5 ms·

Funny. So far everything I've seen makes XO a clear choice for me over the PS4. To each their own. Not to say, I don't want Indie developers, but that is not re

by nthitz 13y ago

Funny. So far everything I've seen makes XO a clear choice for me over the PS4. To each their own. Not to say, I don't want Indie developers, but that is not really a factor I even consider when making a purchase.

batgaijin 13y ago
Dude, a lot of games are going to start being 'indie'. The programmers are smart - I foresee a lot of good programmers going into either middleware or kickstarter. The next gen consoles, with their power, are going to bring dynamic animation and procedural 3D environments and numerous innovative areas so that small teams can unshackle themselves from the legions of artists necessary today.
- seivan 13y ago
  I agree. Lower operation costs, no need to pay all those worthless sack of shit suits and manager cunts. 90% of paid salaries will be to people who contribute to sound, code, graphics and other things that is shipped.
  - witek 13y ago
    Strong words but you also need somebody to make sure it all comes together and actually ships.
    - princess3000 13y ago
      That's true but there is a middle ground, and it's not like indie developers can't get it together and ship great code without being massive. A good recent example that gets thrown around here is the new Tomb Raider, where first month sales of ~3.5 million were underwhelming because the game cost so much to make (and/or was meant to subsidize Square-Enix's other recent failures). Compare that to something like Braid or Journey, which obviously aren't games of the same scope as Tomb Raider but they're quality, highly rated games made by a fraction of the people.
  - mkilling 13y ago
    I'm starting to get tired of this 'we don't need no suits' talk on HN. You need a marketing strategy, regardless of how good your game is. Publishers have the know how and capital to devise and implement such a strategy. Don't make the mistake to assume that they are just there to take a cut of your profits without putting any value on the table.
    - ekianjo 13y ago
      Yeah, there's a lot of talk but not many successful examples to make up for the speech. What has actually come out of Kickstarter yet? Not much. And most of the game-related projects are super late. Mmmm. I am not sure that developers without publisher pressure is ACTUALLY a good thing. Sometimes you need constraints to do good work.
      - mercurial 13y ago
        Well, games with publisher pressure are often late as well and/or released half-finished, so that's not a shining example of a business layer making a real difference.
    - tomjen3 13y ago
      You don't need a marketing strategy, you need somebody who knows pr, since you can't afford to pay for ads anyway.that person shouldn't be in a suit.
      - icebraining 13y ago
        Marketing is way more than just ads and PR.
- m3mnoch 13y ago
  "good programmers" and "good indie games" are not by any stretch of the imagination mutually inclusive. [insert made up stat where 9 out of 10 badass programmers don't have the creative umph to put out a fun game] m3mnoch.
- teamonkey 13y ago
  > The next gen consoles, with their power, are going to bring dynamic animation and procedural 3D environments and numerous innovative areas so that small teams can unshackle themselves from the legions of artists necessary today. Ah, the dream. I've heard the same thing for the last 15 years.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    Especially since the "next gen consoles" are about the same performance as today's mid-range gamer PC.
    - teamonkey 13y ago
      Switching to x86 architecture doesn't make it a PC in a box. These are highly tuned machines, designed specifically for developers to maximize performance. Yes, even the Xbox One.
      - ekianjo 13y ago
        Yeah well, the same thing was said about the Xbox360 when it came out, yet it didn't outperform the PC of that time very much even though it was "highly tuned" as well. And AMD APUs are not very powerful beasts either, as far as I know. Not matter how tuned the whole architecture is...
        teamonkey 13y ago
        They'll do the job for the next 5 years or more. In 2005 a 360 was significantly cheaper than an equivalent PC and I'm sure the same will be true this time around. If you look at how the extra power on PC is used you'll see it's the same type of games, prettier. Almost universally. I can't think of a PC game that uses performance to do something significantly new or interesting, or even do some gameplay better. It's going to be the same this new generation too. What can we so with this extra raw power? Not much more except make the game games, prettier. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo know this, which is why they're all pushing for second screen integration, social features, online connectivity and (especially in MS's case) motion input.
