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Chevrolet Spark EV gets 119 MPGe and costs $17k after incentives
- spoiledtechie 13y agoWho wants to sit at a charging station for 20 minutes? I know we as a society have all turned to be more impatient over time. I don't see that working well. Maybe each charging station should have FREE wifi.
- llgrrl_ 13y agoSure... But then 20 minutes for a 100 miles even with not much things to do is good to me! The problem is less likely the distance but availability of charging stations.
- drharris 13y agoHonestly I don't mind that. On a longer trip, now that I have a family we wind up spending that long walking around, stretching, bathroom, etc. So the problem isn't really the wait; it's the fact you'd have to do it every 60-70 miles. But, considering a typical day trip is within 150 miles away, it might add an extra hour or so to your total day. Still not feasible to go cross-country yet, but I think we're getting there.
- mikeyouse 13y agoWith only 90 miles range, it's clearly designed to be a commuter car. Plug it in every night, drive it to work and on errands and you'll never have to sit in a charging station for 20 minutes.
- lsaferite 13y agoPersonally, this would be a perfect car for my daily commute. If public charging stations at major parking lots become commonplace, I could easily use it for 90% or more of my driving. If that became the case, I could easily justify using a rental car for long trips due to the overall cost savings.
- rocky1138 13y agoWe have them at malls and at work here in Kitchener, Ontario. It's a small-ish town (200k people) in Canada, so if you're in a larger city in the USA I don't see why you wouldn't, too.
- lsaferite 13y agoUnfortunately for a lot of people, we don't live in large cities. My city is 12.5k people (as of 2010) and the closest larger city is 125k (Gainesville, FL) with the next being 827k. With this car I could just barely drive to Gainesville and back on a single charge. So, it's almost perfect for my usage, and with public charge stations in the large cities near me it would be perfect. I know EVs are still in the early stages of being accepted into general use, but I'm very excited about the day when they pass the 50% mark.
- vinhboy 13y agoIt's not that bad if you consider that many of us sit for more than 20 minutes in traffic pretty often... I am not suggesting this situation is interchangeable, but just something to think about.
- ZanderEarth32 13y agoIt's taken me 20+ minutes quite a few times to fill up my car at a regular gas station. Try filling up at a southern california gas station on a Friday afternoon or on a Monday and depending on it's traffic, it can take quite a while.
- mahyarm 13y agoPeople won't sit at a charging station except in emergency situations. I think explicit gas stations will go the way of the dodo and parking lot charging will become the norm.
- SpikeDad 13y agoVery nice but it will never gain any sort of mainstream penetration unless EVs get to at least 200 mile range or perhaps charging technology that gives you 100 miles with at most 10 minute charge. There are very few folks that can say they only drive 100 miles at any one time. That's why my next car is going to a Prius Plug in (if they EVER get them in all 50 states - sheesh!). This gives me the all EV range for work (15 miles round trip) as well as the extended range for longer trips.
- codex 13y agoAccording to Nissan (which has sold 63K LEAFs worldwide so far) the average American drives 30 miles a day. One competitor to the Prius Plug-in is the Ford Fusion Energi, which sports much higher all-electric range, and the Chevy Volt, similar.
- freehunter 13y ago>There are very few folks that can say they only drive 100 miles at any one time. I thought the majority of EV market research said that most people only commute ~20 miles a day? Regular 100+ mile trips are fairly uncommon even in the US from the figures I've seen surrounding EVs.
- numo16 13y ago~90 miles per day round-trip to work, for me. It would be nice if I lived close enough to the office for an EV to be useful/practical.
- pkulak 13y ago> There are very few folks that can say they only drive 100 miles at any one time. You mean, people who can say they will never drive more than 100 miles? Sure. But I also can't say I will _never_ need to transport my desk, bed and couch, but that doesn't mean I drive a U-Haul to work every day. Most families in America have two cars. Keep the minivan and trade the sedan for an electric. You probably won't have to take the minivan out much. Or, if you want just one car, rent a giant Lexus SUV for trips. You'll still save money.
