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Teenagers Hate Facebook, but They're Not Logging Off

127 points by duggieawesome 13y ago

mosqutip 13y ago
Facebook has no real incentive to reach out to this age group. They won't earn much profit off of teens, and teens are younger than their original demographic (college-aged students). Also, I thought the line about "everyone says Facebook is dying" was quite telling. The stats say otherwise, but people will believe what they want (or what the media tells them).
- chatmasta 13y ago
  What about in five years, when the same teens are college students?
  - mosqutip 13y ago
    Well, you're implying there's a great deal of foresight and future investment going on :P I don't think the turnover from Facebook is currently high enough for "management", as it were, to care about the opinions of a few teenagers.
  - mk1x 13y ago
    Exactly, of course you should focus on your most profitable demographic when launching a new product. But once you have a sustainable business it's important to think about where your money will be coming from in the future. I doubt anyone will say that tobacco companies marketing to teenagers is a bad idea because they can't even buy the product yet. It ensures the long term profitability of the company.
    - Chronic24 13y ago
      If it is not a bad idea, then why don't I see them marketing cigarettes to teens and/or lobbing congress (to get X law passed).
      - hkolek 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Targeting_youth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Targeting_y... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Advertisement_control http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Advertiseme...
- alex_c 13y ago
  Of course, nobody goes on Facebook anymore. It's too crowded.
- liljimmytables 13y ago
  I don't think they have anything to fix. The teenagers in the article seemed to believe that your social status is crippled without Facebook. It might be a Machiavellian way to get eyeballs on advertisements, but by criminy it's working, and at the end of the day the end users aren't the customers.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  Of course they have incentive. They need to get users while they are young (i.e. before they are using a competitor). Teenagers take and post a lot of photos. If you get them to store them on Facebook you lock them in for life. Then you get value from them in 5-10 years. If Facebook only thinks short-term like you suggest they will die. And I think it's been proven Facebook has always thought long-term (e.g. prioritising UX and getting users over advertising for a long time after launch).
- alsocasey 13y ago
  The incentive is advertising revenue - teens are a very attractive ad market.
_lex 13y ago
I guess facebook has truly become a utility: It's a semi-monopolist users hate, but they find it too hard to cut the cord. Sounds like AT&T, Comcast etc.
- kmfrk 13y ago
  There's also the aspect of social pressure to use the platform. I remember how quickly people stopped using IM and moved their entire online presence to Facebook, including the announcement and discussion of planned events. As an IM user who never moved, it kinda sucked. :) I guess you could say the same about the move from ICQ to Windows/MSN Messenger, though.
- mehrzad 13y ago
  As a teen who did cut the cord (edit: of Facebook) out of annoyance of rampant reposting and other irritating stuff, I've been fine. I don't want to say I'm popular because I'm not, but if you have a standing within your friend circle you might be able to get them to use your thing. For me, that was my IRC channel.
  - AJ007 13y ago
    Ok, I'm an adult in my later 20s. I have a mixture of friends and business associates on Facebook. I have friends who post annoying stuff (blocked from feed) and friends who posted really inappropriate comments on my stuff (unfriended.) Is there some part to teen usage that discourages blocking a friend's feed or unfriending someone?
    - mehrzad 13y ago
      >Is there some part to teen usage that discourages blocking a friend's feed or unfriending someone? Possibly, but for me I guess that seemed like losing a valuable news source unless it got really bad, which had happened.. Looking back though, deleting was probably too extreme, and I still use Twitter /and/ Instagram.
mladenkovacevic 13y ago
If anyone can leave Facebook it's teens. Their social networks aren't developed/mature enough where they have to depend on other people's social network preferences. Most teens could literally leave on a whim and bring most of their friend with them. I still remember how quick the exodus from ICQ to MSN was (and nobody hated ICQ.. it just kinda happened). Also when a teen tells you that they hate something because there's too much drama.. it means they fuckin' love it. They CAN leave but they don't want to because Facebook is so effective at stoking their out-of-control hormones. With Instagram in the fold this is especially true. As for why everyone else is on Facebook? Well it's because everyone else is on Facebook. And how else are you going to see pictures from your out-of-the-country relatives or creep on your high-school crush. I think Facebook has reached enough critical mass to not have to worry about becoming irrelevant for quite some time. For the record I don't use Facebook much myself, other than to keep a reminder of when everyone's birthday is.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  >> "If anyone can leave Facebook it's teens. Their social networks aren't developed/mature enough where they have to depend on other people's social network preferences. Most teens could literally leave on a whim and bring most of their friend with them. I still remember how quick the exodus from ICQ to MSN was (and nobody hated ICQ.. it just kinda happened)." I think it's completely the opposite. It's not bringing your friends to a new network that's the hard part - it's bringing your data (mainly photos). Getting thousands of photos out of Facebook that are nicely tagged and commented on and into another network is impossible. Getting the photos out is possible but it's a lot of work. Switching IM networks is much easier than switching social networks which have so much data we value stored in them. Another problem is that teenagers are constantly meeting new people. The default is not to ask for a phone number but for an add on Facebook. If you aren't on it you aren't going to be able to keep in touch with and develop a friendship with this new person you've just met.
