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The dig at "big data" was interesting. The article contends that their are "subtler, wiser ways of thinking in fields that it may not be suited (such as politic

by conover 13y ago

The dig at "big data" was interesting. The article contends that their are "subtler, wiser ways of thinking in fields that it may not be suited (such as politics)". I wonder what "subtler and wiser" ways the article is referring to? Later on, it admits that Zuckerberg et. al. had to resort to lobbying to try get things done. So is lobbying the "subtler, wiser" way of thinking? If it is, I'm personally ready for something new. Edit: My comment should not to be construed as support for fwd.us, it's policies or "big data" applied to politics. It just seems like that unqualified "subtler, wiser" is meant to imply that people should stay at home and let the _real_ political players play.

eruditely 13y ago
I really don't see how it says to "let the real political players play". They probably just think they have better 'method' than big data. I have my own viewpoints about big data, but they could stop with the mystic nonsense and just actually specify what they're talking about, but that does not mean they implied that "the real political players play".
- conover 13y ago
  "Interestingly, Mr Packer takes all this to be a sign that the tech industry may be showing signs of maturity. Rather than airily rise above the fray, or, worse, try to produce a technological fix to a political problem, it, or at least those elements represented by FWD.us and the grizzly political hacks it has hired, has chosen to dive deep into the political mud." In this section, I take "maturity" to mean that Zuckerburg et. al. have had to emulate what others have done: "diving deep into the political mud". A technological or any other type fix seemingly cannot work (according to this commentator). Only big money (elements represented by FWD.us) and "political hacks" can get the job done. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.
dcalacci 13y ago
> So is lobbying the "subtler, wiser" way of thinking? If it is, I'm personally ready for something new. I'd argue that the 'maturity' rhetoric expresses something different. The point behind Morozov's (and others') criticism is that difficult social/policy issues cannot be solved through individual citizen/consumer action alone. I think the main criticism is that silicon valley often acts from within isolation. 'Disrupting' consumer behavior is not enough to drive social or political change in many cases. The arrogance that people speak of when they refer to silicon valley is one of ambition. People in the valley envision replacing traditional law-making with crowdsourcing, but forging public policy is far too difficult for a solution that simple. To those who make these criticisms, the stereotypical startup founder claiming that their product will cause meaningful social and/or political change is naive. They also make the claim that such a 'solutionist' approach will often worsen, not better, the problems that such a product addresses. The fact that a handful of technology leaders are attempting to work with the existing political infrastructure reflects a newfound maturity in the culture - one of collaboration and modesty. Where previous technologists looked at the existing infrastructure, muttered "we can do better", and failed, these people are simply trying to say "we can help".

by conover 13y ago

eruditely 13y ago

I really don't see how it says to "let the real political players play". They probably just think they have better 'method' than big data. I have my own viewpoints about big data, but they could stop with the mystic nonsense and just actually specify what they're talking about, but that does not mean they implied that "the real political players play".

conover 13y ago
"Interestingly, Mr Packer takes all this to be a sign that the tech industry may be showing signs of maturity. Rather than airily rise above the fray, or, worse, try to produce a technological fix to a political problem, it, or at least those elements represented by FWD.us and the grizzly political hacks it has hired, has chosen to dive deep into the political mud." In this section, I take "maturity" to mean that Zuckerburg et. al. have had to emulate what others have done: "diving deep into the political mud". A technological or any other type fix seemingly cannot work (according to this commentator). Only big money (elements represented by FWD.us) and "political hacks" can get the job done. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

dcalacci 13y ago

> So is lobbying the "subtler, wiser" way of thinking? If it is, I'm personally ready for something new. I'd argue that the 'maturity' rhetoric expresses something different. The point behind Morozov's (and others') criticism is that difficult social/policy issues cannot be solved through individual citizen/consumer action alone. I think the main criticism is that silicon valley often acts from within isolation. 'Disrupting' consumer behavior is not enough to drive social or political change in many cases. The arrogance that people speak of when they refer to silicon valley is one of ambition. People in the valley envision replacing traditional law-making with crowdsourcing, but forging public policy is far too difficult for a solution that simple. To those who make these criticisms, the stereotypical startup founder claiming that their product will cause meaningful social and/or political change is naive. They also make the claim that such a 'solutionist' approach will often worsen, not better, the problems that such a product addresses. The fact that a handful of technology leaders are attempting to work with the existing political infrastructure reflects a newfound maturity in the culture - one of collaboration and modesty. Where previous technologists looked at the existing infrastructure, muttered "we can do better", and failed, these people are simply trying to say "we can help".