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- sp332 13y agoThe 21 kWh lithium-ion battery pack, made by A123 Systems, Wait a sec, I thought A123 went into Chapter 11 last year and renamed itself to B456 after the reorganization? http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/21/b456systems-confirmation-idUSL3N0E22FQ20130521 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/21/b456systems-confir... Edit: oh of course it's more complicated. A123 Systems LLC is a subsidiary of Wanxiang America Corporation, which bought most of the assets of A123 Systems Inc. out of bankruptcy. http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/AONEQ.PK/key-developments/article/2682498 http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/AONEQ.PK/key-developme...
- kristofferR 13y agoHehe, going from A123 to B456 is hilariously uncreative. It serves the purpose though, it's quite easy to see the connection.
- vecinu 13y agoThis is the same company that was building battery packs for Fisker, which is also "going bankrupt" [1]. [1] http://gigaom.com/2013/05/22/if-fisker-goes-for-20m-thats-an-over-99-percent-discount-from-its-peak-valuation/ http://gigaom.com/2013/05/22/if-fisker-goes-for-20m-thats-an...
- MiguelHudnandez 13y agoThey also made batteries for all sorts of high-power applications. * Killacycle (1/4 Mile in 8 seconds at 168MPH) http://www.gizmag.com/killacycle-electric-motorcycle-breaks-eight-second-quarter-mile-at-168mph/8357/ http://www.gizmag.com/killacycle-electric-motorcycle-breaks-... * 36V DeWalt LiFePo packs were 10 of these cells in series. http://ev.whitecape.org/insight/A123/ http://ev.whitecape.org/insight/A123/ Their cylindrical cells really are great performers and are in use all over the place. RC hobbyists would try pretty hard to get a hold of them. Unfortunately they never sold directly to consumers.
- codex 13y agoThis car seems to offer a DC fast charging connector which is incompatible with CHAdeMO, the current de-facto standard. Does anyone have the scoop on the dueling standards?
- coryrc 13y agoDon't forget the stupid new J1772 quick-charge! With a handle the size of Rhode Island! http://b.img-zemotoring.com/media/news/2012/10/j1772-dccombo-03.jpg http://b.img-zemotoring.com/media/news/2012/10/j1772-dccombo...
- mecameron 13y agoThe SAE combo fast fast charger is well behind the CADdeMO standard for adoption [1]. This is in part because it was approved much later and part because there was no vehicle in the US with the SAE combo. Though they are both are starting from very low bases, and some companies are building chargers with both plugs [2]. [1] http://insideevs.com/chademo-reports-2501-charging-stations-worldwid/ http://insideevs.com/chademo-reports-2501-charging-stations-... [2] http://insideevs.com/abb-first-to-bring-combined-charging-system-and-multistandard-to-market/ http://insideevs.com/abb-first-to-bring-combined-charging-sy...
- kunai 13y agoI've been wondering why there hasn't been more energy piled on to fuel cell vehicles. They're EVs, but have far longer ranges and zero emissions. So far, only Honda's FCX is the fuel-cell vehicle on sale in the United States; there are no others. It's very feasible; all you need to do is fill up with hydrogen, and considering hydrogen is so plentiful, it would be cheap, simple, and easy to generate infrastructure. Transport may be an issue due to the flammability of hydrogen, but there can and will be solutions to that. Why bother with outdated Li batteries, when there are more efficient solutions out there?
- codex 13y agoHydrogen, being the smallest atom, tends to leak. For this and energy density reasons, the hydrogen must be cryogenically stored, at low temperature and high pressure. I don't think that nut has been cracked. Creating pure hydrogen cheaply and without CO2 emissions from the reformation process is also an unsolved problem, I think.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- coryrc 13y agoBecause everything you said is wrong? Honda FCX has range of only 170 miles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FCX http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_FCX And you don't start with a full tank every morning, like you do with a battery electric. Telsa Model S? Over 200: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_S Hydrogen in pure form is not available and must be refined from other sources (typically natural gas). Fuel cells cost more than battery packs and require very expensive infrastructure to support them (since you can't charge at home, there have to be plenty of stations around).