  - harryf 13y ago
    What's that saying? "It's not you that owns your possessions, it's your possessions that owns you" s/possessions/data/
stephengillie 13y ago
Mobile page looks down, but article is still up on main page: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/05/22/teenagers_hate_facebook_a_pew_study_says_that_94_percent_of_teens_use_facebook.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/05/22/teenagers_ha...
- examancer 13y ago
  Thanks for this link. Frustrated that posters think they are clever by linking to a mobile version of a story, to avoid ads or whatever. I couldn't find the non-mobile story on slate.com for some reason. I'd rather support the magazine and view their silly ads. Plus, the mobile version stretches paragraphs across the width of the entire browser window, which is unreadable using the window size I normally use, and I'd prefer not to have to resize my window to read an article.
  - chadgeidel 13y ago
    I'm going to give the poster the benefit of the doubt here. It's extraordinarily difficult to post a non-mobile link from a mobile device. I've had several instances where I've just given up trying to make a decent post on my iPad and just wait until I'm home to make the post.
    - stephengillie 13y ago
      I still struggle to think of the iPad as a "mobile" device. Tablets, like laptops, are too big for the pockets sewn into most clothing, so we need to either carry them everywhere, or stow them inside a bag, and carry that everywhere. Either way, bringing one requires more than just putting the device in a pocket.
      - chadgeidel 13y ago
        Sure - I agree with your sentiment. Try telling that to every web developer out there that is sure you want a special experience for your "crippled" machine (based on user agent obviously). The problem is many, many sites identify the thing you are using as one of 2 devices: a "Desktop Computer" and a "Mobile/Tablet device".
pdenya 13y ago
> “Honestly,” one 15-year-old girl told Pew, “I'm on it constantly but I hate it so much.” Maybe I'm too far from high school but I can't picture a situation where you would have to use FB "constantly" even though you "hate it". It's not really explained in the article either, there's just some superficial quotes about "Drama" and "Adult presence". I know adult's who say they hate facebook but maintain accounts but this equates to logging in for a couple minutes a couple times a week, liking some photos, maybe posting a few and then getting on with their day.
- mosqutip 13y ago
  It's probably more along the lines of "I hate that I have to use Facebook, because that's the cool thing to do, but everyone else uses it, so I'd be even more uncool if I didn't use it."
  - onlyup 13y ago
    No more like: If I didn't use Facebook I wouldn't know what everyone is talking about. See also: reality TV.
    - silvestrov 13y ago
      It's high school, it's so easy to become ostracized if you don't do the same as all the other kids in class.
  - odie88 13y ago
    My buddy had a status update today that I think sums up the feeling: "Going to Facebook has become the equivalent of opening the fridge & staring inside, even though you're not hungry."
xpose2000 13y ago
Next headline. . . "Teens hate parents, but Can't Leave". Give me a break.
- psbp 13y ago
  Um, I think the two might coincide.
- vacri 13y ago
  Sign of the times: yesterday in the paper I saw an article stating how the price of raising a kid to age 24 has risen in recent years. 24!? I actually laughed out loud, long, and lusty.
protomyth 13y ago
the link to the report: http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-And-Privacy.aspx http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-A...
etjossem 13y ago
Tangentially related: a Facebook app called Social Roulette (which purported to have a 1/6 chance of "helping" a user delete his/her account) was recently deactivated. http://fffff.at/when-you-dont-own-yourself/ http://fffff.at/when-you-dont-own-yourself/ Facebook certainly doesn't want to make leaving easy, but really, what else did we expect?
fossuser 13y ago
I'm always a little confused why hacker news seems to love to hate facebook. Pretty weak posts like this appear and everyone in the comments gets to brag about how they don't have a facebook or facebook is on the way out etc.
- JoeKM 13y ago
  Posts like yours always show up too. It's cyclic insanity on HN. Any Facebook thread devolves into: "I don't use Facebook." and "Why do people on HN hate Facebook?" Any PHP post devolves into: "I hate PHP." and "Why do HNers hate PHP?" Any Google post devolves into "I hate Google." and "Why do HNers hate Google?" Any Apple post.. On and on and on.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    I feel like someone should actually go through old threads that no one is updating anymore and just analyze frequency and timing.
    - hayksaakian 13y ago
      this is true on reddit, and other social sites. 1st day/time X is (+over the top adjectives) good / bad 2nd day/time X is actually bad / good 3rd day/time Why do people argue about whether is actually bad / good 4th date/time meta post about meta post repeat the following week/month/year/etc.
  - mosqutip 13y ago
