6 ms·

Ubuntu 9.04 released

154 points by mcxx 17y ago

quoderat 17y ago
I am not an anti-Microsoft person, but after having used Linux now without even Windows installed for two years straight, it is actually mentally painful to use Windows. Yeah, use whatever works best for you -- but using Windows these days feels like I'm on my Big Wheel when I was three years old. In a rubber room.
- dschobel 17y ago
  I've never met someone who used any version of windows because they thought it was a reasonable way to interface with your computer, always for application compatibility.
  - mitko 17y ago
    I do. On my work computer the OS is Ubuntu, and on my home computer it is windows 7. Personally, I like the Windows interface.
    - jherdman 17y ago
      He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The console is weak, the way files are laid out on the system irritates me, and their politics as a whole stinks. To each their own, but I concur with the GP.
      - quoderat 17y ago
        Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.
        jodrellblank 17y ago
        Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled
        smanek 17y ago
        "sudo ifdown eth0"
        quoderat 17y ago
        Problem is, it doesn't work right: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        jodrellblank 17y ago
        And if I picked a Linux distro from 8 years ago I'd find some bugs in it too. Use the current version of Windows, it has fewer bugs.
        quoderat 17y ago
        Sorry, I have to use what the company provides, not what I wish the company provided. That's the real world.
        jodrellblank 17y ago
        By that logic, if your company provided Windows 3.1 you would go around saying Windows has no multiuser support. Windows has an interface for doing what you asked. It had a bug / didn't work as described so they fixed it. Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure. But saying Windows doesn't support it is deliberately misrepresenting Windows to make it look bad. It's spreading FUD, and it's wrong. Plus, why did you bring WMI into this? You can't seem to do it with WMI: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx "If you are not using DHCP, you cannot use WMI to disable a network connection". Were you just bringing WMI into it because it sounds scary and complicated and so would help shore up your FUD, or is there a way and this MSDN article is wrong? (But you can do it by scripting the shell: http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 or by using Devcon to disable a hardware device from the command line: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us )
      - mitko 17y ago
        Yes, I agree that the console is not the main thing that one gets Windows or Mac. My rule of thumb is: less command line use-> better. Ubuntu is pretty nice and I like their efforts to provide good human interface. On the other hand there whole bunch of software that runs only on Unix machines and not on Windows. I am irritated every time I need to ssh to a linux machine just to do something simple for a class or project, but I stick to Windows for my personal needs, because I find its interface best for me.
      - actf 17y ago
        This was true back in the days of cmd.exe, but with powershell the state of the windows command line is a different story. Powershell is a huge step forward for Microsoft. I've been using it for about a year now and so far I'm very impressed. I'd even go so far as to say I prefer it to bash for certain tasks. The concept of passing objects around is, while strange at first, surprisingly intuitive and powerful. If you're currently using a combination of windows + cygwin (as I was) I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of "Powershell in Action" and giving powershell a shot for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if you don't switch to powershell. I'll concede that overall powershell still has some significant obstacles to overcome before it's better than the linux command line, but just like when windows xp came out and people stopped making legitimate complaints about window's stability - with powershell released now, I think we'll start to see the same trend with people complaining about the windows command line - these complaints will no longer be legitimate.
  - Jem 17y ago
    I've been using it for about 10 years. Application compatibility is only a small part of why I stick with it. (I have tried multiple Linux distributions and OS X)
    - mattyb 17y ago
      What are your other reasons?
      - Jem 17y ago
        Many and varied, but most importantly because I actually like Windows.
        jherdman 17y ago
        Until today, I thought people like you were the unicorns of the geek world.
        whacked_new 17y ago
