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Teen here. I'm firmly in the "hate it but can't stop using it" camp. I've tried G+, and for a brief period a few of my friends tried it as well, but we switche

Teen here. I'm firmly in the "hate it but can't stop using it" camp. I've tried G+, and for a brief period a few of my friends tried it as well, but we switched back when it failed to reach critical mass. That's all Facebook has going for it, really, is the people using it; I'm sure most of us would switch to a better network if given the chance, but we won't do it unless a significant majority of our friends come along with us. I don't like Facebook's approach to privacy, I absolutely hate how many permissions the Facebook app requires on my Android phone, but if I cut myself off of Facebook I'm losing out on a huge, huge percentage of social interaction with people who I know but am not particularly close to (which for most people is at least 80% of their friends list). Plus all the history I've amassed on Facebook since grade 7. For better or worse, teens are stuck on Facebook for the time being, and unlike the move from MySpace, I don't see switching off of it happening any time soon. Sure, there's Twitter, Instagram, etc. which are also heavily used by my age group, but only as secondary networks - Facebook remains the definition of online social interaction. EDIT: A few more thoughts: An important part of it mentioned elsewhere in the thread is the fact that Facebook basically acts as a glorified address book/communications hub - if I want Chris to come to my party or add him to a group conversation about something or share a picture with him, all I need is his name. Not an email, not a phone number, just a name. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Nothing else comes close.