    news.ycombinator.com/r/circlejerk?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- the_rosentotter 13y ago
  If it makes you feel any better this was on the front page of reddit too.
- 13y ago
dkulchenko 13y ago
Teen here. I'm firmly in the "hate it but can't stop using it" camp. I've tried G+, and for a brief period a few of my friends tried it as well, but we switched back when it failed to reach critical mass. That's all Facebook has going for it, really, is the people using it; I'm sure most of us would switch to a better network if given the chance, but we won't do it unless a significant majority of our friends come along with us. I don't like Facebook's approach to privacy, I absolutely hate how many permissions the Facebook app requires on my Android phone, but if I cut myself off of Facebook I'm losing out on a huge, huge percentage of social interaction with people who I know but am not particularly close to (which for most people is at least 80% of their friends list). Plus all the history I've amassed on Facebook since grade 7. For better or worse, teens are stuck on Facebook for the time being, and unlike the move from MySpace, I don't see switching off of it happening any time soon. Sure, there's Twitter, Instagram, etc. which are also heavily used by my age group, but only as secondary networks - Facebook remains the definition of online social interaction. EDIT: A few more thoughts: An important part of it mentioned elsewhere in the thread is the fact that Facebook basically acts as a glorified address book/communications hub - if I want Chris to come to my party or add him to a group conversation about something or share a picture with him, all I need is his name. Not an email, not a phone number, just a name. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Nothing else comes close.
- mosqutip 13y ago
  I think pretty much everyone who uses Facebook is, at least partially, in this mindset. The network is so large that people feel as though they're missing out if they leave (whether or not that is actually true).
  - marssaxman 13y ago
    I signed up again, after a 2+ year absence, because I discovered solid proof that I was missing out. People would be surprised not to see me at some event or other, and I would comment that I hadn't been invited, and this would create confusion - "well, let me check facebook, I'm sure I invited you" - "I'm not on Facebook" - "Ohh....." One of my friends had a special list of half a dozen people he still sent emailed event invitations to. It's extra work, though, and most people stopped bothering. I decided that my hate for Facebook inc. was not strong enough to make me willing to inconvenience my friends, so I signed back up.
adregan 13y ago
I really wish facebook could help me manage the outer reaches of my social sphere—those I contact infrequently, whom I care about, but am not in constant communication. Something that would prod me to send a message or something to an old friend I hadn't remembered to email in the past month or so.
- jacalata 13y ago
  facebook as CRM? I wonder if you could could build an app that did that...
nuttendorfer 13y ago
Seems to me like people are returning to instant messaging in the form of mobile messaging like WhatsApp and Kik. I wonder who will come out as the winner in this race.
enriclluelles 13y ago
Teens spend 30 seconds per minute hating facebook, right after the 30 seconds they spent loving it
neilk 13y ago
In 2007, danah boyd posited that teens don't get stuck to social networks. The theory was that they didn't need to maintain a giant extended network, because they saw their friends every day anyway. Besides they are shifting friend groups constantly, so rebuilding a profile is like spring cleaning. http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/01/01/ephemeral_profi.html http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/01/01/ephemer... She later argues that Facebook became the network of choice among college-bound kids. Maybe that sort of person does want to maintain an extended network (dkulchenko's example is about internships, for instance). So was is it true that teens are more able to switch, or not? Was it always wrong? Has it changed as Facebook ate the entire social networking universe? I would appreciate it if younger HN'ers weighed in.
crazygringo 13y ago
Ummm... "hate"?! Give me a break. Sensationalist headline. According to the article, one 15-year-old girl said she "hated" it. Otherwise, the majority complained about adults, negative interactions and oversharing -- none of which really has anything to do with Facebook, but rather the specific friends they've added, or the concept of a social network in general.
- supergauntlet 13y ago
  As one of the teens they're talking about - and one with friends who feel the same - we really don't like Facebook. For some reason, Facebook thinks its being useful by showing me random band fanpages that I never 'liked' in the first place. They're just adding more noise. The game requests were bad enough, but at least you could easily ban those from showing up. That doesn't even begin to get into the privacy issues and the other irritating shit. The only thing I really use facebook for is an address book with chat.
  - threeseed 13y ago
    The plural of anecdote is not data. Just because you and your circle of friends don't like Facebook doesn't mean much. Especially given that Facebook is a worldwide service and attitudes/behaviours of people differ from country to country. The facts are that Facebook's user count is growing around 20% year on year with extremely high engagement. So people aren't moving.
redidas 13y ago