        I use W/M/L on a daily basis. User of all, fanboy of none. No platform strikes a perfect balance for me. Windows accelerators are pretty good; far and beyond OS X, in my non-expert experience with the Mac. I can't say much for Linux because it's pretty much all terminal :-) Oh, the Mac mouse acceleration annoys me to no end. More edits. Actually I can't say that about Linux. It's terminal because it complements my useless cmd.exe in a VM. The Linux accelerators are about the same I guess.
        Jem 17y ago
        That's probably one of the nicest things I've been called after admitting to liking Windows ;)
  - sho 17y ago
    I wouldn't even say that. In most cases I'd say it's all about familiarity - both OS and application. Perhaps a project manager needs MS Project, or an architect needs AutoCad or something but for the "teenage girl" demographic you would be hard pressed to find any particular application they absolutely needed that doesn't exist on Linux, or there isn't a ready counterpart (eg Adium instead of MSN Messenger). They're just not used to it and dislike anything unfamiliar, since computers are basically mystic black boxes anyway. I think for many typical users it's simply a matter of preferring something they (mostly) know how to use.
    - netsp 17y ago
      It's important to use would instead of could when thinking about these things. If the teenage girl doesn't know about Adium, it's the same no Adium. It's now more likely that she would Google "MSN for linux" and be successful. That's relatively new. It still leaves her less likely to having the messenger. That likelihood is not 0. Not even on windows. There are plenty of 14 year old girls out there that don't have MSN Messenger on Windows even though they 'couldn't' overcome some sort of hurdle. http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&#3...
  - halo 17y ago
    I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at any given opportunity.
    - mseebach 17y ago
      > I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.
      - access_denied 17y ago
        I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.
        derwiki 17y ago
        I installed Ubuntu on a laptop I gave to my father a few weeks ago, and he's been using it exclusively. I don't think he can tell the difference between Ubuntu and Windows.
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        dinkumthinkum 17y ago
        You know, I'm not one of those weirdos that think desktop applications are going away. But I'd say most people who keep up with software development believe that's the case. <rant>I think that would be pretty bad if the best we'll ever be able to do is Javascript.</rant> Anyway, IF most apps people are using are Web based and compatible with Firefox or a Flash version supported in Ubuntu ... it seems less and less like there would be much point in paying for, using, and dealing with Windows. I think most seniors can just about already switch fine to Ubuntu.
  - whacked_new 17y ago
    For hybrid tablet users, Windows is the only way to go, and in that respect, I think the MS team did a pretty damn good job with the bundled functions in Vista. And those who haven't used tablets before don't know what you're missing out on :-)
    - krschultz 17y ago
      Why do you say that? We're all using Lenovo X61's with Ubuntu and its full featured.
      - whacked_new 17y ago
        I just finished Jaunty; the out-of-the-box support was remarkable, but it still falls short of Vista. Vista is really a "tablet-aware" OS; when you pick up the pen, all the penabled functions come alive. When you hold down the secondary button, an indicator appears. And you have the screen rotation buttons, on screen keyboard, excellent handwriting recognition, and the journal app, which, despite it's lame (non-svg) format, does a decent job. Jaunty was awesome up until the point of dual head. My video card is partly to blame, because on xorg I can't set two screens of different resolution, so my second monitor looks terrible, not to mention the logout required. In terms of tablet functions, you have to readjust the coordinates after you add the second monitor. On Vista, everything works with close to no intervention, and plugging in another monitor, everything still works as you expect. That's not to say Jaunty wasn't hella impressive; it was. But I'm talking about built-in features, and in this respect Vista is still ahead. Anyhow, back to ubuntu on the VM.
- utx00 17y ago
  these help: http://www.winmatrix.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13708 http://www.winmatrix.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13708 http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/servicecfg.htm http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/servicecfg.htm
- chancho 17y ago
  Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? In Linux (on the Mac too, I think) I can move, copy and delete files freely, regardless of what applications currently have that file open. On Windows, I always run into some situation where it won't let me do what I want to do because the file is open. So I have to hunt through 10-20 windows to see who has it (9 times out of 10 its a command prompt or explorer window holding on to a directory that I'm trying to delete.) I don't use windows often so maybe I'm exaggerating, but this is the single most infuriating windows usability nitpick I have. Have they fixed this in Vista or 7?