- vecinu 13y agoHonda's website says the range is 240 miles [1] I would argue most people don't have 240 Volt electric lines running through their house in North America so they need to 'build' that infrastructure at home too. [1] http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/specifications.aspx http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/specifications.aspx
- codex 13y agoThe success of these EVs may actually impact Tesla profitability: if Spark and LEAF sales take off in California, it means less of a market for the ZEV credits that Tesla sells. However, I doubt any mainstream manufacturer will have surplus ZEV credits to sell, like Tesla does--they'd have to sell more than 13% of their cars as electrics. Currently Nissan's sells only 2% of its cars as electric, worldwide.
- NickM 13y agoTesla are already profitable without selling ZEV credits though, and they're are expecting that source of income to phase out over the next few quarters anyway. It might hurt them a tiny bit, but it shouldn't have much of an impact in the long term.
- codex 13y agoI don't think that's true. Tesla took in $68M from ZEV last quarter but only made $11M in profits--thus, 600% of their profits came from ZEV. This is a bit of a hand wave, though, because if you know you have ZEV income coming in the door, you might spend more on future R&D than if you didn't.
- NickM 13y agoYour $68M number on the ZEV credits is correct, but I checked the financial results and they actually made $96.3M in profit for Q1 2013.
- codex 13y agoNot according to Google: https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATSLA&fstype=ii&ei=L5qeUcjZBM_LiQKphAE https://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3ATSLA&fstype=ii... Oh, you're looking at gross profit, which excludes sales, G&A, R&D, etc. Yes, on that basis Tesla is profitable even without ZEVs.
- arthulia 13y agoNot everyone on HN lives in California.
- mikeyouse 13y agoFrom the very first paragraph: "It'll first be available in California and Oregon in mid-June as a 2014 model, and at some future point, GM will roll it out in other states and countries." Of course they only mention California incentives, since Californians will represent 91% of the potential market.
- at-fates-hands 13y agoAlso keep in mind the $7,500 in tax incentives will most likely differ from state to state. Some states may not even have incentives - but a sub $30K EV is still pretty sweet.
- salimmadjd 13y agoIn practicality you can lease this car for free. Using $4+/gallon of gas and with daily commute I did the math (with the leaf, but this should even be a tad better) and the savings (gas price - electric charging bills) we would be saving about $200/month. And this is using our old Honda (which gives decent gas mileage ). Which makes this car free compared to a decent petroleum-based car.
- TrevorJ 13y agoHmm, wonder what the catch is?
- Shivetya 13y agoWell for many it would require giving up a level of pretentiousness which would prevent from driving such a down level car. I think its a great deal. All I am waiting on is a convertible. I would be quite happy if VW would deliver on the e-bugster concept. http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/motors/4457777/Volkswagen-E-Bugster-first-drive.html http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/motors/4457777/Volkswag... I am more than willing to be eco friendly, I just want to keep the fun quotient high.
- plorkyeran 13y ago<100 mile range and needing to be able to plug it in at home are the obvious drawbacks. It certainly sounds like a great deal for anyone that these aren't problems for.
- jonknee 13y agoIt depends on a very hefty government subsidy (> 36% in CA) that will not be around forever.
- salimmadjd 13y agoThe other catch is that you'll be depending on an even more of an energy monopoly. If you have enough of your own solar cells that can charge this car, then the catch goes down. Otherwise if the demand on electricity goes high and PG&E or its equivalent deems it necessary to increase your electric bill then you have no where to go.
- tocomment 13y agoI wish it could look a little more normal.