- bryne 13y ago
  Microsoft isn't betting on missing out on the next Minecraft. They're betting on being able to bring it to the platform once it's a confirmed hit. Compared to the consumer-facing mess that's XBLIG, it's hard to fault them.
bmelton 13y ago
I'm in the same (but kind of opposite) boat. I see the XO as pretty much everything I want in a multi-purpose console, however, the only games I really play on the Xbox are Minecraft and Braid, which I assume would be excluded here (welcome to be proven wrong). Regardless, the Indie games tend to be the ones I gravitate to, for no good reason I can determine, so that's a pretty damning data point to me at least.
- OmarIsmail 13y ago
  Both Minecraft and Braid type games will also launch on the XO since both games had a publishing deal (both under Microsoft actually).
  - chc 13y ago
    If one big player in the last generation had welcomed indie devs, it is likely that games like Minecraft and Braid would have been exclusive to their platform. As it was, Microsoft was more open by offering publishing deals. They needed publishing deals in the current generation because there was no other option.
bitcrusher 13y ago
Really? Are you just saying that to be contrary? What specifically about the XO are you more excited about than the PS4? I'm genuinely curious. Personally, the locking down of the platform to destroy the used game market is a big loss, imo. Being anti-friendly to indie developers is just another data point for sure; it's still not engendering excitement about the future of the XBox.
- nthitz 13y ago
  I don't watch much live TV, yet I think the TV integration is cool. The fantasy sports stuff is just one possibility, it was hinted at during the presentation, but imagine what could be done for debates or less interesting award shows. The newer Kinect seems real neat, although I do fear what it could be used for, (emotion tracking during tv ads?) I think it's too early to speculate on "destroying the used game market" as MS has been very vague on the exact details. Not an issue for Steam for what it's worth. Skype integration does seem cool, after moving away from home, it's nice to Skype with the family back home, and doing it on a TV seems more personal to me than an iPad or laptop. The instant switching feature seems cool too, will have to see how it actually performs. Right now on my tv there is 2-3 second delay while switching inputs. Quite a first world problem, but cool that they are addressing it. To me it didn't seem like PS4 brought much new to the table, while XO seems a bit more of an evolution of the last console.
  - w1ntermute 13y ago
    Things like instant switching seem to be minor to me compared to the locked-down nature of the XO. I would much rather have a PS4 and just use a Roku for watching video.
  - roc 13y ago
    The snap-in app stuff loses a lot of its potential when Microsoft comes out and says that devs have to establish traditional console publishing partnerships. e.g. Want to put your app.net snap-in out there so people can communicate that way during broadcast events? Sorry, Twitter doesn't want it. Maybe Facebook has enough money to buy its way in, but you're SOL. Want to do an Amazon-style "X-Ray" companion app for video content? Sorry, Microsoft is rolling their own. xmpp chat? Nope. It's Skype-or-nothing. etc.
ekianjo 13y ago
Honestly I don't see much difference. Roughly the same (powerless) hardware based on AMD APU crap, which means that any mid-range gaming PC will be leaving these consoles in the dust right at launch. The fact that these consoles have PC-like hardware make the market ripe for disruption: Now any company, like Valve and their potential steambox, can come and put a cheap AMD APU based box on the market and let publishers publish the very same games that they publish on the PS4 and Xbox One. Of course this means you will not get access to exclusive games from Sony or Microsoft, but that's been proven to be a very small amount of games every year (less than 5%). It may be a new come-back for the PC in the living room.
- jiggy2011 13y ago
  The exclusive titles are often the "Must haves" though, not to mention that you can sell for higher prices than you can on a PC.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    What Must-haves were there on the current generation ? I was considering "Trico" as one of them for PS3 but it never came out... and will probably be cancelled or something. Honestly, nothing much comes to mind, and most of the so-called exclusive titles like Alan Wake made it to the PC eventually.
    - jiggy2011 13y ago
      Halo 3, GTA 4 , forza 2 and Gears of War were the titles I remember everyone being excited about around launch. Granted some of these did come out for PC eventually but there was quite a wait.

