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EDIT: In the spirit of being less negative, I'm deleting my original comment. I still contend that Mauro was in the wrong, and refused to acknowledge or fix his

EDIT: In the spirit of being less negative, I'm deleting my original comment. I still contend that Mauro was in the wrong, and refused to acknowledge or fix his mistake, but will agree that Linus probably could have handled it better.

marknutter 13y ago
> At that point what can you do? Verbally abuse him, obviously.
JonnieCache 13y ago
>You can probably stop reading now, because you obviously didn't read the whole Linus/Mauro thread from the beginning, and don't really want to understand. Amazing.
- npsimons 13y ago
  I will confess, that was a bit over the top, and the main reason I deleted the original comment; but much like many people who criticized Linus's comment, it was also out of context. Negativity comes in many forms, selective quoting is just one.
  - gpcz 13y ago
    Are you saying that the "You can probably stop reading" quote was out of context? If I remember correctly, it was the first sentence. What context are you referring to?
  - ianstallings 13y ago
    Don't look now, you're human.
patrickmay 13y ago
How about pointing out the problem calmly and rationally, like you just did? The written equivalent of spittle-flecked screaming is neither professional nor constructive. Unless, of course, the goal is to hound someone out of the community and make others less likely to participate, in which case that was an excellent comment.
gurkendoktor 13y ago
> At that point what can you do? Take action (remove commit rights), message Mauro in private, call him and let him know you are disappointed and why, ... but having an ASCII-based temper just makes Linux and/or programming look silly. Kernel dev is rough but there is plenty of time to let things cool down and let rational criticism sink in.
- yebyen 13y ago
  These are all ridiculous routes to follow. I remember reading once an author who refused to e-mail or respond to e-mails, because he was concerned that every piece of text committed to a private commentary between him and another person would never have been published in a book, and will potentially even become a privileged (private) conversation, that nobody else can benefit from, ever. There is an obvious difference in tone between the 'polite disappointment private note of passive-aggressivity' and the 'verbal ass-chewing' that you issue when someone 'breaks one of the rules'. What happens when this person gets chewed out on a forum on the internet? People talk about it. Word spreads. Now I know that linux kernel devs are not meant to introduce breaking changes into userland, because of the power of his words. Would I have heard if he had chosen other routes? Isn't it possible that he can keep a (potentially) helpful developer on the staff (we try to keep them, especially when they are unpaid, since they are harder to come by) without permanently or temporarily revoking his commit access? I don't know if he still works on kernel, but don't you think he would have been more alienated by forcible removal from the working group, for any period of time? If my boss tells me to take a vacation, I would get worried.
  - MartinCron 13y ago
    Now I know that linux kernel devs are not meant to introduce breaking changes into userland, because of the power of his words And I also know that Linus isn't a person with whom I'll never interact on purpose.
    - yebyen 13y ago
      Sure, if you want, but I can guarantee that without the flame thread, we would not be hearing about this bad patch at all. As a newbie, I'd be seeking out the Rules/FAQ thread, where I'd hopefully have the patience to read all the way down and find that breaking changes are never good. Some things are important enough to flame over. I grew up on IRC, so I have a thick skin to that, and I've been flamed on my fair share of mailing lists too. Know what I learned there? I'm often wrong. To an outsider, a thread where nobody gets flamed is usually pretty inconsequential. Coarse or colorful language makes it stand out more.
jonny_eh 13y ago
Revoke his maintainer status and fix the problem? Then give him a second chance sometime later. I'm sure that verbal abuse, especially in public, isn't the only solution.

marknutter 13y ago

> At that point what can you do? Verbally abuse him, obviously.

JonnieCache 13y ago

>You can probably stop reading now, because you obviously didn't read the whole Linus/Mauro thread from the beginning, and don't really want to understand. Amazing.

npsimons 13y ago
I will confess, that was a bit over the top, and the main reason I deleted the original comment; but much like many people who criticized Linus's comment, it was also out of context. Negativity comes in many forms, selective quoting is just one.
- gpcz 13y ago
  Are you saying that the "You can probably stop reading" quote was out of context? If I remember correctly, it was the first sentence. What context are you referring to?
- ianstallings 13y ago
  Don't look now, you're human.

patrickmay 13y ago

How about pointing out the problem calmly and rationally, like you just did? The written equivalent of spittle-flecked screaming is neither professional nor constructive. Unless, of course, the goal is to hound someone out of the community and make others less likely to participate, in which case that was an excellent comment.

gurkendoktor 13y ago

> At that point what can you do? Take action (remove commit rights), message Mauro in private, call him and let him know you are disappointed and why, ... but having an ASCII-based temper just makes Linux and/or programming look silly. Kernel dev is rough but there is plenty of time to let things cool down and let rational criticism sink in.

yebyen 13y ago
These are all ridiculous routes to follow. I remember reading once an author who refused to e-mail or respond to e-mails, because he was concerned that every piece of text committed to a private commentary between him and another person would never have been published in a book, and will potentially even become a privileged (private) conversation, that nobody else can benefit from, ever. There is an obvious difference in tone between the 'polite disappointment private note of passive-aggressivity' and the 'verbal ass-chewing' that you issue when someone 'breaks one of the rules'. What happens when this person gets chewed out on a forum on the internet? People talk about it. Word spreads. Now I know that linux kernel devs are not meant to introduce breaking changes into userland, because of the power of his words. Would I have heard if he had chosen other routes? Isn't it possible that he can keep a (potentially) helpful developer on the staff (we try to keep them, especially when they are unpaid, since they are harder to come by) without permanently or temporarily revoking his commit access? I don't know if he still works on kernel, but don't you think he would have been more alienated by forcible removal from the working group, for any period of time? If my boss tells me to take a vacation, I would get worried.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Now I know that linux kernel devs are not meant to introduce breaking changes into userland, because of the power of his words And I also know that Linus isn't a person with whom I'll never interact on purpose.
  - yebyen 13y ago
    Sure, if you want, but I can guarantee that without the flame thread, we would not be hearing about this bad patch at all. As a newbie, I'd be seeking out the Rules/FAQ thread, where I'd hopefully have the patience to read all the way down and find that breaking changes are never good. Some things are important enough to flame over. I grew up on IRC, so I have a thick skin to that, and I've been flamed on my fair share of mailing lists too. Know what I learned there? I'm often wrong. To an outsider, a thread where nobody gets flamed is usually pretty inconsequential. Coarse or colorful language makes it stand out more.

jonny_eh 13y ago

Revoke his maintainer status and fix the problem? Then give him a second chance sometime later. I'm sure that verbal abuse, especially in public, isn't the only solution.