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My ThinkPad running Vista has all the advantages you list for Mac OS X--I don't have "gestures" but I get to use the TrackPoint + 3 buttons instead, which I gre

My ThinkPad running Vista has all the advantages you list for Mac OS X--I don't have "gestures" but I get to use the TrackPoint + 3 buttons instead, which I greatly prefer. Plus, I have "page up" and "page down" keys. Can anybody give an example of something that makes Mac OS X better than Vista? I am not worried about driver issues because my hardware vendor gives me good drivers. I'm not worried about malware because I use UAC and because the network clients I use (e.g. IE8 and Chrome) all use more layers of malware mitigation than are even available on Mac OS X. Also, why do you count your company's preference for Microsoft's 8-year-old version of Windows over modern Mac OS X against Microsoft? Doesn't it show instead that Windows was better 8 years ago than Mac OS X is today?

mechanical_fish 17y ago
Can anybody give an example of something that makes Mac OS X better than Vista? It's Unix. That's the big one. Unix isn't necessarily the Platonic ideal of an operating system, but it is the standard. Learn it, and you know an OS that runs on almost all the hardware in the world and that powers the majority of the web. No more Cygwin. No struggling with bizarrely different Windows semantics. No falling behind the open-source development curve -- git works better, ruby works better. Any software which is developed on Mac or Linux works better on Macs or Linux boxes -- that's where the bugs get fixed first. Obvious other reasons to love the Mac include really not worrying about malware, and the Mac software community and its well-designed Mac-only apps. I'm not a heavy user of such things, yet even I have a few that I would be loath to give up: 1Password, Quicksilver, Textmate [1], Pixelmator, xScope, iWork, HandBrake, VisualHub. A final obvious reason: Mac users have Windows around if we want it. [2] I've got two Windows VMs on this machine right now, which I use for the dreaded Quickbooks (argh), the occasional game, and (of course) cross-browser testing of web page rendering. --- [1] Though I use emacs most of the time. [2] Windows users can apparently also have the Mac around... but it's not supported, and they have to solve a lot of those pesky driver issues.
- slackerIII 17y ago
  There are lots of reasons to love OSX, but I don't think the malware argument is standing up very well these days. http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941 http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941 "It’s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows."
- ashr 17y ago
  All of these sound like suggestions that you just "like" OS X better than any MS OS. "No falling behind the open-source development curve" I agree with this one somewhat. All others are simply not convincing enough. Malware argument is just bogus.
- evanlong 17y ago
  I know handbrake was originally for os x but it does work on windows now as well.
richcollins 17y ago
Checklists of features tell you nothing about how well they are implemented. OS X features are implemented with attention to all of the details that make them a joy to use. I rarely get frustrated anymore because my computer isn't doing want I want it to. Check that. I still get seriously frustrated whenever I make a new feature for our site, verify that it works in every browser other than IE, and then test it in IE to see that I need to perform some javascript, css & dom acrobatics to get it working.
dougp 17y ago
I have a Thinkpad running XP and it is fine except every time I resume from sleep I have to repair my wifi connection. In addition for being the "premium windows laptop" it sure comes bundled with a lot of annoying software (password manager that invades every browser installed, another wifi icon for the task bar that is always lit green to confuse the issue, etc)
alex_c 17y ago
>Can anybody give an example of something that makes Mac OS X better than Vista? Sleep mode that works (quickly).
- miracle 17y ago
  The suspend to ram mode worked since windows xp on thinkpads.
- briansmith 17y ago
  Suspend-to-RAM resumes almost instantly for me and even suspend-to-disk only takes about 10 seconds to resume on my ThinkPad.
symesc 17y ago
I don't count my company's use of XP against Microsoft. I am suggesting that's one of the challenges they face: installed base. We didn't upgrade to Vista because there was no compelling reason. The hardware requirements were stiff and none of our business software was actually going to run better on Vista than it already did on XP. We still pay Microsoft plenty through our Enterprise Agreement, and they're a good company to deal with if you're running a corporation. I hope I didn't imply that I dislike Microsoft or their software. I tried not to. I honestly want them to get BETTER at what they're doing because competition is healthy in any market. I think Microsoft has an innovation problem, and an innovation problem is death in the technology game. If you're not innovating, someone will innovate for you. The lock-in that Windows and Office provided over the years is decreasing as things move to the cloud, so personal preference can now be a bigger factor in the choice of OS you use to reach the cloud. Regarding your question about something that makes OS X better than Vista, for your purposes the answer may be "nothing." I too use Chrome on the PC and love it. I wish it was available on the Mac. I do believe Apple is innovating faster than Microsoft, especially on the OS front. When one considers OS X drives the iPhone as well as the Mac, there's no question who is driving the industry at this point. The iPhone was launched publicly over two years ago and still no one has released anything close. Two years is an eternity in technology, and until someone releases a viable competitor we don't yet know how truly far behind second place is. Spend some time with a Mac. Borrow a friend's. You'll like it. It may not be for you, but you'll appreciate seeing things through a slightly different lens.
cubicle67 17y ago
> Can anybody give an example of something that makes Mac OS X better than Vista? Mouse over a word, Ctrl + Cmd + d. Love it.
chanux 17y ago
AAPL reported better results anyway. I can't compare Mac & Vista but I know that the 8 year pld XP is better than Vista. I'm happy with Ubuntu GNU/Linux though.
- briansmith 17y ago
  I think a lot of people would say Microsoft had the better quarter, considering Microsoft earned a $13.7 billion profit and Apple earned a $1.21 billion profit. By the way, your use of the Apple ticker symbol made me curious, so I checked AAPL vs MSFT on Google Finance. I am amazed that APPL has 2/3 the market cap of MSFT but only 1/10th the profit.

