5 ms·

The parent's comment was that it is essentially infeasible to have a single div follow the cursor due to performance issues with the DOM. The fiddle includes 16

by just2n 13y ago

The parent's comment was that it is essentially infeasible to have a single div follow the cursor due to performance issues with the DOM. The fiddle includes 160 divs and opacity to demonstrate that that claim is false. There's an awful lot of red herring going on in your post. It sounds like you have some problems with the web, but they most certainly aren't relevant to this discussion.

roel_v 13y ago
Oh I have no problems with the web, it has been providing me with a good living for well over a decade. Maybe that's my problem - that I remember the times when things that are being described now as 'great' or 'fast' were solved already, and my frustration is that instead of moving forward, we now have to repeat the last decade except with js/css before we can really start to innovate again. Unreal engine in the browser? Seriously? Because of what - because it's easier to update people's clients when they download it again every time they visit your website? We had web launchers and auto-updating that solved everything the web brings as an advantage over desktop applications (in the use cases that require fast graphics, i.e. not CRUD line of business applications) years ago. The elephant in the room here is that people want to push web applications because it's easier to make money from them, and you can make more of it, over a longer time. Look, I do it too, I know that the web beats the pants off client-only software from a business point of view. But let's call a spade a spade and not tip toe around it with bullshit pseudo-arguments like 'ease of deployability' and 'social sharing' and 'portability' and 'platform-agnosticity'.
- griffordson 13y ago
  If an app that had no sustainable future as a native app becomes possible as a web app, don't users also benefit? The fact is that many people are willing to pay for a service they continue to get value from month after month. And the recurring revenue also usually comes with recurring support because companies have to keep winning customer loyalty in a way they never have to with a one time sale. I think it is a net win for both customers and the companies selling the services. And developers win because there are more viable businesses which need their skills over the long term. Should it be possible to sell a native app as a service? Maybe, but supporting a native app professionally is much more difficult than you seem to be acknowledging. Have you ever supported a native app in the wild across a wide variety of generic PC hardware for novice users?
  - roel_v 13y ago
    "If an app that had no sustainable future as a native app becomes possible as a web app, don't users also benefit?" Of course they do, therefore charging for software (desktop & web alike) = good. Make no mistake on which side in that debate I'm on. But let's call it like that. "And developers win because there are more viable businesses which need their skills over the long term." Sure, and it's no more than fair, and the natural order to boot. "Have you ever supported a native app in the wild across a wide variety of generic PC hardware for novice users?" I'm glad you ask, because actually yes I do, and it's a pain in the ass for the most part. And for the parts where it makes sense, I have moved parts of the services we offer to web applications. Therefore I feel I'm experienced enough to compare the advantages and disadvantages of the two, and from that I criticize the developments of people wanting to shoehorn everything into the browser, either because of covered up ulterior motives, or because it's all they know and want to know. But again - then say so, and don't sugarcoat it under the fuzzy 'it's better for the user' rhetoric that is so prevalent.
    - roel_v 13y ago
      I should add that another reason can be "because I can", which is a perfectly fine reason too, but then label it as such so that naive greenhorns don't start pushing production systems in this direction, requiring others to then deal with the fallout.

by just2n 13y ago

roel_v 13y ago

Oh I have no problems with the web, it has been providing me with a good living for well over a decade. Maybe that's my problem - that I remember the times when things that are being described now as 'great' or 'fast' were solved already, and my frustration is that instead of moving forward, we now have to repeat the last decade except with js/css before we can really start to innovate again. Unreal engine in the browser? Seriously? Because of what - because it's easier to update people's clients when they download it again every time they visit your website? We had web launchers and auto-updating that solved everything the web brings as an advantage over desktop applications (in the use cases that require fast graphics, i.e. not CRUD line of business applications) years ago. The elephant in the room here is that people want to push web applications because it's easier to make money from them, and you can make more of it, over a longer time. Look, I do it too, I know that the web beats the pants off client-only software from a business point of view. But let's call a spade a spade and not tip toe around it with bullshit pseudo-arguments like 'ease of deployability' and 'social sharing' and 'portability' and 'platform-agnosticity'.

griffordson 13y ago
If an app that had no sustainable future as a native app becomes possible as a web app, don't users also benefit? The fact is that many people are willing to pay for a service they continue to get value from month after month. And the recurring revenue also usually comes with recurring support because companies have to keep winning customer loyalty in a way they never have to with a one time sale. I think it is a net win for both customers and the companies selling the services. And developers win because there are more viable businesses which need their skills over the long term. Should it be possible to sell a native app as a service? Maybe, but supporting a native app professionally is much more difficult than you seem to be acknowledging. Have you ever supported a native app in the wild across a wide variety of generic PC hardware for novice users?
- roel_v 13y ago
  "If an app that had no sustainable future as a native app becomes possible as a web app, don't users also benefit?" Of course they do, therefore charging for software (desktop & web alike) = good. Make no mistake on which side in that debate I'm on. But let's call it like that. "And developers win because there are more viable businesses which need their skills over the long term." Sure, and it's no more than fair, and the natural order to boot. "Have you ever supported a native app in the wild across a wide variety of generic PC hardware for novice users?" I'm glad you ask, because actually yes I do, and it's a pain in the ass for the most part. And for the parts where it makes sense, I have moved parts of the services we offer to web applications. Therefore I feel I'm experienced enough to compare the advantages and disadvantages of the two, and from that I criticize the developments of people wanting to shoehorn everything into the browser, either because of covered up ulterior motives, or because it's all they know and want to know. But again - then say so, and don't sugarcoat it under the fuzzy 'it's better for the user' rhetoric that is so prevalent.
  - roel_v 13y ago
    I should add that another reason can be "because I can", which is a perfectly fine reason too, but then label it as such so that naive greenhorns don't start pushing production systems in this direction, requiring others to then deal with the fallout.