8 ms·

I've never met someone who used any version of windows because they thought it was a reasonable way to interface with your computer, always for application comp

I've never met someone who used any version of windows because they thought it was a reasonable way to interface with your computer, always for application compatibility.

mitko 18y ago
I do. On my work computer the OS is Ubuntu, and on my home computer it is windows 7. Personally, I like the Windows interface.
- jherdman 18y ago
  He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The console is weak, the way files are laid out on the system irritates me, and their politics as a whole stinks. To each their own, but I concur with the GP.
  - quoderat 18y ago
    Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.
    - jodrellblank 18y ago
      Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled
      - smanek 18y ago
        "sudo ifdown eth0"
      - quoderat 18y ago
        Problem is, it doesn't work right: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265
        deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
        jodrellblank 18y ago
        And if I picked a Linux distro from 8 years ago I'd find some bugs in it too. Use the current version of Windows, it has fewer bugs.
        quoderat 18y ago
        Sorry, I have to use what the company provides, not what I wish the company provided. That's the real world.
        jodrellblank 18y ago
        By that logic, if your company provided Windows 3.1 you would go around saying Windows has no multiuser support. Windows has an interface for doing what you asked. It had a bug / didn't work as described so they fixed it. Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure. But saying Windows doesn't support it is deliberately misrepresenting Windows to make it look bad. It's spreading FUD, and it's wrong. Plus, why did you bring WMI into this? You can't seem to do it with WMI: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx "If you are not using DHCP, you cannot use WMI to disable a network connection". Were you just bringing WMI into it because it sounds scary and complicated and so would help shore up your FUD, or is there a way and this MSDN article is wrong? (But you can do it by scripting the shell: http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 or by using Devcon to disable a hardware device from the command line: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us )
      - nailer 18y ago
        Is there a powershell cmdlet to replace netsh? I'm a *nix guy but actually think object pipelining is way better than scraping text.
    - briansmith 18y ago
      In Windows it is very rare to ever have to do ifdown/ifup.
      - krschultz 18y ago
        In linux its very rare (never) to have to dig up a floppy drive whenever you need to install onto a motherboard using AHCI.
  - mitko 18y ago
    Yes, I agree that the console is not the main thing that one gets Windows or Mac. My rule of thumb is: less command line use-> better. Ubuntu is pretty nice and I like their efforts to provide good human interface. On the other hand there whole bunch of software that runs only on Unix machines and not on Windows. I am irritated every time I need to ssh to a linux machine just to do something simple for a class or project, but I stick to Windows for my personal needs, because I find its interface best for me.
  - actf 18y ago
    This was true back in the days of cmd.exe, but with powershell the state of the windows command line is a different story. Powershell is a huge step forward for Microsoft. I've been using it for about a year now and so far I'm very impressed. I'd even go so far as to say I prefer it to bash for certain tasks. The concept of passing objects around is, while strange at first, surprisingly intuitive and powerful. If you're currently using a combination of windows + cygwin (as I was) I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of "Powershell in Action" and giving powershell a shot for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if you don't switch to powershell. I'll concede that overall powershell still has some significant obstacles to overcome before it's better than the linux command line, but just like when windows xp came out and people stopped making legitimate complaints about window's stability - with powershell released now, I think we'll start to see the same trend with people complaining about the windows command line - these complaints will no longer be legitimate.
Jem 18y ago
I've been using it for about 10 years. Application compatibility is only a small part of why I stick with it. (I have tried multiple Linux distributions and OS X)
- mattyb 18y ago
  What are your other reasons?
  - Jem 18y ago
    Many and varied, but most importantly because I actually like Windows.
    - jherdman 18y ago
      Until today, I thought people like you were the unicorns of the geek world.
      - whacked_new 18y ago
        I use W/M/L on a daily basis. User of all, fanboy of none. No platform strikes a perfect balance for me. Windows accelerators are pretty good; far and beyond OS X, in my non-expert experience with the Mac. I can't say much for Linux because it's pretty much all terminal :-) Oh, the Mac mouse acceleration annoys me to no end. More edits. Actually I can't say that about Linux. It's terminal because it complements my useless cmd.exe in a VM. The Linux accelerators are about the same I guess.
      - Jem 18y ago
        That's probably one of the nicest things I've been called after admitting to liking Windows ;)
sho 18y ago
I wouldn't even say that. In most cases I'd say it's all about familiarity - both OS and application. Perhaps a project manager needs MS Project, or an architect needs AutoCad or something but for the "teenage girl" demographic you would be hard pressed to find any particular application they absolutely needed that doesn't exist on Linux, or there isn't a ready counterpart (eg Adium instead of MSN Messenger). They're just not used to it and dislike anything unfamiliar, since computers are basically mystic black boxes anyway. I think for many typical users it's simply a matter of preferring something they (mostly) know how to use.
- netsp 18y ago
  It's important to use would instead of could when thinking about these things. If the teenage girl doesn't know about Adium, it's the same no Adium. It's now more likely that she would Google "MSN for linux" and be successful. That's relatively new. It still leaves her less likely to having the messenger. That likelihood is not 0. Not even on windows. There are plenty of 14 year old girls out there that don't have MSN Messenger on Windows even though they 'couldn't' overcome some sort of hurdle. http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&#3...
halo 18y ago
I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at any given opportunity.
- mseebach 18y ago
  > I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.
  - access_denied 18y ago
    I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.
    - derwiki 18y ago
      I installed Ubuntu on a laptop I gave to my father a few weeks ago, and he's been using it exclusively. I don't think he can tell the difference between Ubuntu and Windows.
      - deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
      - dinkumthinkum 18y ago
        You know, I'm not one of those weirdos that think desktop applications are going away. But I'd say most people who keep up with software development believe that's the case. <rant>I think that would be pretty bad if the best we'll ever be able to do is Javascript.</rant> Anyway, IF most apps people are using are Web based and compatible with Firefox or a Flash version supported in Ubuntu ... it seems less and less like there would be much point in paying for, using, and dealing with Windows. I think most seniors can just about already switch fine to Ubuntu.
whacked_new 18y ago
For hybrid tablet users, Windows is the only way to go, and in that respect, I think the MS team did a pretty damn good job with the bundled functions in Vista. And those who haven't used tablets before don't know what you're missing out on :-)
- krschultz 18y ago
  Why do you say that? We're all using Lenovo X61's with Ubuntu and its full featured.
  - whacked_new 18y ago
    I just finished Jaunty; the out-of-the-box support was remarkable, but it still falls short of Vista. Vista is really a "tablet-aware" OS; when you pick up the pen, all the penabled functions come alive. When you hold down the secondary button, an indicator appears. And you have the screen rotation buttons, on screen keyboard, excellent handwriting recognition, and the journal app, which, despite it's lame (non-svg) format, does a decent job. Jaunty was awesome up until the point of dual head. My video card is partly to blame, because on xorg I can't set two screens of different resolution, so my second monitor looks terrible, not to mention the logout required. In terms of tablet functions, you have to readjust the coordinates after you add the second monitor. On Vista, everything works with close to no intervention, and plugging in another monitor, everything still works as you expect. That's not to say Jaunty wasn't hella impressive; it was. But I'm talking about built-in features, and in this respect Vista is still ahead. Anyhow, back to ubuntu on the VM.