  - Jem 17y ago
    I don't know whether or not it's fixed in more recent versions, but there are programs which get around this for you (by killing processes, or telling you which process is using the file/folder). E.g. Unlocker http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/ http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/
  - trezor 17y ago
    Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? The Windows locking defaults when opening file-handles actually includes locking and has done so for such a long time that applications have come to depend on it. If you check the Win32 API you will see applications have several options for requesting (or not requesting) file-locks when doing file-operations, but not using them, the defaults are to play it safe and ensure that no data is lost due to improper access. Technologically speaking, this is kinda the same as you have in Linux, except that the defaults are the polar opposite. Changing the defaults now would break havoc among multiple applications relying on the defaults and cause massive amounts of corrupted data. So Microsoft have kept them as is. IOW: If you are having issues with file-locking, you need to blame the application-developer for not properly signalling what level and type of locking is actually required, because Windows will respect the locks set on file-handles. Maybe I'm the exception, but I consider that a good thing.
  - halo 17y ago
    It's fixed in Windows 7 by telling you which application is using the file (http://lifehacker.com/5132227/windows-7-tells-you-why-you-cant-touch-that-file http://lifehacker.com/5132227/windows-7-tells-you-why-you-ca...).
- LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
  My preferred way to explain my stance on operating systems is thus: "I don't hate Microsoft. I love Linux."
- sharjeel 17y ago
  Apart from my server machines, I'm primarily a Windows user because I've always felt that Windows (esp. XP) saves you lot of time in configuring stuff as compared to *nix (not considering mac). Of course it restricts you a lot but with tools like GnuWin32 etc. you can create quite a powerful dev box. Once I decided to install Ubuntu 8.04 in one of my machines but X didn't work due to some conflict with the graphics card. After lot of forum browsing and hair pulling, I finally went to #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net to beg for some help. I explained them the problem I was having and casually told them "I'm using Windows right now". The reply was "You mean, struggling with Windows?". Yeah right!
ja27 17y ago
Official torrent links here: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
- nuclear_eclipse 17y ago
  Or more directly: http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso... http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-amd64.is...
  - mattyb 17y ago
    I also grabbed the Kubuntu and Xubuntu LiveCDs so I can try out KDE 4.2 and Xfce without installing the packages.
- mattmcknight 17y ago
  Japanese manga comic about 3 kids getting into Ubuntu, "Ubunchu" translated to English here: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/ubunchu-the-ubuntu-manga-is-now-in-english/ http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/ubunchu-the-ubuntu-...
sant0sk1 17y ago
I'm excited for the next iteration when they revamp the default theme. Ubuntu owns but it needs to look prettier out of the box to really grab prospective switchers.
- windsurfer 17y ago
  I think it's refreshing that Ubuntu doesn't go for the "shiny and blue" feel that Vista 7 and OS X are going for. Also, 9.04 ships with 3 community themes that are very attractive.
  - sant0sk1 17y ago
    I don't fault them for not copying OS X like Microsoft did, but they do need to improve the default. Optional community themes don't help much because people need to turn the machine on and think: "Ooohhhh" not "Hmm, I bet I can make this look cooler if I go searching through the Preferences menu"
    - windsurfer 17y ago
      I remember listening to an interview with one of the original Doom developers. He said that one of the ways that they keep players interested in a game where players can go anywhere they want was by hiding secret power-ups and prizes all over a level. By rewarding a player who goes exploring, it communicates to the player that the developers want you to be interested, and that exploring can be fun. Linux is sort of like that. You can't use all of it without exploring, so it's good to hide little customizations and treats all over so when somebody stumbles across it, they say "This is so cool!" and keep looking, learning. :)
- mkuhn 17y ago
  I can only suggest to try using the Dust Theme. It can be found in the package gnome-themes-ubuntu.