mosqutip 13y ago
I think pretty much everyone who uses Facebook is, at least partially, in this mindset. The network is so large that people feel as though they're missing out if they leave (whether or not that is actually true).
- marssaxman 13y ago
  I signed up again, after a 2+ year absence, because I discovered solid proof that I was missing out. People would be surprised not to see me at some event or other, and I would comment that I hadn't been invited, and this would create confusion - "well, let me check facebook, I'm sure I invited you" - "I'm not on Facebook" - "Ohh....." One of my friends had a special list of half a dozen people he still sent emailed event invitations to. It's extra work, though, and most people stopped bothering. I decided that my hate for Facebook inc. was not strong enough to make me willing to inconvenience my friends, so I signed back up.
- 6d0debc071 13y ago
  When people wanted to organise birthday parties at my last office they just added it as an appointment in the calendar. I suspect that if most email clients ever are well integrated with calendars then that'll probably be the end for facebook. ATM, however, there's no good calendar software integrated into most email clients so arranging a meet - even if you've got the social connections stored on your phone - is a pain in the neck. :/
prezjordan 13y ago
I left, then got an internship in the valley and needed a way to interact with my fellow interns before flying out. So I came crawling back. Everything you've said resonates with me - "not particularly close to" is also a HUGE chunk of my social circle. Makes you think, though, do I really need to keep in touch with these people? If I really needed to, I could find a way (call, SMS, email, etc).
- anxx 13y ago
  I have gone cold turkey from Facebook, after years of checking/updating multiple times a day. And it wasn't hard, because I just realized that I wasn't interested in the lives of the 80% "acquantainces" any more. The fact that somebody I knew at some point got married is really not important to me (and my "Like" doesn't mean much to them). And I feel that if I need to contact a friend after a long time, it is rather easy to pick up where you left off.
  - vacri 13y ago
    I log into facebook about once every three months, usually when someone tells me in meatspace 'I sent you something on FB', like the invite details to a party. When there I have a poke around, and see how banal the day-to-day feed is. On the up side, I sometimes have a chat with a random friend I met on my travels, but that in itself is not worth being sucked into the facebook machine, which is basically treading social water.
Perceval 13y ago
> if I cut myself off of Facebook I'm losing out on a huge, huge percentage of social interaction Is it possible to have a Facebook account but just use it as a back-end? For instance, don't use the website or the app. But use Cue to pull events out onto your calendar, and Verbs to get Facebook chat, and so on? https://www.cueup.com/ https://www.cueup.com/ http://verbs.im/ http://verbs.im/ Is there a way to use a constellation of apps that access Facebook info so that you effectively don't have to be on Facebook itself?
- stephengillie 13y ago
  Cool, I didn't know about Verbs for chat. I've linked FB to my Google Calendar before, the only problem with that was people making month-long events for college promotions -- you don't realize how much calendar spam noise your friends make until that data leaves Facebook's filters. Is there value in utilizing Facebook's databases and allowing them to track your connections, but having to manage your own front-end for everything?
- stevewillows 13y ago
  I don't even use cueup. You can pull fb events directly into a gcal. For me, using fb as a backend has proved to be really effective in eliminating a lot of the social 'noise' while not missing out on fb-only event invites.
- ryguytilidie 13y ago
  This is awesome. I actually deleted the app and stuff for a few days, but the main problem was with stuff like events. I would have an event on FB but forget where it was and have to log in to check. I'm really not sure I could emphasize enough what a POS facebook is for actually interacting with other human beings.
- gcr 13y ago
  There was a time (maybe it's still possible) when Facebook Chat used XMPP, which means you could use a client like bitlbee or pdigin to connect.
  - 13y ago
johnchristopher 13y ago
> An important part of it mentioned elsewhere in the thread is the fact that Facebook basically acts as a glorified address book/communications hub - if I want Chris to come to my party or add him to a group conversation about something or share a picture with him, all I need is his name. Not an email, not a phone number, just a name. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Nothing else comes close. I thought I read somewhere teens aren't using real names on FB ? What's the general usage ?
- dkulchenko 13y ago
  Of the few hundred friends I have on Facebook (almost all under 18), not one is using a pseudonym. Not sure where you heard that.
  - johnchristopher 13y ago
    I believe I read it here when the google plus real name policy was debated. Here's an old article mentionning this fake name trend: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/02/facebook-children-bullying-fake-names http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/02/facebook-child... I am not a teen anymore but I find this surprising because IRC, MSN was all the rage when I was younger and nickname was really the norm. Just like those _xx_daemon_xx_@hotmail.com addresses. I am a supporter of half-anonymous practices and I am surprised it's not more widespread than I believed. Update: And from http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-And-Privacy/Summary-of-Findings.aspx http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-A... I can see fake names seem to be marginal, with people managing at least one real/official account.
- ethnt 13y ago
  Within my friends (high school), some use pseudonyms (or middle names as last names) to avoid being seen in revealing photos by colleges or employers.
- superuser2 13y ago
  Exactly two people out of 251 on my list have ever used pseudonyms. In both cases it was brief as it annoyed the hell out of everyone else and we told them so. A spam-free email account where everyone can be reached by real name is really quite attractive.
genwin 13y ago
So thankful that Facebook came after all my friends got email! Only one got sucked into Facebook.
- __--__ 13y ago
  You're lucky, then. Facebook didn't become big until after all my friends were using email and AIM. They still switched to facebook because it's easier than email and AIM. I sent one of them an email last month and they told me they were confused because it didn't have a "like" button on it. o_O
parm289 13y ago
If you don't mind me asking, what do you/we think would constitute a better network? You mention privacy as a key factor -- I agree, but rationally a free social network must encourage sharing to stock its shelves with user information to provide to advertisers. In the other direction, there's App.net which can afford to enforce privacy because its income depends only on membership fees. (Unfortunately, membership fees inhibit the network effect.) So what would make Facebook better? A better photo-sharing experience? An Events system which could interface with external apps? Or, does it go deeper? More users, I think, are recognizing that Facebook shows their friends only at their best, and are struggling to compare their lives to the glorified lives of their friends. Will the next social network open the door to deeper sharing, as opposed to more sharing? (Path comes to mind here...)
- dkulchenko 13y ago
  I have no problem with the fact that Facebook has to gather and distribute some sort of information on you to get advertiser money, it's just a matter of the way they do it. There's obviously the whole Facebook uploading all your contacts without your permission issue (IIRC, that's still going on) and the fact that for whatever reason whenever I open up the Facebook app on an Android device, the GPS icon in my notification starts blinking that my location is being obtained. Which, if it were a rough network-based location to get my current city for targeted ads is fine - but it's not, and obtaining my exact location without my permission is not okay. (That's one of the things iOS gets right - per-app configurable permissions, it's a shame Android has nothing like it without a custom ROM.) To clarify, I think Facebook (the app) itself is fantastic. The issue isn't the tech, it's the shady behavior by the company who develops it.
  - parm289 13y ago
    I agree that the technology is impressive -- after all, serving a billion users boggles the mind. I was getting at the faults of the platform, though. It seems that people are satisfied with Facebook's groups, chat, and events features, but not the news feed/status updates portion of the site. I was wondering aloud if a social network like Path, which seeks to encourage more honest sharing as opposed to a greater volume of sharing, offered some insight into why people are becoming dissatisfied with Facebook.
superuser2 13y ago
>all I need is his name. Not an email, not a phone number, just a name. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Nothing else comes close. This is the primary value proposition of Facebook for me, and why I continue to defend real-name policies. Not having to mess with a set of aliases is really quite convenient.
- xentronium 13y ago
  There is a lot of difference between being able to set/search by real name and being forced to do so.
wambotron 13y ago
I don't use Facebook personally. My wife and family use it quite heavily, and I've seen the interactions on it. Those relationships you think you're keeping alive by staying on Facebook are not worth keeping, generally. I graduated before social networks were a thing, but I distinctly remember having groups of friends at school who just didn't matter much outside of it. I'm 30 now and only keep in touch with two people from HS. They were my best friends at the time, and have largely stayed that way. When I am trying to find someone to hang with, I just call or text them. There's no back and forth online with everyone watching our conversation, liking or commenting on it. There is no judgment. My wife has almost everyone from high school added as friends on Facebook, but when it comes down to finding a real friend when she needs one, not a single one of them are there. Sure, they'll like a status or comment on something she writes, but none of it means anything. It saddens me that people feel like they NEED these relationships that would naturally disintegrate without online networks.
- LordHumungous 13y ago
  >It saddens me that people feel like they NEED these relationships that would naturally disintegrate without online networks. >When I am trying to find someone to hang with, I just call or text them. It saddens me that you need these relationships that would disintegrate without cellular communications technology.
  - derleth 13y ago
    It saddens me that there are people with friendships that would disintegrate if they left their current job.
- harshadura 13y ago
  true story. agree with you.
dattaway 13y ago
I found facebook cannot beat google+ if focused on tech personalities. Facebook is great for my old world of interaction, but google+ appears to be better optimized for the scientific world. Both stimulate my mind, but I'm starting to spend more time on google+. Facebook development seems to have long been down the path to the cash cow.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