mechanical_fish 17y ago

Can anybody give an example of something that makes Mac OS X better than Vista? It's Unix. That's the big one. Unix isn't necessarily the Platonic ideal of an operating system, but it is the standard. Learn it, and you know an OS that runs on almost all the hardware in the world and that powers the majority of the web. No more Cygwin. No struggling with bizarrely different Windows semantics. No falling behind the open-source development curve -- git works better, ruby works better. Any software which is developed on Mac or Linux works better on Macs or Linux boxes -- that's where the bugs get fixed first. Obvious other reasons to love the Mac include really not worrying about malware, and the Mac software community and its well-designed Mac-only apps. I'm not a heavy user of such things, yet even I have a few that I would be loath to give up: 1Password, Quicksilver, Textmate [1], Pixelmator, xScope, iWork, HandBrake, VisualHub. A final obvious reason: Mac users have Windows around if we want it. [2] I've got two Windows VMs on this machine right now, which I use for the dreaded Quickbooks (argh), the occasional game, and (of course) cross-browser testing of web page rendering. --- [1] Though I use emacs most of the time. [2] Windows users can apparently also have the Mac around... but it's not supported, and they have to solve a lot of those pesky driver issues.

slackerIII 17y ago
There are lots of reasons to love OSX, but I don't think the malware argument is standing up very well these days. http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941 http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941 "It’s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don’t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don’t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you’d find in Windows."
ashr 17y ago
All of these sound like suggestions that you just "like" OS X better than any MS OS. "No falling behind the open-source development curve" I agree with this one somewhat. All others are simply not convincing enough. Malware argument is just bogus.
evanlong 17y ago
I know handbrake was originally for os x but it does work on windows now as well.

richcollins 17y ago

Checklists of features tell you nothing about how well they are implemented. OS X features are implemented with attention to all of the details that make them a joy to use. I rarely get frustrated anymore because my computer isn't doing want I want it to. Check that. I still get seriously frustrated whenever I make a new feature for our site, verify that it works in every browser other than IE, and then test it in IE to see that I need to perform some javascript, css & dom acrobatics to get it working.

dougp 17y ago

I have a Thinkpad running XP and it is fine except every time I resume from sleep I have to repair my wifi connection. In addition for being the "premium windows laptop" it sure comes bundled with a lot of annoying software (password manager that invades every browser installed, another wifi icon for the task bar that is always lit green to confuse the issue, etc)

alex_c 17y ago

>Can anybody give an example of something that makes Mac OS X better than Vista? Sleep mode that works (quickly).

miracle 17y ago
The suspend to ram mode worked since windows xp on thinkpads.
briansmith 17y ago
Suspend-to-RAM resumes almost instantly for me and even suspend-to-disk only takes about 10 seconds to resume on my ThinkPad.

symesc 17y ago

I don't count my company's use of XP against Microsoft. I am suggesting that's one of the challenges they face: installed base. We didn't upgrade to Vista because there was no compelling reason. The hardware requirements were stiff and none of our business software was actually going to run better on Vista than it already did on XP. We still pay Microsoft plenty through our Enterprise Agreement, and they're a good company to deal with if you're running a corporation. I hope I didn't imply that I dislike Microsoft or their software. I tried not to. I honestly want them to get BETTER at what they're doing because competition is healthy in any market. I think Microsoft has an innovation problem, and an innovation problem is death in the technology game. If you're not innovating, someone will innovate for you. The lock-in that Windows and Office provided over the years is decreasing as things move to the cloud, so personal preference can now be a bigger factor in the choice of OS you use to reach the cloud. Regarding your question about something that makes OS X better than Vista, for your purposes the answer may be "nothing." I too use Chrome on the PC and love it. I wish it was available on the Mac. I do believe Apple is innovating faster than Microsoft, especially on the OS front. When one considers OS X drives the iPhone as well as the Mac, there's no question who is driving the industry at this point. The iPhone was launched publicly over two years ago and still no one has released anything close. Two years is an eternity in technology, and until someone releases a viable competitor we don't yet know how truly far behind second place is. Spend some time with a Mac. Borrow a friend's. You'll like it. It may not be for you, but you'll appreciate seeing things through a slightly different lens.

cubicle67 17y ago

> Can anybody give an example of something that makes Mac OS X better than Vista? Mouse over a word, Ctrl + Cmd + d. Love it.

chanux 17y ago

AAPL reported better results anyway. I can't compare Mac & Vista but I know that the 8 year pld XP is better than Vista. I'm happy with Ubuntu GNU/Linux though.

briansmith 17y ago
I think a lot of people would say Microsoft had the better quarter, considering Microsoft earned a $13.7 billion profit and Apple earned a $1.21 billion profit. By the way, your use of the Apple ticker symbol made me curious, so I checked AAPL vs MSFT on Google Finance. I am amazed that APPL has 2/3 the market cap of MSFT but only 1/10th the profit.