  - quisxt 17y ago
    Actually, you don't need to install anything. Dust is one of the default themes now :)
twopoint718 17y ago
Again, not an anti-MS person here, I support a large number of Windows clients, but it is not my OS of choice. Maybe there are user interface tweaks that one can perform on Windows (do tell) but I can never seem to get it as minimal as running something like fluxbox on Linux (to say nothing of ratpoison, stumpwm, or xmonad). My very unscientific poll of the computer support staff at my office shows that there is fluxbox, openbox, and twm. My Windows usage is cursory, so maybe I'm totally wrong on this.
- jameskpolk 17y ago
  One option is LiteStep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiteStep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiteStep), which can make the Windows UI like AfterStep. A friend of mine uses it and claims it works very well. Some other shell replacements exist, but I've never tried any of them.
  - twopoint718 17y ago
    That does look nice, thanks!
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- davidw 17y ago
  I have a list of stuff here: http://www.welton.it/articles/windows_for_linux_users http://www.welton.it/articles/windows_for_linux_users Which, as the link suggests, is all about trying to make Windows tolerable for users of more advanced systems when said users are forced for whatever reason to hold their noses and use Windows.
k0n2ad 17y ago
Ubuntu is a fantastic distribution of a magnificent OS. I just wish I could run design apps like Flash and Photoshop on it (and no, GIMP just doesn't do it for me).
- twopoint718 17y ago
  As long as you're paying for PS, check out Codeweavers' Crossover Linux. You can run native Windows programs under Linux (Crossover is a tweaked version of Wine). It looks like Photoshop isn't quite there yet though: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/cat/?cat_id=3;cat_id=19 http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/cat/?cat_id=... It is one of the top applications that they are working on: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/toplists/ http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/toplists/
  - prewett 17y ago
    According to AppDB, Photoshop CS1 works great, so if you have or can procure an older version, this might be an option. (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=17 http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application...) If I remember the Wine Weekly News report correctly, I think Disney wanted it working on their Linux machines they used for rendering, and committed back all their fixes to Wine. So whatever that version was is probably pretty usable.
- thenduks 17y ago
  I find VMWare performs quite well for that stuff. Still, I don't want to use Windows even in that scenario. So I just use a Mac instead. I think if just Photoshop had a decent counterpart on *nix that'd be enough to get me to switch.
  - whacked_new 17y ago
    I'm in a similar boat with the GP. The main obstacle for migrating completely is a handful of the usual software titles, and tablet support. For tablet computers, like it or not, Vista is still the best, hands down. But my jaw just dropped with the out-of-the-box support in Jaunty. It is marvellous. If multi monitor works just as smoothly, today might just be the day. How well does VMWare work for you? My guest OSes are always as lean as possible with all graphics stripped out, and they are still laggy.
10ren 17y ago
I thought this release would also be available for ARM, as mentioned here: http://www.ubuntu.com/news/arm-linux http://www.ubuntu.com/news/arm-linux The netbook release says it's for Atom (though the compatibility list includes eee PC 701, which has a Celeron - by "Atom" they surely just mean intel-compatible).
- mkuhn 17y ago
  The ARM release will follow later, on the 29th I think.
pavelludiq 17y ago
I've been using the Kubuntu RC for a few days now. After the disappointment that kubuntu 8.04 was for me, im happy with this release. I've finally made the switch to KDE4, KDE3, you've served me well, but its time to go on, and KDE4 is finally good enough to not make me scream(as it used to do).
bobbyi 17y ago
The installer is warning that I shouldn't upgrade because it doesn't have a driver for my video card.
- mattyb 17y ago
  http://ubuntuforums.org http://ubuntuforums.org
oomkiller 17y ago
I tried the beta of this on my Lenovo Y510 with Intel graphics and the performance was horrible, due to the video drivers not being updated for the new Xorg 1.6 architecture. On a positive note, my grandfather continues to enjoy his new Ubuntu 8.04.2 machine though, a welcome change to the Xubuntu 7.04 machine that was a 500Mhz P3 with 128MB RAM.
raquo 17y ago
Speaking of Ubuntu usability, I just don't understand why they require me to pick a location closest to me in order to download Ubuntu. In the age of free IP geolocation databases they could at least fill this field with a best guess based on my IP or a least loaded server...

