the floor and we could have conversations much more easily. Now we're spread out all over the place, and most of our interaction occurs via group chat (Google Hangout). Collectively, everyone's morale has improved quite a bit. It's very refreshing to be able to walk out of the elevator into an open space, as opposed to a claustrophobic, never-ending group of cubicles. And all the pods are right in front of the windows, which means everyone can now enjoy the Southern California sun and the great view of mountains we have from our office. I purchased a nice set of noise-canceling headphones (company paid for it) that I put on whenever I need to get in "the zone" to work on things that need deep concentration, and I trained my pod-mates to not interrupt me when I have them on. It works really well. Other pods have also come up with systems that work for them. Another collective benefit has been social cohesion. When the teams were separate last year, there was an "us vs. them" mentality. The sales folks saw us engineers as unapproachable, and we saw the sales folks as needy and disruptive. Now though, each pod has become a team, and people are much more willing to help each other and collaborate. This has eliminated a lot of the tension in the office. It is worth noting that the above occurred within the context of a sales team and the engineers that support that team. That said, I'm pretty sure it can also apply to developers. We actually had one of the developer teams move to our floor a couple of months ago (the A/C unit on their floor broke). At first they had the same fears as my team of engineers had. But it ended up working out really well. Sales people never interrupt them, and communication flows from sales to Presales (my team), and from there to this group of developers. Being able to walk over to their desks to show the problem we're having and walking through it in person, as opposed to trying to do it over email or IM, has been a great boon for both parties. Bottom line: open-offices have their pros and cons. The vast majority of Hacker News users are technical people and it seems most of them are adamantly against open-office plans. But as someone who has a bigger picture view (since I work with everyone in the company), I can tell you that there is a chance the net result can be a positive if the plan is implemented well.
• bsg75 13y ago
  Open plans benefit only two categories: 1) Lazy managers or PMs, who either won't expend the effort to use ascertain on their own how things are progressing (code review, ticket / task lists, reports), or don't have the discipline to actually manage without continuously interrupting with questions about things they should already know. 2) Bean counting finance or facilities types, who foolishly look at cost as the primary design factor largely ahead of productivity and work quality (not quantity). Giving people an environment where they can focus when needed (an "office") along with areas where collaboration can occur when desired ("war rooms") is the only approach that gives people the opportunity to excel. I am extremely doubtful that the time and effort to go find someone in their workspace is more time consuming than the cumulative impact of constant distraction, be it visual or auditory. If it is the case, then these people can team up in a single office or work room. Especially in tech, where more and more companies proclaim they provide choice and flexibility in tools, workstations, and even nutrition, forcing everyone to work in one, unfiltered common area is equivalent to putting them in a henhouse. TL;DR - open plan offices are trendy bullshit to avoid spending enough for a comfortable workspace.
• septerr 13y ago
  After working in a cube partitioned off from everyone else on the team for 7 years, I will disagree with the title of this post. I long for a more interactive workspace. I find myself depressed, not motivated and alone. My instincts tell me it would be nice to have a little more human contact. At present I can go days without speaking to others on the team. And without much of a social circle, I think the scenario is quite a big contributor to my depression and lack of motivation.
• rdl 13y ago
  What's with qz.com? They seem to have come out of nowhere to be a pretty awesome source of news, maybe better than TheVerge (who also seemed to come out of nowhere last year). Of the most interesting ~20 stories I've seen in the past week, 5 were qz.
• novaleaf 13y ago
  the header picture in the article is terrible. of course that kind of "open office" is awful. 1) looking at your (single) monitor, you have 4 to 5 people inside your field of vision. talk about distraction city. 2) no desk space. bad for ergonomics, and no "thinking space" either. 3) no personal space. stretch our arms to your sides, and you'll whack your coworker's head. talk about cramming them in like sardines. i run my office as an "open plan" but we have a good 1.5 meters separating people, and people are either facing wall, or window. (not facing each-other)
• damienkatz 13y ago
  Bl
• dba7dba 13y ago
  AutoCad had it right 20 years ago. When I visited their office 20 years ago, EVERY single employee (developer/release engineer/etc) had an enclosed office.
• dschiptsov 13y ago
  What a finding! People knows for ages that open space is beneficial for a manual, drone work, while for tasks in which so-called intellect must be involved, quietness or even solitude is absolutely necessary. This is why a workshop or a Mc. Donald's kitchen is a tightly packed open space, while academics work productively in an isolated pairs or alone.
• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• mosselman 13y ago
  Quartz not working in my Steam browser makes me less happy. What kind of high tech is qz.com using?
• alan_cx 13y ago
  Personally, in the past, an open office speeds up the rate at which I begun to dislike my co-workers, which lead to a dislike of my employment, and hence reduced how long I would stay in a job. That image in the article of the women (could be men) all lined up like battery hens looks like my worst office night mare. You almost couldn't stretch your arms/wings with out assaulting your co-workers. Its considered bad form for animals to just exist like that, why is it OK for humans engaged in work?
• dirtyaura 13y ago
  Does somebody has experience and tips how to effectively organize workspace in a growing early stage startup. When your headcount is growing steadily, flexibility of an open office space is a big plus, but are there good solutions that combine open layouts with private workspace? Headphones, moveable desks, working from home. Anything else? Share your experiences.
• ChrisAntaki 13y ago
  My last job had a pretty open office. It was great actually, really social.
• VLM 13y ago
  Nobody discussed on call? Would I get away with "Sorry boss I can't fix the emergency this afternoon, home is too quiet and comfortable and spacious, but thank god my kids are coming home from school and once they start screaming at each other, playing video games, and watching TV, I'm sure I'll be able to get right to work on the problem."
• tespun 13y ago
  I think the positive and negative effects of open floor plans vary per person and the type of work being done. For example, I can find music disturbing when I need to do work that requires a lot of thought and concentration but it's perfectly fine if I'm doing something mundane. The comfort of having a door to close is also nice so you can focus. Also it's great to be able to every once in a while take a few minute break and do something mindless and non-work related and not have people think you're slacking. Like some others that posted here I think you need to mix and match for a semi-open floor plan that includes, conference rooms, lounges and private offices that people can take turns in. However, when I worked at companies with open floor plans I tended to hang out with my coworkers more outside the office. It was good for team building and for pulling some funny pranks on one another.
• snambi 13y ago
  Oh god! its obvious. Not sure why companies creating a noisy, chaotic workplace instead of a calm serene one. One reason may be to cram more people into a small space.
• fizzbuzzd 13y ago
  Another very frustrating thing about open-office plans is that it makes me seem like an asshole. There are many days where I'll be annoyed or frustrated debugging something, and generally being a buzzkill while everyone else shoots the shit. I have no problem with everyone else shooting the shit, but I can sense people are afraid of the look I have on my face. Some days I just need to be away from people.