5 ms·

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you

by Udo 13y ago

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an upper cap for this effect, but I'd argue that 99% of us will never reach that.

soup10 13y ago
This rings really true. It makes me sad when high income earners don't understand this, and live at or above their means. Instead of living below your means and stress free, many people get trapped in a sick consumerist loop where they spend at their means and/or take on debt. The enlightened know that the stress reduction of never having money problems is far better than living a life of maximum comfort/extravagance. I wouldn't say that not middle-income means you have no freedom. It's more about perspective. If you view money as an enormous burden on your freedom to do whatever you want, then it becomes that. But you can do whatever you want, regardless. There's no requirement to have "fuck you money" to have a "fuck you, i'm not going to take your shit" attitude about life and relationships.
- evincarofautumn 13y ago
  > The enlightened know that the stress reduction of never having money problems is far better than living a life of maximum comfort/extravagance. Sound advice. Even though my income has happily grown over the past year, I’m trying to keep my value perception of money as close as possible to where it was when I was a poor student, to maintain my sanity as much as anything else.
Swizec 13y ago
This, so much this. My outlook on life is unimaginably different now that I have a few thousand euro lying around my bank account than it was right after I burned my last startup and I was forced to borrow shampoo. Money == freedom.
- room271 13y ago
  I think your experience is probably better expressed as: Poverty != Freedom (Or rather, being dirt poor can get in the way of the good life.) Most people in Western countries are not forced to borrow shampoo. If you are scraping around for basic needs than obviously your life choices are limited, but you don't need loads of money to move beyond this point.
  - Swizec 13y ago
    A few thousand euro is not loads of money. It's enough to, say, live for two or three months without income.
ryanmolden 13y ago
Freedom is power. Power need not be something wielded over others in some cartoony-villian way. In this case it is a kind of countervailing force to prevent others from coercing you into doing things you disagree with solely because they are the source of your income and you need said income to keep all the "balls in the air", so to speak. Not falling into the debt trap, or at least keeping debt reasonable, is simply a way to retain the inherent power you have as an autonomous being.
simonswords82 13y ago
I read that the upper cap is a mere $67,500 per annum. An income level above this amount, say double, does not double your happiness.
corresation 13y ago
http://www.lomography.com/magazine/lifestyle/2011/10/06/steve-jobs-sitting-in-an-almost-unfurnished-room-only-lit-by-a-tiffany-lamp-having-a-cup-of-tea http://www.lomography.com/magazine/lifestyle/2011/10/06/stev... I've seen that picture and story referenced many times as an example of a pure drive that isn't influenced by money. That it was "all you need". At the time Steve Jobs was already a multi, multi-millionaire (from the IPO of Apple in 1980 he was worth some $200 million). He had the freedom to never worry about basic needs, could travel the world at his leisure, could do essentially what he wanted, etc. He had the sort of freedom that such wealth provides. It is convenient to be in that position and no longer worry about money, because you're already there.
- tonyedgecombe 13y ago
  Seeing that photo all the time makes me cringe a bit, after all this was the guy who ordered this: http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/7158603/Steve_jobs_yacht_with_birds_large_verge_medium%20_landscape.jpeg http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/7158603/Steve_jo...
  - corresation 13y ago
    I'm getting a policy denied on that (they must have a set referrer), however I assume it's the custom yacht. I have to say for a man involved with so many brilliant, beautiful things, that yacht is truly the ugliest yacht I've ever seen.
eskaytee 13y ago
Money is more than freedom. Money is safety as well. I can't really understand why this isn't more obvious to people. And I'm not talking about living in run-down neighborhoods as a result of being poor. Having money gives you the safety of "if I'm stranded I have money to buy a place to stay for the night" or "if I'm hungry, I will be able to find a place to eat." I understand that a lot of people don't understand these feelings if you haven't been poor but they are real.
hurker 13y ago
"Money is freedom". I think we can all more or less agree with this. But what I don't hear very often is: "Should it be?" I think it is very obvious that no, it shouldn't. Implicit in the statement that money == freedom is !money == !freedom. Without money you are not free. I want to be very clear here: This. Is. Wrong. Do I have a solution? No. Not a palatable one. But I urge you to at least think about it. There are not enough people of means giving this fundamental question any thought. The world will go on regardless of whether or not we end this immoral game of money. But I am willing to bet that the future will look back at us and be disgusted and sickened. Can't we at least try?
- ca98am79 13y ago
  I don't agree that money == freedom. I think there is only a connection if you make it for yourself. There are many very rich people trapped in lives they don't want. There are many poor people who feel very free.
ca98am79 13y ago
There are some people who had no money, but did amazing things. Gandhi, Mother Teresa, etc.. Even Steve Jobs had nothing when he first started Apple. I keep hearing how money is "freedom" or buys you fearlessness. I don't buy it. Freedom and fearlessness happen inside. And, when you have those things inside, amazing things happen on the outside. With or without money - it doesn't matter.
lsc 13y ago
>There's probably an upper cap for this effect, but I'd argue that 99% of us will never reach that. I think that you have diminishing returns on this as you earn more money... I don't think it's so much a hard cut off. The 'freedom' difference between being dependent on family for rent and being able to support yourself is larger, in my opinion, than the freedom difference between owning your home and owning a block of apartments. In my mind, if you can make a programmers wage, and you feel like you can easily get another job if fired? you have a pretty large degree of freedom. I also think that 'job security' or, perhaps 'perceived income security' has as much to do with this freedom as does the amount you earn. If you feel like your boss can fire you at any time, and if you feel like you can't easily get a new job? you... are going to feel rather less free than someone who either thinks they can get another job fairly easily or who feels that they can't be fired.