by nthitz 13y ago

batgaijin 13y ago

Dude, a lot of games are going to start being 'indie'. The programmers are smart - I foresee a lot of good programmers going into either middleware or kickstarter. The next gen consoles, with their power, are going to bring dynamic animation and procedural 3D environments and numerous innovative areas so that small teams can unshackle themselves from the legions of artists necessary today.

seivan 13y ago
I agree. Lower operation costs, no need to pay all those worthless sack of shit suits and manager cunts. 90% of paid salaries will be to people who contribute to sound, code, graphics and other things that is shipped.
- witek 13y ago
  Strong words but you also need somebody to make sure it all comes together and actually ships.
  - princess3000 13y ago
    That's true but there is a middle ground, and it's not like indie developers can't get it together and ship great code without being massive. A good recent example that gets thrown around here is the new Tomb Raider, where first month sales of ~3.5 million were underwhelming because the game cost so much to make (and/or was meant to subsidize Square-Enix's other recent failures). Compare that to something like Braid or Journey, which obviously aren't games of the same scope as Tomb Raider but they're quality, highly rated games made by a fraction of the people.
- mkilling 13y ago
  I'm starting to get tired of this 'we don't need no suits' talk on HN. You need a marketing strategy, regardless of how good your game is. Publishers have the know how and capital to devise and implement such a strategy. Don't make the mistake to assume that they are just there to take a cut of your profits without putting any value on the table.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    Yeah, there's a lot of talk but not many successful examples to make up for the speech. What has actually come out of Kickstarter yet? Not much. And most of the game-related projects are super late. Mmmm. I am not sure that developers without publisher pressure is ACTUALLY a good thing. Sometimes you need constraints to do good work.
    - mercurial 13y ago
      Well, games with publisher pressure are often late as well and/or released half-finished, so that's not a shining example of a business layer making a real difference.
  - tomjen3 13y ago
    You don't need a marketing strategy, you need somebody who knows pr, since you can't afford to pay for ads anyway.that person shouldn't be in a suit.
    - icebraining 13y ago
      Marketing is way more than just ads and PR.
m3mnoch 13y ago
"good programmers" and "good indie games" are not by any stretch of the imagination mutually inclusive. [insert made up stat where 9 out of 10 badass programmers don't have the creative umph to put out a fun game] m3mnoch.
teamonkey 13y ago
> The next gen consoles, with their power, are going to bring dynamic animation and procedural 3D environments and numerous innovative areas so that small teams can unshackle themselves from the legions of artists necessary today. Ah, the dream. I've heard the same thing for the last 15 years.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  Especially since the "next gen consoles" are about the same performance as today's mid-range gamer PC.
  - teamonkey 13y ago
    Switching to x86 architecture doesn't make it a PC in a box. These are highly tuned machines, designed specifically for developers to maximize performance. Yes, even the Xbox One.
    - ekianjo 13y ago
      Yeah well, the same thing was said about the Xbox360 when it came out, yet it didn't outperform the PC of that time very much even though it was "highly tuned" as well. And AMD APUs are not very powerful beasts either, as far as I know. Not matter how tuned the whole architecture is...
      - teamonkey 13y ago
        They'll do the job for the next 5 years or more. In 2005 a 360 was significantly cheaper than an equivalent PC and I'm sure the same will be true this time around. If you look at how the extra power on PC is used you'll see it's the same type of games, prettier. Almost universally. I can't think of a PC game that uses performance to do something significantly new or interesting, or even do some gameplay better. It's going to be the same this new generation too. What can we so with this extra raw power? Not much more except make the game games, prettier. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo know this, which is why they're all pushing for second screen integration, social features, online connectivity and (especially in MS's case) motion input.
bryne 13y ago
Microsoft isn't betting on missing out on the next Minecraft. They're betting on being able to bring it to the platform once it's a confirmed hit. Compared to the consumer-facing mess that's XBLIG, it's hard to fault them.

bmelton 13y ago

I'm in the same (but kind of opposite) boat. I see the XO as pretty much everything I want in a multi-purpose console, however, the only games I really play on the Xbox are Minecraft and Braid, which I assume would be excluded here (welcome to be proven wrong). Regardless, the Indie games tend to be the ones I gravitate to, for no good reason I can determine, so that's a pretty damning data point to me at least.