I wonder if there's a market for several smaller "social" networks centered around a single focus? I was in college when facebook was expanding through universities. It was great, and the experience and content on facebook mirrored college life. When it expanded beyond college and added the news feed, I found myself using it less. College-me was not the person I was for my grandma. I didn't care about the political views of my parents' friend who I hadn't seen in 10 years. And it wasn't just me - Every now and then I log in to facebook to see what old classmates have been up to, and a lot of them have become inactive like myself. The article mentions teens liking instagram more - its has a purpose centered around photos, and that it. Writing this, I kind of miss old facebook and its limited uses.
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  I hate to be the one to say it but it sounds like you stopped using Facebook because of the people you added. If you want to keep it for college-you don't add your Grandma or parents. I've managed to keep my friends list quite small by not adding people I meet once and never again, and by only adding a few close family members (and then using the privacy controls when sharing to only explicitly share to them when I need to). I've ignored lots of requests for family members and strangers/acquaintances and the quality of my news feed is still as good as it ever was. Single focus social networks like Instagram are great but most people I know that use them just share that stuff out to Facebook anyway.
Zelphyr 13y ago
"Facebook is the living dead: the most popular, least relevant social network where teenagers and adults alike gather out of fear of missing out on things that don't even make them happy." Best description of Facebook I've ever read.
- chm 13y ago
  I agree. I have looked back only once since quitting Facebook three years ago. That was yesterday, when I met with old-time friends who suggested I should keep a page in order to get in more frequent contact with them.
mrwnmonm 13y ago
i don't like facebook, but i think it's the only service that got the social network right, just tell me what are the real competitors to facebook, don't say G+
- BrianEatWorld 13y ago
  Maybe the problem isn't Facebook, but the concept of the social network. This particularly demographic seems to prefer Tumblr, which has social aspects, but isn't a social network in the traditional sense of Facebook or LinkedIn
- zarify 13y ago
  I suspect that no answer will make you happy here, since a social network "getting it right" is where all the people are. You can't be getting it right if a significant number of people aren't there, and you can't be a competitor unless you're getting it right (the threshold for 'significant' seems to mainly depend on which network you personally use ;P). I'm one of those strange people who is perfectly happy on G+. I was 'friends' with a significantly larger number of people I knew in meatspace when I was on Facebook compared to G+, but they were people I had lost touch with for a reason (regardless if whether that was my fault or theirs). G+ has allowed me to follow and interact with a broader range of interesting people that I don't know personally or event tangentially, and so to me, that makes it a much more useful social network that Facebook ever was.
Servora 13y ago
There is a reason why Facebook remains the most popular social media website. It's ability to link to thousands of different websites and apps gives its an edge up against other social media websites.
calinet6 13y ago
Teens hate everything. Don't worry, they'll grow out of it.
LordHumungous 13y ago
People "hate" facebook the same way that an older generation "hated" TV. Yeah it's full of shallow, vapid content, but it's entertaining, and as long as it continues to be entertaining people will use it.
coin 13y ago
I absolutely hate these mobile "optimized" sites (Slate) that disable pinch zoom.
superuser2 13y ago
When people I know (teens) say they "hate" Facebook, they mean they hate the amount of time they waste on Facebook. That's my chief complaint. It's an easy thing to do while mentally idling, and costs no effort, attention, or money. And you're on a variable-ratio schedule for dopamine hits. I quickly developed a habit where I spend dead time mindlessly browsing Facebook instead of doing something productive. This is the only complaint I hear from my friends. Nobody in my age group has ever mentioned ad targeting, and people with nosy adult "friends" know how to use privacy settings to hide from them. The only reason I've ever been given in person for quitting Facebook is the time-sink. My point is that we don't want to "leave" to another social network. We want to stop using social networking. But we can't, because spam-free email by real name is powerful, locked in, and occasionally necessary.
ethnt 13y ago
I'm a senior in high school, and I've found that with college coming up, Facebook is becoming increasingly important to talk with the other kids that are in your college class. There's a group for my class, and I've already befriended a few of them. This sort of community isn't found on places like Twitter. A large part of my high school class is on Twitter, but I can't stand to follow them. Most of them are blithering idiots, spewing incomplete, barely legible sentences about some stupid thing they've done. I have tried to get people to use Path, but it hasn't caught. I see it as the replacement for Facebook. However, as other commenters have said, it would be impossible for Path to compete with Facebook because they don't have the sheer numbers of people that Facebook has. If I meet someone and want to continue communicating with them online, Facebook is the place to do that: I know that they're there.
- TillE 13y ago
  This is precisely the problem - all current "social networks" are terrible. Facebook will be killed, but it won't be done by incremental change. Social networking needs another revolution, something to make it relevant and exciting as Facebook was in its first few years.
mtdewcmu 13y ago
Robots have already become our masters, without firing a shot.