154 points by mcxx 17y ago

I am not an anti-Microsoft person, but after having used Linux now without even Windows installed for two years straight, it is actually mentally painful to use Windows. Yeah, use whatever works best for you -- but using Windows these days feels like I'm on my Big Wheel when I was three years old. In a rubber room.

dschobel 17y ago
I've never met someone who used any version of windows because they thought it was a reasonable way to interface with your computer, always for application compatibility.
- mitko 17y ago
  I do. On my work computer the OS is Ubuntu, and on my home computer it is windows 7. Personally, I like the Windows interface.
  - jherdman 17y ago
    He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The console is weak, the way files are laid out on the system irritates me, and their politics as a whole stinks. To each their own, but I concur with the GP.
    - quoderat 17y ago
      Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation. Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such. In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.
      - jodrellblank 17y ago
        Oh come on, WMI calls? you're just spreading FUD. Bring a network interface down: netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" admin=disabled
        smanek 17y ago
        "sudo ifdown eth0"
        quoderat 17y ago
        Problem is, it doesn't work right: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/262265
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        jodrellblank 17y ago
        And if I picked a Linux distro from 8 years ago I'd find some bugs in it too. Use the current version of Windows, it has fewer bugs.
        quoderat 17y ago
        Sorry, I have to use what the company provides, not what I wish the company provided. That's the real world.
        jodrellblank 17y ago
        By that logic, if your company provided Windows 3.1 you would go around saying Windows has no multiuser support. Windows has an interface for doing what you asked. It had a bug / didn't work as described so they fixed it. Your company wont buy the fix, but that doesn't mean the fix doesn't exist. It means you can't take advantage of it, sure. But saying Windows doesn't support it is deliberately misrepresenting Windows to make it look bad. It's spreading FUD, and it's wrong. Plus, why did you bring WMI into this? You can't seem to do it with WMI: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa394595(VS.85).aspx "If you are not using DHCP, you cannot use WMI to disable a network connection". Were you just bringing WMI into it because it sounds scary and complicated and so would help shore up your FUD, or is there a way and this MSDN article is wrong? (But you can do it by scripting the shell: http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 http://mcpmag.com/columns/article.asp?EditorialsID=619 or by using Devcon to disable a hardware device from the command line: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us http://support.microsoft.com/kb/311272/en-us )
    - mitko 17y ago
      Yes, I agree that the console is not the main thing that one gets Windows or Mac. My rule of thumb is: less command line use-> better. Ubuntu is pretty nice and I like their efforts to provide good human interface. On the other hand there whole bunch of software that runs only on Unix machines and not on Windows. I am irritated every time I need to ssh to a linux machine just to do something simple for a class or project, but I stick to Windows for my personal needs, because I find its interface best for me.
    - actf 17y ago
      This was true back in the days of cmd.exe, but with powershell the state of the windows command line is a different story. Powershell is a huge step forward for Microsoft. I've been using it for about a year now and so far I'm very impressed. I'd even go so far as to say I prefer it to bash for certain tasks. The concept of passing objects around is, while strange at first, surprisingly intuitive and powerful. If you're currently using a combination of windows + cygwin (as I was) I'd strongly suggest picking up a copy of "Powershell in Action" and giving powershell a shot for a couple of weeks. I'd be surprised if you don't switch to powershell. I'll concede that overall powershell still has some significant obstacles to overcome before it's better than the linux command line, but just like when windows xp came out and people stopped making legitimate complaints about window's stability - with powershell released now, I think we'll start to see the same trend with people complaining about the windows command line - these complaints will no longer be legitimate.
- Jem 17y ago
  I've been using it for about 10 years. Application compatibility is only a small part of why I stick with it. (I have tried multiple Linux distributions and OS X)
  - mattyb 17y ago
    What are your other reasons?
    - Jem 17y ago
      Many and varied, but most importantly because I actually like Windows.
      - jherdman 17y ago
        Until today, I thought people like you were the unicorns of the geek world.
        whacked_new 17y ago
        I use W/M/L on a daily basis. User of all, fanboy of none. No platform strikes a perfect balance for me. Windows accelerators are pretty good; far and beyond OS X, in my non-expert experience with the Mac. I can't say much for Linux because it's pretty much all terminal :-) Oh, the Mac mouse acceleration annoys me to no end. More edits. Actually I can't say that about Linux. It's terminal because it complements my useless cmd.exe in a VM. The Linux accelerators are about the same I guess.
        Jem 17y ago
        That's probably one of the nicest things I've been called after admitting to liking Windows ;)
- sho 17y ago
  I wouldn't even say that. In most cases I'd say it's all about familiarity - both OS and application. Perhaps a project manager needs MS Project, or an architect needs AutoCad or something but for the "teenage girl" demographic you would be hard pressed to find any particular application they absolutely needed that doesn't exist on Linux, or there isn't a ready counterpart (eg Adium instead of MSN Messenger). They're just not used to it and dislike anything unfamiliar, since computers are basically mystic black boxes anyway. I think for many typical users it's simply a matter of preferring something they (mostly) know how to use.
  - netsp 17y ago
    It's important to use would instead of could when thinking about these things. If the teenage girl doesn't know about Adium, it's the same no Adium. It's now more likely that she would Google "MSN for linux" and be successful. That's relatively new. It still leaves her less likely to having the messenger. That likelihood is not 0. Not even on windows. There are plenty of 14 year old girls out there that don't have MSN Messenger on Windows even though they 'couldn't' overcome some sort of hurdle. http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a http://www.google.com/search?q=msn+for+linux&ie=utf-8&#3...