I've never met someone who used any version of windows because they thought it was a reasonable way to interface with your computer, always for application compatibility.

mitko 18y ago

I do. On my work computer the OS is Ubuntu, and on my home computer it is windows 7. Personally, I like the Windows interface.

jherdman 18y ago
He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The console is weak, the way files are laid out on the system irritates me, and their politics as a whole stinks. To each their own, but I concur with the GP.
- quoderat 18y ago
  Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.
  - jodrellblank 18y ago
    Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled
    - smanek 18y ago
      "sudo ifdown eth0"
    - quoderat 18y ago
      Problem is, it doesn't work right: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265
      - deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
      - jodrellblank 18y ago
        And if I picked a Linux distro from 8 years ago I'd find some bugs in it too. Use the current version of Windows, it has fewer bugs.
        quoderat 18y ago
        Sorry, I have to use what the company provides, not what I wish the company provided. That's the real world.
        jodrellblank 18y ago
        By that logic, if your company provided Windows 3.1 you would go around saying Windows has no multiuser support. Windows has an interface for doing what you asked. It had a bug / didn't work as described so they fixed it. Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure. But saying Windows doesn't support it is deliberately misrepresenting Windows to make it look bad. It's spreading FUD, and it's wrong. Plus, why did you bring WMI into this? You can't seem to do it with WMI: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx "If you are not using DHCP, you cannot use WMI to disable a network connection". Were you just bringing WMI into it because it sounds scary and complicated and so would help shore up your FUD, or is there a way and this MSDN article is wrong? (But you can do it by scripting the shell: http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 or by using Devcon to disable a hardware device from the command line: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us )
    - nailer 18y ago
      Is there a powershell cmdlet to replace netsh? I'm a *nix guy but actually think object pipelining is way better than scraping text.
  - briansmith 18y ago
    In Windows it is very rare to ever have to do ifdown/ifup.
    - krschultz 18y ago
      In linux its very rare (never) to have to dig up a floppy drive whenever you need to install onto a motherboard using AHCI.
- mitko 18y ago
  Yes, I agree that the console is not the main thing that one gets Windows or Mac. My rule of thumb is: less command line use-> better. Ubuntu is pretty nice and I like their efforts to provide good human interface. On the other hand there whole bunch of software that runs only on Unix machines and not on Windows. I am irritated every time I need to ssh to a linux machine just to do something simple for a class or project, but I stick to Windows for my personal needs, because I find its interface best for me.
- actf 18y ago
  This was true back in the days of cmd.exe, but with powershell the state of the windows command line is a different story. Powershell is a huge step forward for Microsoft. I've been using it for about a year now and so far I'm very impressed. I'd even go so far as to say I prefer it to bash for certain tasks. The concept of passing objects around is, while strange at first, surprisingly intuitive and powerful. If you're currently using a combination of windows + cygwin (as I was) I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of "Powershell in Action" and giving powershell a shot for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if you don't switch to powershell. I'll concede that overall powershell still has some significant obstacles to overcome before it's better than the linux command line, but just like when windows xp came out and people stopped making legitimate complaints about window's stability - with powershell released now, I think we'll start to see the same trend with people complaining about the windows command line - these complaints will no longer be legitimate.

