> It seems like ORMs like Hibernate are moving to have as much complexity as the database they map. this seems to be a result of the desire to support the incr

> It seems like ORMs like Hibernate are moving to have as much complexity as the database they map. this seems to be a result of the desire to support the increasingly sophisticated concepts provided by the underlying databases, creating an environment in which the ORM's complexity is a function of the complexity of the databases it supports. i'm not sure this is such a bad thing as long as the additions are thoughtfully made. i do wonder how long it will be until we start seeing the next generation of tools that make hibernate and spring look as crusty as j2ee did when they came out.