- halo 17y ago
  I do. I like Windows a lot. I'm completely platform agnostic and I've used all 3 major platforms at various times but I always come back to Windows. I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows but they don't tend to talk about it, whereas you do tend to get a lot of outspoken Mac and Linux users who are willing to both champion their platform as well as bash Windows at any given opportunity.
  - mseebach 17y ago
    > I think there's a quiet majority of people out there who are perfectly happy with Windows I think there's a quiet majority out there who's never tried anything but Windows, and think of their computer as nothing more than a tool, completely oblivious to such abstractions as operating systems.
    - access_denied 17y ago
      I think there's a big majority of computer users, quietly suffering under Windows and simply having no idea that there even exists an alternative.
      - derwiki 17y ago
        I installed Ubuntu on a laptop I gave to my father a few weeks ago, and he's been using it exclusively. I don't think he can tell the difference between Ubuntu and Windows.
        deleted 17y ago
        [deleted]
        dinkumthinkum 17y ago
        You know, I'm not one of those weirdos that think desktop applications are going away. But I'd say most people who keep up with software development believe that's the case. <rant>I think that would be pretty bad if the best we'll ever be able to do is Javascript.</rant> Anyway, IF most apps people are using are Web based and compatible with Firefox or a Flash version supported in Ubuntu ... it seems less and less like there would be much point in paying for, using, and dealing with Windows. I think most seniors can just about already switch fine to Ubuntu.
- whacked_new 17y ago
  For hybrid tablet users, Windows is the only way to go, and in that respect, I think the MS team did a pretty damn good job with the bundled functions in Vista. And those who haven't used tablets before don't know what you're missing out on :-)
  - krschultz 17y ago
    Why do you say that? We're all using Lenovo X61's with Ubuntu and its full featured.
    - whacked_new 17y ago
      I just finished Jaunty; the out-of-the-box support was remarkable, but it still falls short of Vista. Vista is really a "tablet-aware" OS; when you pick up the pen, all the penabled functions come alive. When you hold down the secondary button, an indicator appears. And you have the screen rotation buttons, on screen keyboard, excellent handwriting recognition, and the journal app, which, despite it's lame (non-svg) format, does a decent job. Jaunty was awesome up until the point of dual head. My video card is partly to blame, because on xorg I can't set two screens of different resolution, so my second monitor looks terrible, not to mention the logout required. In terms of tablet functions, you have to readjust the coordinates after you add the second monitor. On Vista, everything works with close to no intervention, and plugging in another monitor, everything still works as you expect. That's not to say Jaunty wasn't hella impressive; it was. But I'm talking about built-in features, and in this respect Vista is still ahead. Anyhow, back to ubuntu on the VM.
utx00 17y ago
these help: http://www.winmatrix.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13708 http://www.winmatrix.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13708 http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/servicecfg.htm http://www.blackviper.com/WinVista/servicecfg.htm
chancho 17y ago
Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? In Linux (on the Mac too, I think) I can move, copy and delete files freely, regardless of what applications currently have that file open. On Windows, I always run into some situation where it won't let me do what I want to do because the file is open. So I have to hunt through 10-20 windows to see who has it (9 times out of 10 its a command prompt or explorer window holding on to a directory that I'm trying to delete.) I don't use windows often so maybe I'm exaggerating, but this is the single most infuriating windows usability nitpick I have. Have they fixed this in Vista or 7?
- Jem 17y ago
  I don't know whether or not it's fixed in more recent versions, but there are programs which get around this for you (by killing processes, or telling you which process is using the file/folder). E.g. Unlocker http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/ http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/
- trezor 17y ago
  Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? The Windows locking defaults when opening file-handles actually includes locking and has done so for such a long time that applications have come to depend on it. If you check the Win32 API you will see applications have several options for requesting (or not requesting) file-locks when doing file-operations, but not using them, the defaults are to play it safe and ensure that no data is lost due to improper access. Technologically speaking, this is kinda the same as you have in Linux, except that the defaults are the polar opposite. Changing the defaults now would break havoc among multiple applications relying on the defaults and cause massive amounts of corrupted data. So Microsoft have kept them as is. IOW: If you are having issues with file-locking, you need to blame the application-developer for not properly signalling what level and type of locking is actually required, because Windows will respect the locks set on file-handles. Maybe I'm the exception, but I consider that a good thing.
- halo 17y ago
  It's fixed in Windows 7 by telling you which application is using the file (http://lifehacker.com/5132227/windows-7-tells-you-why-you-cant-touch-that-file http://lifehacker.com/5132227/windows-7-tells-you-why-you-ca...).
LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
My preferred way to explain my stance on operating systems is thus: "I don't hate Microsoft. I love Linux."
sharjeel 17y ago
Apart from my server machines, I'm primarily a Windows user because I've always felt that Windows (esp. XP) saves you lot of time in configuring stuff as compared to *nix (not considering mac). Of course it restricts you a lot but with tools like GnuWin32 etc. you can create quite a powerful dev box. Once I decided to install Ubuntu 8.04 in one of my machines but X didn't work due to some conflict with the graphics card. After lot of forum browsing and hair pulling, I finally went to #ubuntu on irc.freenode.net to beg for some help. I explained them the problem I was having and casually told them "I'm using Windows right now". The reply was "You mean, struggling with Windows?". Yeah right!