127 points by duggieawesome 13y ago

Facebook has no real incentive to reach out to this age group. They won't earn much profit off of teens, and teens are younger than their original demographic (college-aged students). Also, I thought the line about "everyone says Facebook is dying" was quite telling. The stats say otherwise, but people will believe what they want (or what the media tells them).

chatmasta 13y ago
What about in five years, when the same teens are college students?
- mosqutip 13y ago
  Well, you're implying there's a great deal of foresight and future investment going on :P I don't think the turnover from Facebook is currently high enough for "management", as it were, to care about the opinions of a few teenagers.
- mk1x 13y ago
  Exactly, of course you should focus on your most profitable demographic when launching a new product. But once you have a sustainable business it's important to think about where your money will be coming from in the future. I doubt anyone will say that tobacco companies marketing to teenagers is a bad idea because they can't even buy the product yet. It ensures the long term profitability of the company.
  - Chronic24 13y ago
    If it is not a bad idea, then why don't I see them marketing cigarettes to teens and/or lobbing congress (to get X law passed).
    - hkolek 13y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Targeting_youth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Targeting_y... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Advertisement_control http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_advertising#Advertiseme...
alex_c 13y ago
Of course, nobody goes on Facebook anymore. It's too crowded.
liljimmytables 13y ago
I don't think they have anything to fix. The teenagers in the article seemed to believe that your social status is crippled without Facebook. It might be a Machiavellian way to get eyeballs on advertisements, but by criminy it's working, and at the end of the day the end users aren't the customers.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
Of course they have incentive. They need to get users while they are young (i.e. before they are using a competitor). Teenagers take and post a lot of photos. If you get them to store them on Facebook you lock them in for life. Then you get value from them in 5-10 years. If Facebook only thinks short-term like you suggest they will die. And I think it's been proven Facebook has always thought long-term (e.g. prioritising UX and getting users over advertising for a long time after launch).
alsocasey 13y ago
The incentive is advertising revenue - teens are a very attractive ad market.

_lex 13y ago

I guess facebook has truly become a utility: It's a semi-monopolist users hate, but they find it too hard to cut the cord. Sounds like AT&T, Comcast etc.

kmfrk 13y ago
There's also the aspect of social pressure to use the platform. I remember how quickly people stopped using IM and moved their entire online presence to Facebook, including the announcement and discussion of planned events. As an IM user who never moved, it kinda sucked. :) I guess you could say the same about the move from ICQ to Windows/MSN Messenger, though.
mehrzad 13y ago
As a teen who did cut the cord (edit: of Facebook) out of annoyance of rampant reposting and other irritating stuff, I've been fine. I don't want to say I'm popular because I'm not, but if you have a standing within your friend circle you might be able to get them to use your thing. For me, that was my IRC channel.
- AJ007 13y ago
  Ok, I'm an adult in my later 20s. I have a mixture of friends and business associates on Facebook. I have friends who post annoying stuff (blocked from feed) and friends who posted really inappropriate comments on my stuff (unfriended.) Is there some part to teen usage that discourages blocking a friend's feed or unfriending someone?
  - mehrzad 13y ago
    >Is there some part to teen usage that discourages blocking a friend's feed or unfriending someone? Possibly, but for me I guess that seemed like losing a valuable news source unless it got really bad, which had happened.. Looking back though, deleting was probably too extreme, and I still use Twitter /and/ Instagram.

mladenkovacevic 13y ago

If anyone can leave Facebook it's teens. Their social networks aren't developed/mature enough where they have to depend on other people's social network preferences. Most teens could literally leave on a whim and bring most of their friend with them. I still remember how quick the exodus from ICQ to MSN was (and nobody hated ICQ.. it just kinda happened). Also when a teen tells you that they hate something because there's too much drama.. it means they fuckin' love it. They CAN leave but they don't want to because Facebook is so effective at stoking their out-of-control hormones. With Instagram in the fold this is especially true. As for why everyone else is on Facebook? Well it's because everyone else is on Facebook. And how else are you going to see pictures from your out-of-the-country relatives or creep on your high-school crush. I think Facebook has reached enough critical mass to not have to worry about becoming irrelevant for quite some time. For the record I don't use Facebook much myself, other than to keep a reminder of when everyone's birthday is.

