6 ms·

He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The cons

He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The console is weak, the way files are laid out on the system irritates me, and their politics as a whole stinks. To each their own, but I concur with the GP.

quoderat 18y ago
Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.
- jodrellblank 18y ago
  Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled
  - smanek 18y ago
    "sudo ifdown eth0"
  - quoderat 18y ago
    Problem is, it doesn't work right: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]
      - deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
    - jodrellblank 18y ago
      And if I picked a Linux distro from 8 years ago I'd find some bugs in it too. Use the current version of Windows, it has fewer bugs.
      - quoderat 18y ago
        Sorry, I have to use what the company provides, not what I wish the company provided. That's the real world.
        jodrellblank 18y ago
        By that logic, if your company provided Windows 3.1 you would go around saying Windows has no multiuser support. Windows has an interface for doing what you asked. It had a bug / didn't work as described so they fixed it. Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure. But saying Windows doesn't support it is deliberately misrepresenting Windows to make it look bad. It's spreading FUD, and it's wrong. Plus, why did you bring WMI into this? You can't seem to do it with WMI: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx "If you are not using DHCP, you cannot use WMI to disable a network connection". Were you just bringing WMI into it because it sounds scary and complicated and so would help shore up your FUD, or is there a way and this MSDN article is wrong? (But you can do it by scripting the shell: http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 or by using Devcon to disable a hardware device from the command line: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us )
        deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
        quoderat 18y ago
        It's not FUD, and it's not wrong. It took me hours of research to do a simple down/up in Windows -- something that took me 30 seconds of research in Linux. And you yourself illustrate all the odd and very long things you have to do in Windows to do a simple down/up of the NIC, and to get it to work correctly. While in Linux, I can just do "sudo ifdown eth0" All in all, I prefer the 30 second way, versus the five hour way. By your very use of evidence, you proved my point. Cool. But didn't know about DevCon. Thanks.
  - nailer 18y ago
    Is there a powershell cmdlet to replace netsh? I'm a *nix guy but actually think object pipelining is way better than scraping text.
- briansmith 18y ago
  In Windows it is very rare to ever have to do ifdown/ifup.
  - krschultz 18y ago
    In linux its very rare (never) to have to dig up a floppy drive whenever you need to install onto a motherboard using AHCI.
mitko 18y ago
Yes, I agree that the console is not the main thing that one gets Windows or Mac. My rule of thumb is: less command line use-> better. Ubuntu is pretty nice and I like their efforts to provide good human interface. On the other hand there whole bunch of software that runs only on Unix machines and not on Windows. I am irritated every time I need to ssh to a linux machine just to do something simple for a class or project, but I stick to Windows for my personal needs, because I find its interface best for me.
actf 18y ago
This was true back in the days of cmd.exe, but with powershell the state of the windows command line is a different story. Powershell is a huge step forward for Microsoft. I've been using it for about a year now and so far I'm very impressed. I'd even go so far as to say I prefer it to bash for certain tasks. The concept of passing objects around is, while strange at first, surprisingly intuitive and powerful. If you're currently using a combination of windows + cygwin (as I was) I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of "Powershell in Action" and giving powershell a shot for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if you don't switch to powershell. I'll concede that overall powershell still has some significant obstacles to overcome before it's better than the linux command line, but just like when windows xp came out and people stopped making legitimate complaints about window's stability - with powershell released now, I think we'll start to see the same trend with people complaining about the windows command line - these complaints will no longer be legitimate.

quoderat 18y ago

Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.

jodrellblank 18y ago
Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled
- smanek 18y ago
  "sudo ifdown eth0"
- quoderat 18y ago
  Problem is, it doesn't work right: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]
  - jodrellblank 18y ago
    And if I picked a Linux distro from 8 years ago I'd find some bugs in it too. Use the current version of Windows, it has fewer bugs.
    - quoderat 18y ago
      Sorry, I have to use what the company provides, not what I wish the company provided. That's the real world.
      - jodrellblank 18y ago
        By that logic, if your company provided Windows 3.1 you would go around saying Windows has no multiuser support. Windows has an interface for doing what you asked. It had a bug / didn't work as described so they fixed it. Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure. But saying Windows doesn't support it is deliberately misrepresenting Windows to make it look bad. It's spreading FUD, and it's wrong. Plus, why did you bring WMI into this? You can't seem to do it with WMI: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx "If you are not using DHCP, you cannot use WMI to disable a network connection". Were you just bringing WMI into it because it sounds scary and complicated and so would help shore up your FUD, or is there a way and this MSDN article is wrong? (But you can do it by scripting the shell: http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 or by using Devcon to disable a hardware device from the command line: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us )
        deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
        quoderat 18y ago
        It's not FUD, and it's not wrong. It took me hours of research to do a simple down/up in Windows -- something that took me 30 seconds of research in Linux. And you yourself illustrate all the odd and very long things you have to do in Windows to do a simple down/up of the NIC, and to get it to work correctly. While in Linux, I can just do "sudo ifdown eth0" All in all, I prefer the 30 second way, versus the five hour way. By your very use of evidence, you proved my point. Cool. But didn't know about DevCon. Thanks.
- nailer 18y ago
  Is there a powershell cmdlet to replace netsh? I'm a *nix guy but actually think object pipelining is way better than scraping text.
briansmith 18y ago
In Windows it is very rare to ever have to do ifdown/ifup.
- krschultz 18y ago
  In linux its very rare (never) to have to dig up a floppy drive whenever you need to install onto a motherboard using AHCI.

mitko 18y ago

Yes, I agree that the console is not the main thing that one gets Windows or Mac. My rule of thumb is: less command line use-> better. Ubuntu is pretty nice and I like their efforts to provide good human interface. On the other hand there whole bunch of software that runs only on Unix machines and not on Windows. I am irritated every time I need to ssh to a linux machine just to do something simple for a class or project, but I stick to Windows for my personal needs, because I find its interface best for me.

actf 18y ago

This was true back in the days of cmd.exe, but with powershell the state of the windows command line is a different story. Powershell is a huge step forward for Microsoft. I've been using it for about a year now and so far I'm very impressed. I'd even go so far as to say I prefer it to bash for certain tasks. The concept of passing objects around is, while strange at first, surprisingly intuitive and powerful. If you're currently using a combination of windows + cygwin (as I was) I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of "Powershell in Action" and giving powershell a shot for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if you don't switch to powershell. I'll concede that overall powershell still has some significant obstacles to overcome before it's better than the linux command line, but just like when windows xp came out and people stopped making legitimate complaints about window's stability - with powershell released now, I think we'll start to see the same trend with people complaining about the windows command line - these complaints will no longer be legitimate.