ja27 17y ago

Official torrent links here: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/ http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/

nuclear_eclipse 17y ago
Or more directly: http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso.torrent http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.iso... http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-amd64.iso.torrent http://releases.ubuntu.com/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-amd64.is...
- mattyb 17y ago
  I also grabbed the Kubuntu and Xubuntu LiveCDs so I can try out KDE 4.2 and Xfce without installing the packages.
mattmcknight 17y ago
Japanese manga comic about 3 kids getting into Ubuntu, "Ubunchu" translated to English here: http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/ubunchu-the-ubuntu-manga-is-now-in-english/ http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/ubunchu-the-ubuntu-...

sant0sk1 17y ago

I'm excited for the next iteration when they revamp the default theme. Ubuntu owns but it needs to look prettier out of the box to really grab prospective switchers.

windsurfer 17y ago
I think it's refreshing that Ubuntu doesn't go for the "shiny and blue" feel that Vista 7 and OS X are going for. Also, 9.04 ships with 3 community themes that are very attractive.
- sant0sk1 17y ago
  I don't fault them for not copying OS X like Microsoft did, but they do need to improve the default. Optional community themes don't help much because people need to turn the machine on and think: "Ooohhhh" not "Hmm, I bet I can make this look cooler if I go searching through the Preferences menu"
  - windsurfer 17y ago
    I remember listening to an interview with one of the original Doom developers. He said that one of the ways that they keep players interested in a game where players can go anywhere they want was by hiding secret power-ups and prizes all over a level. By rewarding a player who goes exploring, it communicates to the player that the developers want you to be interested, and that exploring can be fun. Linux is sort of like that. You can't use all of it without exploring, so it's good to hide little customizations and treats all over so when somebody stumbles across it, they say "This is so cool!" and keep looking, learning. :)
mkuhn 17y ago
I can only suggest to try using the Dust Theme. It can be found in the package gnome-themes-ubuntu.
- quisxt 17y ago
  Actually, you don't need to install anything. Dust is one of the default themes now :)

twopoint718 17y ago

Again, not an anti-MS person here, I support a large number of Windows clients, but it is not my OS of choice. Maybe there are user interface tweaks that one can perform on Windows (do tell) but I can never seem to get it as minimal as running something like fluxbox on Linux (to say nothing of ratpoison, stumpwm, or xmonad). My very unscientific poll of the computer support staff at my office shows that there is fluxbox, openbox, and twm. My Windows usage is cursory, so maybe I'm totally wrong on this.

