4 ms·

That's nothing. Check these comments, anywhere else you would get summarily fired for emails like this. http://www.muktware.com/5276/linus-torvalds-secure-boot

That's nothing. Check these comments, anywhere else you would get summarily fired for emails like this. http://www.muktware.com/5276/linus-torvalds-secure-boot-supporters-not-dick-sucking-contest http://www.muktware.com/5276/linus-torvalds-secure-boot-supp... "Guys, this is not a dick-sucking contest. If you want to parse PE binaries, go right ahead. If Red Hat wants to deep-throat Microsoft, that's your issue..." What if that email was to a female kernel dev? What if a whizkid reads the kernel dev mailing list and goes asks their parents what deepthroating means?

return0 13y ago
You 're implying that women don't swear?
- cglace 13y ago
  I think you missed the point. Go ahead and repeat that quote to the nearest woman and see if they share your view.
  - cobrausn 13y ago
    I think you missed the point. Go ahead and repeat that quote to every male around you and see if they all approve.
  - return0 13y ago
    The particular quote doesn't ring particularly sexist or homophobic. It's NSFW, but the linux kernel is not exactly kindergarten material.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
claudius 13y ago
> What if that email was to a female kernel dev? So it is okay to swear at men but not at women? Why in this context? Really, this is ridiculous. Why would something become acceptable/inacceptable simply because of the gender/religion/haircolour/height/taste in music of the recipient?
- HelloMcFly 13y ago
  It's not OK for anyone (in my opinion). However, because it's a sexualized email sent from a man it would have a not insignificant chance of being interpreted as sexual harassment (i.e., meeting the legal definition for creating a hostile work environment) towards a woman.
  - claudius 13y ago
    So I can send such an email to a woman as I am gay? But if I sent it back to Linus, it’s sexual harassment? As I said, ridiculous.
    - HelloMcFly 13y ago
      > So I can send such an email to a woman as I am gay? No, probably not. I painted in broad strokes, but the situation is more murky. I don't know of any situations where legal action for this kind of behavior has come from men doing it to men. > But if I sent it back to Linus, it’s sexual harassment? Possibly. That may depend on the state? I'm not terribly familiar with same-sex sexual harassment issues, I'm afraid. Need to re-read up on it, I guess.
    - lelandbatey 13y ago
      Sadly, it's not about what you intended. It's about how things are perceived on the receiving end. That's the only thing that matters.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Why would something become acceptable/inacceptable simply because of the gender/religion/haircolour/height/taste in music of the recipient? There are some things that might (for instance, a reference that had a widely accepted meaning in general usage but also a specific use in the context of a particular group might be less appropriate to use to a member of that group where the context might be ambiguous enough to support both the group-specific and the more general use, while being perfectly fine otherwise), but I don't really see that being the case for the particular email in question.
ikt 13y ago
> What if that email was to a female kernel dev? Are you saying men can't suck dick?
mnicole 13y ago
Female here. I'm not going to speak on behalf of everyone, but I use dick-sucking, cirlejerk and all sorts of various illustrative language to get the point across. We had this issue come up with Linus re: a female dev before (re: "circlejerk"). It really doesn't matter to me what terminology people use as long as it is about my intentions and not about me personally. I guess my language caused this comment to be [dead]? Heh.
dinkumthinkum 13y ago
I understand what you're saying but you are making the classic "protect the kiddies" argument and I'm not sure I can accept your position. I'd rather not live in such a world. Linus' mailing list is different from an email at work.
lotsofcows 13y ago
"anywhere else you would get summarily fired" Speak for yourself. I've never worked anywhere where someone got fired for speaking English. "What if that email was to a female kernel dev?" What if it was man? A martian? A lickle putty tat? I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here saying here. "What if a whizkid reads ... deepthroating means?" Whizkid? Doesn't know what deepthroating means? Were you home-schooled?

return0 13y ago

You 're implying that women don't swear?

cglace 13y ago
I think you missed the point. Go ahead and repeat that quote to the nearest woman and see if they share your view.
- cobrausn 13y ago
  I think you missed the point. Go ahead and repeat that quote to every male around you and see if they all approve.
- return0 13y ago
  The particular quote doesn't ring particularly sexist or homophobic. It's NSFW, but the linux kernel is not exactly kindergarten material.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

claudius 13y ago

> What if that email was to a female kernel dev? So it is okay to swear at men but not at women? Why in this context? Really, this is ridiculous. Why would something become acceptable/inacceptable simply because of the gender/religion/haircolour/height/taste in music of the recipient?

HelloMcFly 13y ago
It's not OK for anyone (in my opinion). However, because it's a sexualized email sent from a man it would have a not insignificant chance of being interpreted as sexual harassment (i.e., meeting the legal definition for creating a hostile work environment) towards a woman.
- claudius 13y ago
  So I can send such an email to a woman as I am gay? But if I sent it back to Linus, it’s sexual harassment? As I said, ridiculous.
  - HelloMcFly 13y ago
    > So I can send such an email to a woman as I am gay? No, probably not. I painted in broad strokes, but the situation is more murky. I don't know of any situations where legal action for this kind of behavior has come from men doing it to men. > But if I sent it back to Linus, it’s sexual harassment? Possibly. That may depend on the state? I'm not terribly familiar with same-sex sexual harassment issues, I'm afraid. Need to re-read up on it, I guess.
  - lelandbatey 13y ago
    Sadly, it's not about what you intended. It's about how things are perceived on the receiving end. That's the only thing that matters.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> Why would something become acceptable/inacceptable simply because of the gender/religion/haircolour/height/taste in music of the recipient? There are some things that might (for instance, a reference that had a widely accepted meaning in general usage but also a specific use in the context of a particular group might be less appropriate to use to a member of that group where the context might be ambiguous enough to support both the group-specific and the more general use, while being perfectly fine otherwise), but I don't really see that being the case for the particular email in question.

ikt 13y ago

> What if that email was to a female kernel dev? Are you saying men can't suck dick?

mnicole 13y ago

Female here. I'm not going to speak on behalf of everyone, but I use dick-sucking, cirlejerk and all sorts of various illustrative language to get the point across. We had this issue come up with Linus re: a female dev before (re: "circlejerk"). It really doesn't matter to me what terminology people use as long as it is about my intentions and not about me personally. I guess my language caused this comment to be [dead]? Heh.

dinkumthinkum 13y ago

I understand what you're saying but you are making the classic "protect the kiddies" argument and I'm not sure I can accept your position. I'd rather not live in such a world. Linus' mailing list is different from an email at work.

lotsofcows 13y ago

"anywhere else you would get summarily fired" Speak for yourself. I've never worked anywhere where someone got fired for speaking English. "What if that email was to a female kernel dev?" What if it was man? A martian? A lickle putty tat? I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here saying here. "What if a whizkid reads ... deepthroating means?" Whizkid? Doesn't know what deepthroating means? Were you home-schooled?