by Udo 13y ago

soup10 13y ago

This rings really true. It makes me sad when high income earners don't understand this, and live at or above their means. Instead of living below your means and stress free, many people get trapped in a sick consumerist loop where they spend at their means and/or take on debt. The enlightened know that the stress reduction of never having money problems is far better than living a life of maximum comfort/extravagance. I wouldn't say that not middle-income means you have no freedom. It's more about perspective. If you view money as an enormous burden on your freedom to do whatever you want, then it becomes that. But you can do whatever you want, regardless. There's no requirement to have "fuck you money" to have a "fuck you, i'm not going to take your shit" attitude about life and relationships.

evincarofautumn 13y ago
> The enlightened know that the stress reduction of never having money problems is far better than living a life of maximum comfort/extravagance. Sound advice. Even though my income has happily grown over the past year, I’m trying to keep my value perception of money as close as possible to where it was when I was a poor student, to maintain my sanity as much as anything else.

Swizec 13y ago

This, so much this. My outlook on life is unimaginably different now that I have a few thousand euro lying around my bank account than it was right after I burned my last startup and I was forced to borrow shampoo. Money == freedom.

room271 13y ago
I think your experience is probably better expressed as: Poverty != Freedom (Or rather, being dirt poor can get in the way of the good life.) Most people in Western countries are not forced to borrow shampoo. If you are scraping around for basic needs than obviously your life choices are limited, but you don't need loads of money to move beyond this point.
- Swizec 13y ago
  A few thousand euro is not loads of money. It's enough to, say, live for two or three months without income.

ryanmolden 13y ago

Freedom is power. Power need not be something wielded over others in some cartoony-villian way. In this case it is a kind of countervailing force to prevent others from coercing you into doing things you disagree with solely because they are the source of your income and you need said income to keep all the "balls in the air", so to speak. Not falling into the debt trap, or at least keeping debt reasonable, is simply a way to retain the inherent power you have as an autonomous being.

simonswords82 13y ago

I read that the upper cap is a mere $67,500 per annum. An income level above this amount, say double, does not double your happiness.

corresation 13y ago

http://www.lomography.com/magazine/lifestyle/2011/10/06/steve-jobs-sitting-in-an-almost-unfurnished-room-only-lit-by-a-tiffany-lamp-having-a-cup-of-tea http://www.lomography.com/magazine/lifestyle/2011/10/06/stev... I've seen that picture and story referenced many times as an example of a pure drive that isn't influenced by money. That it was "all you need". At the time Steve Jobs was already a multi, multi-millionaire (from the IPO of Apple in 1980 he was worth some $200 million). He had the freedom to never worry about basic needs, could travel the world at his leisure, could do essentially what he wanted, etc. He had the sort of freedom that such wealth provides. It is convenient to be in that position and no longer worry about money, because you're already there.

tonyedgecombe 13y ago
Seeing that photo all the time makes me cringe a bit, after all this was the guy who ordered this: http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/7158603/Steve_jobs_yacht_with_birds_large_verge_medium%20_landscape.jpeg http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/7158603/Steve_jo...
- corresation 13y ago
  I'm getting a policy denied on that (they must have a set referrer), however I assume it's the custom yacht. I have to say for a man involved with so many brilliant, beautiful things, that yacht is truly the ugliest yacht I've ever seen.

eskaytee 13y ago

Money is more than freedom. Money is safety as well. I can't really understand why this isn't more obvious to people. And I'm not talking about living in run-down neighborhoods as a result of being poor. Having money gives you the safety of "if I'm stranded I have money to buy a place to stay for the night" or "if I'm hungry, I will be able to find a place to eat." I understand that a lot of people don't understand these feelings if you haven't been poor but they are real.

hurker 13y ago

"Money is freedom". I think we can all more or less agree with this. But what I don't hear very often is: "Should it be?" I think it is very obvious that no, it shouldn't. Implicit in the statement that money == freedom is !money == !freedom. Without money you are not free. I want to be very clear here: This. Is. Wrong. Do I have a solution? No. Not a palatable one. But I urge you to at least think about it. There are not enough people of means giving this fundamental question any thought. The world will go on regardless of whether or not we end this immoral game of money. But I am willing to bet that the future will look back at us and be disgusted and sickened. Can't we at least try?

ca98am79 13y ago
I don't agree that money == freedom. I think there is only a connection if you make it for yourself. There are many very rich people trapped in lives they don't want. There are many poor people who feel very free.

ca98am79 13y ago

There are some people who had no money, but did amazing things. Gandhi, Mother Teresa, etc.. Even Steve Jobs had nothing when he first started Apple. I keep hearing how money is "freedom" or buys you fearlessness. I don't buy it. Freedom and fearlessness happen inside. And, when you have those things inside, amazing things happen on the outside. With or without money - it doesn't matter.

lsc 13y ago

>There's probably an upper cap for this effect, but I'd argue that 99% of us will never reach that. I think that you have diminishing returns on this as you earn more money... I don't think it's so much a hard cut off. The 'freedom' difference between being dependent on family for rent and being able to support yourself is larger, in my opinion, than the freedom difference between owning your home and owning a block of apartments. In my mind, if you can make a programmers wage, and you feel like you can easily get another job if fired? you have a pretty large degree of freedom. I also think that 'job security' or, perhaps 'perceived income security' has as much to do with this freedom as does the amount you earn. If you feel like your boss can fire you at any time, and if you feel like you can't easily get a new job? you... are going to feel rather less free than someone who either thinks they can get another job fairly easily or who feels that they can't be fired.