k-mcgrady 13y ago
>> "If anyone can leave Facebook it's teens. Their social networks aren't developed/mature enough where they have to depend on other people's social network preferences. Most teens could literally leave on a whim and bring most of their friend with them. I still remember how quick the exodus from ICQ to MSN was (and nobody hated ICQ.. it just kinda happened)." I think it's completely the opposite. It's not bringing your friends to a new network that's the hard part - it's bringing your data (mainly photos). Getting thousands of photos out of Facebook that are nicely tagged and commented on and into another network is impossible. Getting the photos out is possible but it's a lot of work. Switching IM networks is much easier than switching social networks which have so much data we value stored in them. Another problem is that teenagers are constantly meeting new people. The default is not to ask for a phone number but for an add on Facebook. If you aren't on it you aren't going to be able to keep in touch with and develop a friendship with this new person you've just met.
- harryf 13y ago
  What's that saying? "It's not you that owns your possessions, it's your possessions that owns you" s/possessions/data/

stephengillie 13y ago

Mobile page looks down, but article is still up on main page: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/05/22/teenagers_hate_facebook_a_pew_study_says_that_94_percent_of_teens_use_facebook.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/05/22/teenagers_ha...

examancer 13y ago
Thanks for this link. Frustrated that posters think they are clever by linking to a mobile version of a story, to avoid ads or whatever. I couldn't find the non-mobile story on slate.com for some reason. I'd rather support the magazine and view their silly ads. Plus, the mobile version stretches paragraphs across the width of the entire browser window, which is unreadable using the window size I normally use, and I'd prefer not to have to resize my window to read an article.
- chadgeidel 13y ago
  I'm going to give the poster the benefit of the doubt here. It's extraordinarily difficult to post a non-mobile link from a mobile device. I've had several instances where I've just given up trying to make a decent post on my iPad and just wait until I'm home to make the post.
  - stephengillie 13y ago
    I still struggle to think of the iPad as a "mobile" device. Tablets, like laptops, are too big for the pockets sewn into most clothing, so we need to either carry them everywhere, or stow them inside a bag, and carry that everywhere. Either way, bringing one requires more than just putting the device in a pocket.
    - chadgeidel 13y ago
      Sure - I agree with your sentiment. Try telling that to every web developer out there that is sure you want a special experience for your "crippled" machine (based on user agent obviously). The problem is many, many sites identify the thing you are using as one of 2 devices: a "Desktop Computer" and a "Mobile/Tablet device".

pdenya 13y ago

> “Honestly,” one 15-year-old girl told Pew, “I'm on it constantly but I hate it so much.” Maybe I'm too far from high school but I can't picture a situation where you would have to use FB "constantly" even though you "hate it". It's not really explained in the article either, there's just some superficial quotes about "Drama" and "Adult presence". I know adult's who say they hate facebook but maintain accounts but this equates to logging in for a couple minutes a couple times a week, liking some photos, maybe posting a few and then getting on with their day.

mosqutip 13y ago
It's probably more along the lines of "I hate that I have to use Facebook, because that's the cool thing to do, but everyone else uses it, so I'd be even more uncool if I didn't use it."
- onlyup 13y ago
  No more like: If I didn't use Facebook I wouldn't know what everyone is talking about. See also: reality TV.
  - silvestrov 13y ago
    It's high school, it's so easy to become ostracized if you don't do the same as all the other kids in class.
- odie88 13y ago
  My buddy had a status update today that I think sums up the feeling: "Going to Facebook has become the equivalent of opening the fridge & staring inside, even though you're not hungry."

xpose2000 13y ago

Next headline. . . "Teens hate parents, but Can't Leave". Give me a break.

psbp 13y ago
Um, I think the two might coincide.
vacri 13y ago
Sign of the times: yesterday in the paper I saw an article stating how the price of raising a kid to age 24 has risen in recent years. 24!? I actually laughed out loud, long, and lusty.

protomyth 13y ago

the link to the report: http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-And-Privacy.aspx http://www.pewinternet.org/Reports/2013/Teens-Social-Media-A...

etjossem 13y ago

Tangentially related: a Facebook app called Social Roulette (which purported to have a 1/6 chance of "helping" a user delete his/her account) was recently deactivated. http://fffff.at/when-you-dont-own-yourself/ http://fffff.at/when-you-dont-own-yourself/ Facebook certainly doesn't want to make leaving easy, but really, what else did we expect?

fossuser 13y ago

I'm always a little confused why hacker news seems to love to hate facebook. Pretty weak posts like this appear and everyone in the comments gets to brag about how they don't have a facebook or facebook is on the way out etc.