mosqutip 13y ago

I think pretty much everyone who uses Facebook is, at least partially, in this mindset. The network is so large that people feel as though they're missing out if they leave (whether or not that is actually true).

marssaxman 13y ago
I signed up again, after a 2+ year absence, because I discovered solid proof that I was missing out. People would be surprised not to see me at some event or other, and I would comment that I hadn't been invited, and this would create confusion - "well, let me check facebook, I'm sure I invited you" - "I'm not on Facebook" - "Ohh....." One of my friends had a special list of half a dozen people he still sent emailed event invitations to. It's extra work, though, and most people stopped bothering. I decided that my hate for Facebook inc. was not strong enough to make me willing to inconvenience my friends, so I signed back up.
6d0debc071 13y ago
When people wanted to organise birthday parties at my last office they just added it as an appointment in the calendar. I suspect that if most email clients ever are well integrated with calendars then that'll probably be the end for facebook. ATM, however, there's no good calendar software integrated into most email clients so arranging a meet - even if you've got the social connections stored on your phone - is a pain in the neck. :/

prezjordan 13y ago

I left, then got an internship in the valley and needed a way to interact with my fellow interns before flying out. So I came crawling back. Everything you've said resonates with me - "not particularly close to" is also a HUGE chunk of my social circle. Makes you think, though, do I really need to keep in touch with these people? If I really needed to, I could find a way (call, SMS, email, etc).

