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A Workers’ Paradise Found Off Japan’s Coast

19 points by kqr2 18y ago

danteembermage 18y ago
I think socialist utopias are a lot more palatable when you can know everyone you're sharing the wealth with, see the good it does first hand, have the scale small enough to make individuals feel empowered enough politically to change policies that are unpleasant or inefficient, and enjoy the freedom to move out at any point.
- radu_floricica 18y ago
  Palatable, yes. But it's workable for very different reasons: a traditional society, fear of ostracization, respect to authority.
  - quoderat 18y ago
    Also, it helps to be ethnically homogeneous, as much as that displeases some people.
    - Rod 18y ago
      Sweden is a prime example of that...
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
tjic 18y ago
> the village ... now directly or indirectly employs a fifth of all working islanders. Most of the rest are engaged in fishing, also government-subsidized. Dollars to donuts, we're looking at a case of massive subsidy from the national government. Jobs may sound good, but if there's a ton of labor going into not-very-productive folks going through the motions (being paid to catch fish that are worth less than the cost of the labor that produces them!??!), then the whole thing is just an elaborate kabuki (pardon me) show masking the fact that it's fundamentally just a case of welfare transfers.
- donw 18y ago
  Couldn't agree more -- the work-theatre kabuki in Japan is both charming (the three men directing traffic around a hole in the sidewalk), and incredibly idiotic (being paid to catch unprofitable fish). What's strange is that the three guys around the mini-construction-site make sense to me. But I'll still go visit this place, just because it's part of my favorite bit of Japan (Kyushu).
  - poiuhjkl 18y ago
    (being paid to catch unprofitable fish) Isn't necessarily bad. I live in area where coal was deemed uneconomic to mine 20years ago with a subsidy. The result of closing all the mines is that for 20years the area has had the highest unemployment, highest crime, highest drug use and worst health in Europe. The cost of the social security payments, health care, policing and continual 'renewal' attempts have been many times the saving on buying imported coal.
    - donw 18y ago
      Yorkshire?
teilo 18y ago
The attempted parallels to N. Korea and Cuba are non sequester. If Hime was an independent nation the comparison would be justified. As it is, they are a part of the Japanese economy, and enjoy the same military protection (provided by the West) as the rest of the nation. They could never stand on their own.
TweedHeads 18y ago
How can it be paradise to work the same and get paid a third? Do all of them have health insurance covered? Housing? Savings? Internet? iPhones? They can eat their fish without sweat but can they travel to the bahamas for vacation? Tribal living is good for a thousand, try applying that to 20 million in New York.

19 points by kqr2 18y ago

I think socialist utopias are a lot more palatable when you can know everyone you're sharing the wealth with, see the good it does first hand, have the scale small enough to make individuals feel empowered enough politically to change policies that are unpleasant or inefficient, and enjoy the freedom to move out at any point.

radu_floricica 18y ago
Palatable, yes. But it's workable for very different reasons: a traditional society, fear of ostracization, respect to authority.
- quoderat 18y ago
  Also, it helps to be ethnically homogeneous, as much as that displeases some people.
  - Rod 18y ago
    Sweden is a prime example of that...

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

tjic 18y ago

> the village ... now directly or indirectly employs a fifth of all working islanders. Most of the rest are engaged in fishing, also government-subsidized. Dollars to donuts, we're looking at a case of massive subsidy from the national government. Jobs may sound good, but if there's a ton of labor going into not-very-productive folks going through the motions (being paid to catch fish that are worth less than the cost of the labor that produces them!??!), then the whole thing is just an elaborate kabuki (pardon me) show masking the fact that it's fundamentally just a case of welfare transfers.

donw 18y ago
Couldn't agree more -- the work-theatre kabuki in Japan is both charming (the three men directing traffic around a hole in the sidewalk), and incredibly idiotic (being paid to catch unprofitable fish). What's strange is that the three guys around the mini-construction-site make sense to me. But I'll still go visit this place, just because it's part of my favorite bit of Japan (Kyushu).
- poiuhjkl 18y ago
  (being paid to catch unprofitable fish) Isn't necessarily bad. I live in area where coal was deemed uneconomic to mine 20years ago with a subsidy. The result of closing all the mines is that for 20years the area has had the highest unemployment, highest crime, highest drug use and worst health in Europe. The cost of the social security payments, health care, policing and continual 'renewal' attempts have been many times the saving on buying imported coal.
  - donw 18y ago
    Yorkshire?

teilo 18y ago

The attempted parallels to N. Korea and Cuba are non sequester. If Hime was an independent nation the comparison would be justified. As it is, they are a part of the Japanese economy, and enjoy the same military protection (provided by the West) as the rest of the nation. They could never stand on their own.

TweedHeads 18y ago

How can it be paradise to work the same and get paid a third? Do all of them have health insurance covered? Housing? Savings? Internet? iPhones? They can eat their fish without sweat but can they travel to the bahamas for vacation? Tribal living is good for a thousand, try applying that to 20 million in New York.