JoeKM 13y ago
Posts like yours always show up too. It's cyclic insanity on HN. Any Facebook thread devolves into: "I don't use Facebook." and "Why do people on HN hate Facebook?" Any PHP post devolves into: "I hate PHP." and "Why do HNers hate PHP?" Any Google post devolves into "I hate Google." and "Why do HNers hate Google?" Any Apple post.. On and on and on.
- saraid216 13y ago
  I feel like someone should actually go through old threads that no one is updating anymore and just analyze frequency and timing.
  - hayksaakian 13y ago
    this is true on reddit, and other social sites. 1st day/time X is (+over the top adjectives) good / bad 2nd day/time X is actually bad / good 3rd day/time Why do people argue about whether is actually bad / good 4th date/time meta post about meta post repeat the following week/month/year/etc.
- mosqutip 13y ago
  news.ycombinator.com/r/circlejerk?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
the_rosentotter 13y ago
If it makes you feel any better this was on the front page of reddit too.
13y ago

dkulchenko 13y ago

Teen here. I'm firmly in the "hate it but can't stop using it" camp. I've tried G+, and for a brief period a few of my friends tried it as well, but we switched back when it failed to reach critical mass. That's all Facebook has going for it, really, is the people using it; I'm sure most of us would switch to a better network if given the chance, but we won't do it unless a significant majority of our friends come along with us. I don't like Facebook's approach to privacy, I absolutely hate how many permissions the Facebook app requires on my Android phone, but if I cut myself off of Facebook I'm losing out on a huge, huge percentage of social interaction with people who I know but am not particularly close to (which for most people is at least 80% of their friends list). Plus all the history I've amassed on Facebook since grade 7. For better or worse, teens are stuck on Facebook for the time being, and unlike the move from MySpace, I don't see switching off of it happening any time soon. Sure, there's Twitter, Instagram, etc. which are also heavily used by my age group, but only as secondary networks - Facebook remains the definition of online social interaction. EDIT: A few more thoughts: An important part of it mentioned elsewhere in the thread is the fact that Facebook basically acts as a glorified address book/communications hub - if I want Chris to come to my party or add him to a group conversation about something or share a picture with him, all I need is his name. Not an email, not a phone number, just a name. It's pretty incredible if you think about it. Nothing else comes close.

mosqutip 13y ago
I think pretty much everyone who uses Facebook is, at least partially, in this mindset. The network is so large that people feel as though they're missing out if they leave (whether or not that is actually true).
- marssaxman 13y ago
  I signed up again, after a 2+ year absence, because I discovered solid proof that I was missing out. People would be surprised not to see me at some event or other, and I would comment that I hadn't been invited, and this would create confusion - "well, let me check facebook, I'm sure I invited you" - "I'm not on Facebook" - "Ohh....." One of my friends had a special list of half a dozen people he still sent emailed event invitations to. It's extra work, though, and most people stopped bothering. I decided that my hate for Facebook inc. was not strong enough to make me willing to inconvenience my friends, so I signed back up.

adregan 13y ago

I really wish facebook could help me manage the outer reaches of my social sphere—those I contact infrequently, whom I care about, but am not in constant communication. Something that would prod me to send a message or something to an old friend I hadn't remembered to email in the past month or so.

jacalata 13y ago
facebook as CRM? I wonder if you could could build an app that did that...

nuttendorfer 13y ago

Seems to me like people are returning to instant messaging in the form of mobile messaging like WhatsApp and Kik. I wonder who will come out as the winner in this race.

enriclluelles 13y ago

Teens spend 30 seconds per minute hating facebook, right after the 30 seconds they spent loving it

neilk 13y ago

In 2007, danah boyd posited that teens don't get stuck to social networks. The theory was that they didn't need to maintain a giant extended network, because they saw their friends every day anyway. Besides they are shifting friend groups constantly, so rebuilding a profile is like spring cleaning. http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/01/01/ephemeral_profi.html http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/01/01/ephemer... She later argues that Facebook became the network of choice among college-bound kids. Maybe that sort of person does want to maintain an extended network (dkulchenko's example is about internships, for instance). So was is it true that teens are more able to switch, or not? Was it always wrong? Has it changed as Facebook ate the entire social networking universe? I would appreciate it if younger HN'ers weighed in.

crazygringo 13y ago

Ummm... "hate"?! Give me a break. Sensationalist headline. According to the article, one 15-year-old girl said she "hated" it. Otherwise, the majority complained about adults, negative interactions and oversharing -- none of which really has anything to do with Facebook, but rather the specific friends they've added, or the concept of a social network in general.

supergauntlet 13y ago
As one of the teens they're talking about - and one with friends who feel the same - we really don't like Facebook. For some reason, Facebook thinks its being useful by showing me random band fanpages that I never 'liked' in the first place. They're just adding more noise. The game requests were bad enough, but at least you could easily ban those from showing up. That doesn't even begin to get into the privacy issues and the other irritating shit. The only thing I really use facebook for is an address book with chat.
- threeseed 13y ago
  The plural of anecdote is not data. Just because you and your circle of friends don't like Facebook doesn't mean much. Especially given that Facebook is a worldwide service and attitudes/behaviours of people differ from country to country. The facts are that Facebook's user count is growing around 20% year on year with extremely high engagement. So people aren't moving.

