6 ms·

Dude, a lot of games are going to start being 'indie'. The programmers are smart - I foresee a lot of good programmers going into either middleware or kickstar

Dude, a lot of games are going to start being 'indie'. The programmers are smart - I foresee a lot of good programmers going into either middleware or kickstarter. The next gen consoles, with their power, are going to bring dynamic animation and procedural 3D environments and numerous innovative areas so that small teams can unshackle themselves from the legions of artists necessary today.

seivan 13y ago
I agree. Lower operation costs, no need to pay all those worthless sack of shit suits and manager cunts. 90% of paid salaries will be to people who contribute to sound, code, graphics and other things that is shipped.
- witek 13y ago
  Strong words but you also need somebody to make sure it all comes together and actually ships.
  - princess3000 13y ago
    That's true but there is a middle ground, and it's not like indie developers can't get it together and ship great code without being massive. A good recent example that gets thrown around here is the new Tomb Raider, where first month sales of ~3.5 million were underwhelming because the game cost so much to make (and/or was meant to subsidize Square-Enix's other recent failures). Compare that to something like Braid or Journey, which obviously aren't games of the same scope as Tomb Raider but they're quality, highly rated games made by a fraction of the people.
- mkilling 13y ago
  I'm starting to get tired of this 'we don't need no suits' talk on HN. You need a marketing strategy, regardless of how good your game is. Publishers have the know how and capital to devise and implement such a strategy. Don't make the mistake to assume that they are just there to take a cut of your profits without putting any value on the table.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    Yeah, there's a lot of talk but not many successful examples to make up for the speech. What has actually come out of Kickstarter yet? Not much. And most of the game-related projects are super late. Mmmm. I am not sure that developers without publisher pressure is ACTUALLY a good thing. Sometimes you need constraints to do good work.
    - mercurial 13y ago
      Well, games with publisher pressure are often late as well and/or released half-finished, so that's not a shining example of a business layer making a real difference.
  - tomjen3 13y ago
    You don't need a marketing strategy, you need somebody who knows pr, since you can't afford to pay for ads anyway.that person shouldn't be in a suit.
    - icebraining 13y ago
      Marketing is way more than just ads and PR.
m3mnoch 13y ago
"good programmers" and "good indie games" are not by any stretch of the imagination mutually inclusive. [insert made up stat where 9 out of 10 badass programmers don't have the creative umph to put out a fun game] m3mnoch.
teamonkey 13y ago
> The next gen consoles, with their power, are going to bring dynamic animation and procedural 3D environments and numerous innovative areas so that small teams can unshackle themselves from the legions of artists necessary today. Ah, the dream. I've heard the same thing for the last 15 years.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  Especially since the "next gen consoles" are about the same performance as today's mid-range gamer PC.
  - teamonkey 13y ago
    Switching to x86 architecture doesn't make it a PC in a box. These are highly tuned machines, designed specifically for developers to maximize performance. Yes, even the Xbox One.
    - ekianjo 13y ago
      Yeah well, the same thing was said about the Xbox360 when it came out, yet it didn't outperform the PC of that time very much even though it was "highly tuned" as well. And AMD APUs are not very powerful beasts either, as far as I know. Not matter how tuned the whole architecture is...
      - teamonkey 13y ago
        They'll do the job for the next 5 years or more. In 2005 a 360 was significantly cheaper than an equivalent PC and I'm sure the same will be true this time around. If you look at how the extra power on PC is used you'll see it's the same type of games, prettier. Almost universally. I can't think of a PC game that uses performance to do something significantly new or interesting, or even do some gameplay better. It's going to be the same this new generation too. What can we so with this extra raw power? Not much more except make the game games, prettier. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo know this, which is why they're all pushing for second screen integration, social features, online connectivity and (especially in MS's case) motion input.
bryne 13y ago
Microsoft isn't betting on missing out on the next Minecraft. They're betting on being able to bring it to the platform once it's a confirmed hit. Compared to the consumer-facing mess that's XBLIG, it's hard to fault them.

seivan 13y ago

I agree. Lower operation costs, no need to pay all those worthless sack of shit suits and manager cunts. 90% of paid salaries will be to people who contribute to sound, code, graphics and other things that is shipped.

witek 13y ago
Strong words but you also need somebody to make sure it all comes together and actually ships.
- princess3000 13y ago
  That's true but there is a middle ground, and it's not like indie developers can't get it together and ship great code without being massive. A good recent example that gets thrown around here is the new Tomb Raider, where first month sales of ~3.5 million were underwhelming because the game cost so much to make (and/or was meant to subsidize Square-Enix's other recent failures). Compare that to something like Braid or Journey, which obviously aren't games of the same scope as Tomb Raider but they're quality, highly rated games made by a fraction of the people.
mkilling 13y ago
I'm starting to get tired of this 'we don't need no suits' talk on HN. You need a marketing strategy, regardless of how good your game is. Publishers have the know how and capital to devise and implement such a strategy. Don't make the mistake to assume that they are just there to take a cut of your profits without putting any value on the table.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  Yeah, there's a lot of talk but not many successful examples to make up for the speech. What has actually come out of Kickstarter yet? Not much. And most of the game-related projects are super late. Mmmm. I am not sure that developers without publisher pressure is ACTUALLY a good thing. Sometimes you need constraints to do good work.
  - mercurial 13y ago
    Well, games with publisher pressure are often late as well and/or released half-finished, so that's not a shining example of a business layer making a real difference.
- tomjen3 13y ago
  You don't need a marketing strategy, you need somebody who knows pr, since you can't afford to pay for ads anyway.that person shouldn't be in a suit.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Marketing is way more than just ads and PR.

m3mnoch 13y ago

"good programmers" and "good indie games" are not by any stretch of the imagination mutually inclusive. [insert made up stat where 9 out of 10 badass programmers don't have the creative umph to put out a fun game] m3mnoch.

teamonkey 13y ago

> The next gen consoles, with their power, are going to bring dynamic animation and procedural 3D environments and numerous innovative areas so that small teams can unshackle themselves from the legions of artists necessary today. Ah, the dream. I've heard the same thing for the last 15 years.

ekianjo 13y ago
Especially since the "next gen consoles" are about the same performance as today's mid-range gamer PC.
- teamonkey 13y ago
  Switching to x86 architecture doesn't make it a PC in a box. These are highly tuned machines, designed specifically for developers to maximize performance. Yes, even the Xbox One.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    Yeah well, the same thing was said about the Xbox360 when it came out, yet it didn't outperform the PC of that time very much even though it was "highly tuned" as well. And AMD APUs are not very powerful beasts either, as far as I know. Not matter how tuned the whole architecture is...
    - teamonkey 13y ago
      They'll do the job for the next 5 years or more. In 2005 a 360 was significantly cheaper than an equivalent PC and I'm sure the same will be true this time around. If you look at how the extra power on PC is used you'll see it's the same type of games, prettier. Almost universally. I can't think of a PC game that uses performance to do something significantly new or interesting, or even do some gameplay better. It's going to be the same this new generation too. What can we so with this extra raw power? Not much more except make the game games, prettier. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo know this, which is why they're all pushing for second screen integration, social features, online connectivity and (especially in MS's case) motion input.

bryne 13y ago

Microsoft isn't betting on missing out on the next Minecraft. They're betting on being able to bring it to the platform once it's a confirmed hit. Compared to the consumer-facing mess that's XBLIG, it's hard to fault them.