Jem 18y ago

I've been using it for about 10 years. Application compatibility is only a small part of why I stick with it. (I have tried multiple Linux distributions and OS X)

mattyb 18y ago
What are your other reasons?
- Jem 18y ago
  Many and varied, but most importantly because I actually like Windows.
  - jherdman 18y ago
    Until today, I thought people like you were the unicorns of the geek world.
    - whacked_new 18y ago
      I use W/M/L on a daily basis. User of all, fanboy of none. No platform strikes a perfect balance for me. Windows accelerators are pretty good; far and beyond OS X, in my non-expert experience with the Mac. I can't say much for Linux because it's pretty much all terminal :-) Oh, the Mac mouse acceleration annoys me to no end. More edits. Actually I can't say that about Linux. It's terminal because it complements my useless cmd.exe in a VM. The Linux accelerators are about the same I guess.
    - Jem 18y ago
      That's probably one of the nicest things I've been called after admitting to liking Windows ;)

sho 18y ago

I wouldn't even say that. In most cases I'd say it's all about familiarity - both OS and application. Perhaps a project manager needs MS Project, or an architect needs AutoCad or something but for the "teenage girl" demographic you would be hard pressed to find any particular application they absolutely needed that doesn't exist on Linux, or there isn't a ready counterpart (eg Adium instead of MSN Messenger). They're just not used to it and dislike anything unfamiliar, since computers are basically mystic black boxes anyway. I think for many typical users it's simply a matter of preferring something they (mostly) know how to use.

netsp 18y ago
It's important to use would instead of could when thinking about these things. If the teenage girl doesn't know about Adium, it's the same no Adium. It's now more likely that she would Google "MSN for linux" and be successful. That's relatively new. It still leaves her less likely to having the messenger. That likelihood is not 0. Not even on windows. There are plenty of 14 year old girls out there that don't have MSN Messenger on Windows even though they 'couldn't' overcome some sort of hurdle. http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&#3...

halo 18y ago

I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at any given opportunity.

mseebach 18y ago
> I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.
- access_denied 18y ago
  I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.
  - derwiki 18y ago
    I installed Ubuntu on a laptop I gave to my father a few weeks ago, and he's been using it exclusively. I don't think he can tell the difference between Ubuntu and Windows.
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]
    - dinkumthinkum 18y ago
      You know, I'm not one of those weirdos that think desktop applications are going away. But I'd say most people who keep up with software development believe that's the case. <rant>I think that would be pretty bad if the best we'll ever be able to do is Javascript.</rant> Anyway, IF most apps people are using are Web based and compatible with Firefox or a Flash version supported in Ubuntu ... it seems less and less like there would be much point in paying for, using, and dealing with Windows. I think most seniors can just about already switch fine to Ubuntu.

whacked_new 18y ago

For hybrid tablet users, Windows is the only way to go, and in that respect, I think the MS team did a pretty damn good job with the bundled functions in Vista. And those who haven't used tablets before don't know what you're missing out on :-)

krschultz 18y ago
Why do you say that? We're all using Lenovo X61's with Ubuntu and its full featured.
- whacked_new 18y ago
  I just finished Jaunty; the out-of-the-box support was remarkable, but it still falls short of Vista. Vista is really a "tablet-aware" OS; when you pick up the pen, all the penabled functions come alive. When you hold down the secondary button, an indicator appears. And you have the screen rotation buttons, on screen keyboard, excellent handwriting recognition, and the journal app, which, despite it's lame (non-svg) format, does a decent job. Jaunty was awesome up until the point of dual head. My video card is partly to blame, because on xorg I can't set two screens of different resolution, so my second monitor looks terrible, not to mention the logout required. In terms of tablet functions, you have to readjust the coordinates after you add the second monitor. On Vista, everything works with close to no intervention, and plugging in another monitor, everything still works as you expect. That's not to say Jaunty wasn't hella impressive; it was. But I'm talking about built-in features, and in this respect Vista is still ahead. Anyhow, back to ubuntu on the VM.