jameskpolk 17y ago
One option is LiteStep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiteStep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiteStep), which can make the Windows UI like AfterStep. A friend of mine uses it and claims it works very well. Some other shell replacements exist, but I've never tried any of them.
- twopoint718 17y ago
  That does look nice, thanks!
deleted 17y ago
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davidw 17y ago
I have a list of stuff here: http://www.welton.it/articles/windows_for_linux_users http://www.welton.it/articles/windows_for_linux_users Which, as the link suggests, is all about trying to make Windows tolerable for users of more advanced systems when said users are forced for whatever reason to hold their noses and use Windows.

k0n2ad 17y ago

Ubuntu is a fantastic distribution of a magnificent OS. I just wish I could run design apps like Flash and Photoshop on it (and no, GIMP just doesn't do it for me).

twopoint718 17y ago
As long as you're paying for PS, check out Codeweavers' Crossover Linux. You can run native Windows programs under Linux (Crossover is a tweaked version of Wine). It looks like Photoshop isn't quite there yet though: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/cat/?cat_id=3;cat_id=19 http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/cat/?cat_id=... It is one of the top applications that they are working on: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/toplists/ http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/toplists/
- prewett 17y ago
  According to AppDB, Photoshop CS1 works great, so if you have or can procure an older version, this might be an option. (http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=17 http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application...) If I remember the Wine Weekly News report correctly, I think Disney wanted it working on their Linux machines they used for rendering, and committed back all their fixes to Wine. So whatever that version was is probably pretty usable.
thenduks 17y ago
I find VMWare performs quite well for that stuff. Still, I don't want to use Windows even in that scenario. So I just use a Mac instead. I think if just Photoshop had a decent counterpart on *nix that'd be enough to get me to switch.
- whacked_new 17y ago
  I'm in a similar boat with the GP. The main obstacle for migrating completely is a handful of the usual software titles, and tablet support. For tablet computers, like it or not, Vista is still the best, hands down. But my jaw just dropped with the out-of-the-box support in Jaunty. It is marvellous. If multi monitor works just as smoothly, today might just be the day. How well does VMWare work for you? My guest OSes are always as lean as possible with all graphics stripped out, and they are still laggy.

10ren 17y ago

I thought this release would also be available for ARM, as mentioned here: http://www.ubuntu.com/news/arm-linux http://www.ubuntu.com/news/arm-linux The netbook release says it's for Atom (though the compatibility list includes eee PC 701, which has a Celeron - by "Atom" they surely just mean intel-compatible).

mkuhn 17y ago
The ARM release will follow later, on the 29th I think.

pavelludiq 17y ago

I've been using the Kubuntu RC for a few days now. After the disappointment that kubuntu 8.04 was for me, im happy with this release. I've finally made the switch to KDE4, KDE3, you've served me well, but its time to go on, and KDE4 is finally good enough to not make me scream(as it used to do).

bobbyi 17y ago

The installer is warning that I shouldn't upgrade because it doesn't have a driver for my video card.

mattyb 17y ago
http://ubuntuforums.org http://ubuntuforums.org

oomkiller 17y ago

I tried the beta of this on my Lenovo Y510 with Intel graphics and the performance was horrible, due to the video drivers not being updated for the new Xorg 1.6 architecture. On a positive note, my grandfather continues to enjoy his new Ubuntu 8.04.2 machine though, a welcome change to the Xubuntu 7.04 machine that was a 500Mhz P3 with 128MB RAM.

raquo 17y ago

Speaking of Ubuntu usability, I just don't understand why they require me to pick a location closest to me in order to download Ubuntu. In the age of free IP geolocation databases they could at least fill this field with a best guess based on my IP or a least loaded server...