anxx 13y ago
I have gone cold turkey from Facebook, after years of checking/updating multiple times a day. And it wasn't hard, because I just realized that I wasn't interested in the lives of the 80% "acquantainces" any more. The fact that somebody I knew at some point got married is really not important to me (and my "Like" doesn't mean much to them). And I feel that if I need to contact a friend after a long time, it is rather easy to pick up where you left off.
- vacri 13y ago
  I log into facebook about once every three months, usually when someone tells me in meatspace 'I sent you something on FB', like the invite details to a party. When there I have a poke around, and see how banal the day-to-day feed is. On the up side, I sometimes have a chat with a random friend I met on my travels, but that in itself is not worth being sucked into the facebook machine, which is basically treading social water.

Perceval 13y ago

> if I cut myself off of Facebook I'm losing out on a huge, huge percentage of social interaction Is it possible to have a Facebook account but just use it as a back-end? For instance, don't use the website or the app. But use Cue to pull events out onto your calendar, and Verbs to get Facebook chat, and so on? https://www.cueup.com/ https://www.cueup.com/ http://verbs.im/ http://verbs.im/ Is there a way to use a constellation of apps that access Facebook info so that you effectively don't have to be on Facebook itself?

stephengillie 13y ago
Cool, I didn't know about Verbs for chat. I've linked FB to my Google Calendar before, the only problem with that was people making month-long events for college promotions -- you don't realize how much calendar spam noise your friends make until that data leaves Facebook's filters. Is there value in utilizing Facebook's databases and allowing them to track your connections, but having to manage your own front-end for everything?
stevewillows 13y ago
I don't even use cueup. You can pull fb events directly into a gcal. For me, using fb as a backend has proved to be really effective in eliminating a lot of the social 'noise' while not missing out on fb-only event invites.
ryguytilidie 13y ago
This is awesome. I actually deleted the app and stuff for a few days, but the main problem was with stuff like events. I would have an event on FB but forget where it was and have to log in to check. I'm really not sure I could emphasize enough what a POS facebook is for actually interacting with other human beings.
gcr 13y ago
There was a time (maybe it's still possible) when Facebook Chat used XMPP, which means you could use a client like bitlbee or pdigin to connect.
- 13y ago

johnchristopher 13y ago

> An important part of it mentioned elsewhere in the thread is the fact that Facebook basically acts as a glorified address book/communications hub - if I want Chris to come to my party or add him to a group conversation about something or share a picture with him, all I need is his name. Not an email, not a phone number, just a name. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Nothing else comes close. I thought I read somewhere teens aren't using real names on FB ? What's the general usage ?

dkulchenko 13y ago
Of the few hundred friends I have on Facebook (almost all under 18), not one is using a pseudonym. Not sure where you heard that.
- johnchristopher 13y ago
  I believe I read it here when the google plus real name policy was debated. Here's an old article mentionning this fake name trend: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/02/facebook-children-bullying-fake-names http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/oct/02/facebook-child... I am not a teen anymore but I find this surprising because IRC, MSN was all the rage when I was younger and nickname was really the norm. Just like those _xx_daemon_xx_@hotmail.com addresses. I am a supporter of half-anonymous practices and I am surprised it's not more widespread than I believed. Update: And from http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-And-Privacy/Summary-of-Findings.aspx http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-A... I can see fake names seem to be marginal, with people managing at least one real/official account.
ethnt 13y ago
Within my friends (high school), some use pseudonyms (or middle names as last names) to avoid being seen in revealing photos by colleges or employers.
superuser2 13y ago
Exactly two people out of 251 on my list have ever used pseudonyms. In both cases it was brief as it annoyed the hell out of everyone else and we told them so. A spam-free email account where everyone can be reached by real name is really quite attractive.

genwin 13y ago

So thankful that Facebook came after all my friends got email! Only one got sucked into Facebook.