OmarIsmail 13y ago
Both Minecraft and Braid type games will also launch on the XO since both games had a publishing deal (both under Microsoft actually).
- chc 13y ago
  If one big player in the last generation had welcomed indie devs, it is likely that games like Minecraft and Braid would have been exclusive to their platform. As it was, Microsoft was more open by offering publishing deals. They needed publishing deals in the current generation because there was no other option.

bitcrusher 13y ago

Really? Are you just saying that to be contrary? What specifically about the XO are you more excited about than the PS4? I'm genuinely curious. Personally, the locking down of the platform to destroy the used game market is a big loss, imo. Being anti-friendly to indie developers is just another data point for sure; it's still not engendering excitement about the future of the XBox.

nthitz 13y ago
I don't watch much live TV, yet I think the TV integration is cool. The fantasy sports stuff is just one possibility, it was hinted at during the presentation, but imagine what could be done for debates or less interesting award shows. The newer Kinect seems real neat, although I do fear what it could be used for, (emotion tracking during tv ads?) I think it's too early to speculate on "destroying the used game market" as MS has been very vague on the exact details. Not an issue for Steam for what it's worth. Skype integration does seem cool, after moving away from home, it's nice to Skype with the family back home, and doing it on a TV seems more personal to me than an iPad or laptop. The instant switching feature seems cool too, will have to see how it actually performs. Right now on my tv there is 2-3 second delay while switching inputs. Quite a first world problem, but cool that they are addressing it. To me it didn't seem like PS4 brought much new to the table, while XO seems a bit more of an evolution of the last console.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  Things like instant switching seem to be minor to me compared to the locked-down nature of the XO. I would much rather have a PS4 and just use a Roku for watching video.
- roc 13y ago
  The snap-in app stuff loses a lot of its potential when Microsoft comes out and says that devs have to establish traditional console publishing partnerships. e.g. Want to put your app.net snap-in out there so people can communicate that way during broadcast events? Sorry, Twitter doesn't want it. Maybe Facebook has enough money to buy its way in, but you're SOL. Want to do an Amazon-style "X-Ray" companion app for video content? Sorry, Microsoft is rolling their own. xmpp chat? Nope. It's Skype-or-nothing. etc.

ekianjo 13y ago

Honestly I don't see much difference. Roughly the same (powerless) hardware based on AMD APU crap, which means that any mid-range gaming PC will be leaving these consoles in the dust right at launch. The fact that these consoles have PC-like hardware make the market ripe for disruption: Now any company, like Valve and their potential steambox, can come and put a cheap AMD APU based box on the market and let publishers publish the very same games that they publish on the PS4 and Xbox One. Of course this means you will not get access to exclusive games from Sony or Microsoft, but that's been proven to be a very small amount of games every year (less than 5%). It may be a new come-back for the PC in the living room.

jiggy2011 13y ago
The exclusive titles are often the "Must haves" though, not to mention that you can sell for higher prices than you can on a PC.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  What Must-haves were there on the current generation ? I was considering "Trico" as one of them for PS3 but it never came out... and will probably be cancelled or something. Honestly, nothing much comes to mind, and most of the so-called exclusive titles like Alan Wake made it to the PC eventually.
  - jiggy2011 13y ago
    Halo 3, GTA 4 , forza 2 and Gears of War were the titles I remember everyone being excited about around launch. Granted some of these did come out for PC eventually but there was quite a wait.