redidas 13y ago

I wonder if there's a market for several smaller "social" networks centered around a single focus? I was in college when facebook was expanding through universities. It was great, and the experience and content on facebook mirrored college life. When it expanded beyond college and added the news feed, I found myself using it less. College-me was not the person I was for my grandma. I didn't care about the political views of my parents' friend who I hadn't seen in 10 years. And it wasn't just me - Every now and then I log in to facebook to see what old classmates have been up to, and a lot of them have become inactive like myself. The article mentions teens liking instagram more - its has a purpose centered around photos, and that it. Writing this, I kind of miss old facebook and its limited uses.

k-mcgrady 13y ago
I hate to be the one to say it but it sounds like you stopped using Facebook because of the people you added. If you want to keep it for college-you don't add your Grandma or parents. I've managed to keep my friends list quite small by not adding people I meet once and never again, and by only adding a few close family members (and then using the privacy controls when sharing to only explicitly share to them when I need to). I've ignored lots of requests for family members and strangers/acquaintances and the quality of my news feed is still as good as it ever was. Single focus social networks like Instagram are great but most people I know that use them just share that stuff out to Facebook anyway.

Zelphyr 13y ago

"Facebook is the living dead: the most popular, least relevant social network where teenagers and adults alike gather out of fear of missing out on things that don't even make them happy." Best description of Facebook I've ever read.

chm 13y ago
I agree. I have looked back only once since quitting Facebook three years ago. That was yesterday, when I met with old-time friends who suggested I should keep a page in order to get in more frequent contact with them.

mrwnmonm 13y ago

i don't like facebook, but i think it's the only service that got the social network right, just tell me what are the real competitors to facebook, don't say G+

BrianEatWorld 13y ago
Maybe the problem isn't Facebook, but the concept of the social network. This particularly demographic seems to prefer Tumblr, which has social aspects, but isn't a social network in the traditional sense of Facebook or LinkedIn
zarify 13y ago
I suspect that no answer will make you happy here, since a social network "getting it right" is where all the people are. You can't be getting it right if a significant number of people aren't there, and you can't be a competitor unless you're getting it right (the threshold for 'significant' seems to mainly depend on which network you personally use ;P). I'm one of those strange people who is perfectly happy on G+. I was 'friends' with a significantly larger number of people I knew in meatspace when I was on Facebook compared to G+, but they were people I had lost touch with for a reason (regardless if whether that was my fault or theirs). G+ has allowed me to follow and interact with a broader range of interesting people that I don't know personally or event tangentially, and so to me, that makes it a much more useful social network that Facebook ever was.

Servora 13y ago

There is a reason why Facebook remains the most popular social media website. It's ability to link to thousands of different websites and apps gives its an edge up against other social media websites.

calinet6 13y ago

Teens hate everything. Don't worry, they'll grow out of it.

LordHumungous 13y ago

People "hate" facebook the same way that an older generation "hated" TV. Yeah it's full of shallow, vapid content, but it's entertaining, and as long as it continues to be entertaining people will use it.

coin 13y ago

I absolutely hate these mobile "optimized" sites (Slate) that disable pinch zoom.

superuser2 13y ago

When people I know (teens) say they "hate" Facebook, they mean they hate the amount of time they waste on Facebook. That's my chief complaint. It's an easy thing to do while mentally idling, and costs no effort, attention, or money. And you're on a variable-ratio schedule for dopamine hits. I quickly developed a habit where I spend dead time mindlessly browsing Facebook instead of doing something productive. This is the only complaint I hear from my friends. Nobody in my age group has ever mentioned ad targeting, and people with nosy adult "friends" know how to use privacy settings to hide from them. The only reason I've ever been given in person for quitting Facebook is the time-sink. My point is that we don't want to "leave" to another social network. We want to stop using social networking. But we can't, because spam-free email by real name is powerful, locked in, and occasionally necessary.

ethnt 13y ago

I'm a senior in high school, and I've found that with college coming up, Facebook is becoming increasingly important to talk with the other kids that are in your college class. There's a group for my class, and I've already befriended a few of them. This sort of community isn't found on places like Twitter. A large part of my high school class is on Twitter, but I can't stand to follow them. Most of them are blithering idiots, spewing incomplete, barely legible sentences about some stupid thing they've done. I have tried to get people to use Path, but it hasn't caught. I see it as the replacement for Facebook. However, as other commenters have said, it would be impossible for Path to compete with Facebook because they don't have the sheer numbers of people that Facebook has. If I meet someone and want to continue communicating with them online, Facebook is the place to do that: I know that they're there.

TillE 13y ago
This is precisely the problem - all current "social networks" are terrible. Facebook will be killed, but it won't be done by incremental change. Social networking needs another revolution, something to make it relevant and exciting as Facebook was in its first few years.

mtdewcmu 13y ago

Robots have already become our masters, without firing a shot.