__--__ 13y ago
You're lucky, then. Facebook didn't become big until after all my friends were using email and AIM. They still switched to facebook because it's easier than email and AIM. I sent one of them an email last month and they told me they were confused because it didn't have a "like" button on it. o_O

parm289 13y ago

If you don't mind me asking, what do you/we think would constitute a better network? You mention privacy as a key factor -- I agree, but rationally a free social network must encourage sharing to stock its shelves with user information to provide to advertisers. In the other direction, there's App.net which can afford to enforce privacy because its income depends only on membership fees. (Unfortunately, membership fees inhibit the network effect.) So what would make Facebook better? A better photo-sharing experience? An Events system which could interface with external apps? Or, does it go deeper? More users, I think, are recognizing that Facebook shows their friends only at their best, and are struggling to compare their lives to the glorified lives of their friends. Will the next social network open the door to deeper sharing, as opposed to more sharing? (Path comes to mind here...)

dkulchenko 13y ago
I have no problem with the fact that Facebook has to gather and distribute some sort of information on you to get advertiser money, it's just a matter of the way they do it. There's obviously the whole Facebook uploading all your contacts without your permission issue (IIRC, that's still going on) and the fact that for whatever reason whenever I open up the Facebook app on an Android device, the GPS icon in my notification starts blinking that my location is being obtained. Which, if it were a rough network-based location to get my current city for targeted ads is fine - but it's not, and obtaining my exact location without my permission is not okay. (That's one of the things iOS gets right - per-app configurable permissions, it's a shame Android has nothing like it without a custom ROM.) To clarify, I think Facebook (the app) itself is fantastic. The issue isn't the tech, it's the shady behavior by the company who develops it.
- parm289 13y ago
  I agree that the technology is impressive -- after all, serving a billion users boggles the mind. I was getting at the faults of the platform, though. It seems that people are satisfied with Facebook's groups, chat, and events features, but not the news feed/status updates portion of the site. I was wondering aloud if a social network like Path, which seeks to encourage more honest sharing as opposed to a greater volume of sharing, offered some insight into why people are becoming dissatisfied with Facebook.

superuser2 13y ago

>all I need is his name. Not an email, not a phone number, just a name. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Nothing else comes close. This is the primary value proposition of Facebook for me, and why I continue to defend real-name policies. Not having to mess with a set of aliases is really quite convenient.

xentronium 13y ago
There is a lot of difference between being able to set/search by real name and being forced to do so.

wambotron 13y ago

I don't use Facebook personally. My wife and family use it quite heavily, and I've seen the interactions on it. Those relationships you think you're keeping alive by staying on Facebook are not worth keeping, generally. I graduated before social networks were a thing, but I distinctly remember having groups of friends at school who just didn't matter much outside of it. I'm 30 now and only keep in touch with two people from HS. They were my best friends at the time, and have largely stayed that way. When I am trying to find someone to hang with, I just call or text them. There's no back and forth online with everyone watching our conversation, liking or commenting on it. There is no judgment. My wife has almost everyone from high school added as friends on Facebook, but when it comes down to finding a real friend when she needs one, not a single one of them are there. Sure, they'll like a status or comment on something she writes, but none of it means anything. It saddens me that people feel like they NEED these relationships that would naturally disintegrate without online networks.

LordHumungous 13y ago
>It saddens me that people feel like they NEED these relationships that would naturally disintegrate without online networks. >When I am trying to find someone to hang with, I just call or text them. It saddens me that you need these relationships that would disintegrate without cellular communications technology.
- derleth 13y ago
  It saddens me that there are people with friendships that would disintegrate if they left their current job.
harshadura 13y ago
true story. agree with you.

dattaway 13y ago

I found facebook cannot beat google+ if focused on tech personalities. Facebook is great for my old world of interaction, but google+ appears to be better optimized for the scientific world. Both stimulate my mind, but I'm starting to spend more time on google+. Facebook development seems to have long been down the path to the cash cow.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]