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Google Chrome uses separate processes for each tab / window. So I agree that in some ways it is a gift to Google, but it still encourages use of FF and IE over

by jmatt 18y ago

Google Chrome uses separate processes for each tab / window. So I agree that in some ways it is a gift to Google, but it still encourages use of FF and IE over Chrome. Assuming Google is planning on expanded use of Chrome, this could cause problems for their product roadmap.

eli 18y ago
I would assume that multiple instances of the same processname would count only once, but who knows.
- snprbob86 18y ago
  I believe that the limit is on the number of "tasks" being performed. If you open Task Manager, there are two tabs: "Tasks" and "Processes". This basically limits the number of application top-level window, but not the number of processes or task bar entries. I don't know anything about how this works, but I'd assume for any level of backwards compatability at all, it has to be an extremely weak restriction.
Rabidmonkey1 18y ago
Exactly - this screws over Google Chrome, which is a shame because it's a slick browser (though I personally am keeping a closer eye on the Chromium project, especially since I use Linux). I'm not sure this is ultimately to the benefit of Google at all, as the author indicates, and might even be an offensive tactic against them, seeing as Google is really pushing their browser hard.
prospero 18y ago
According to http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=844 http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=844, you "can open as many windows as you want from a single program", which I assume means sub-processes are not counted. Also, IE8 creates separate processes for each tab, just like Chrome. Obviously Microsoft can set whatever double standards they like, but excluding other browsers would pretty much guarantee the Justice Department re-entering the mix.
- snprbob86 18y ago
  IE8 actually creates a pool of subprocesses which may or may not be used on per tab basis. "It turns out that the vast majority of all IE sessions contain three or fewer tabs. Accordingly, in Beta 2 we try to give users three efficient tab processes. This is contingent on the user’s computer capabilities, but the more capable a computer is, the more processes we will use, up to a point. Adding more processes gives users much better isolation in the event of a failure. If each tab is in its own process, websites are completely isolated from each other." Source: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/28/ie8-and-reliability.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/28/ie8-and-reliabil...
  - ewjordan 18y ago
    It turns out that the vast majority of all IE sessions contain three or fewer tabs. That's only because tab management sucks when you put the tabs along the top of the screen, and the lack of organization means people feel obligated to close things out or re-use them rather than popping new tabs. Since I started using Tree Style Tabs in FF, I'm averaging somewhere around 50 tabs up at a time (of course, I don't even notice this until FF tells me the number as I close out, since they're all collapsed and well organized).
    - raquo 18y ago
      Majority of IE users are 'normal people', they just don't need 50 tabs for their tasks, they don't live in the internets
      - graemep 18y ago
        It is not just geeks who need to have a lot of abs open in their browser. There are a lot of jobs that involve gathering lots of information, and a lot of that (intranet as well as internet) is accessed through browsers there days. Add to that personal and work usage, amusement etc.
    - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
      thanks, tree style tabs is clearly the way the internet is supposed to be browsed (non linearity is the original innovation of hypertext)
marcusbooster 18y ago
I was under the impression that FF was also going the way of separate processes for each tab.
- icefox 18y ago
  [citation needed]
  - marcusbooster 18y ago
    My bad. I think I confused the work being done on Prism* with the "Future of Firefox", which of course is a separate product (though it could get integrated). *https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Prism https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Prism
batasrki 18y ago
Not necessarily. As Ed Bott of ZDNet showed, you can have multiple IE windows open with multiple tabs within each. Also, you can have multiple Windows Explorer windows open. Whether this extends to other programs that may spawn multiple processes of the same name or not, that's to be tested. I do think that this "version" of Windows 7 is an extraordinarily bad idea, but then Microsoft wouldn't be Microsoft if it didn't bundle a bad idea with a good one.
jasongullickson 18y ago
The key will be how these "applications" are counted and how the restriction is enforced. If it uses operating system primitives such as processes and threads, it's going to be messy. Imagine if you had IE, Word and Outlook open, tried to copy a file and received a "Sorry, that's too many applications!" message...

by jmatt 18y ago

eli 18y ago

I would assume that multiple instances of the same processname would count only once, but who knows.

snprbob86 18y ago
I believe that the limit is on the number of "tasks" being performed. If you open Task Manager, there are two tabs: "Tasks" and "Processes". This basically limits the number of application top-level window, but not the number of processes or task bar entries. I don't know anything about how this works, but I'd assume for any level of backwards compatability at all, it has to be an extremely weak restriction.

Rabidmonkey1 18y ago

Exactly - this screws over Google Chrome, which is a shame because it's a slick browser (though I personally am keeping a closer eye on the Chromium project, especially since I use Linux). I'm not sure this is ultimately to the benefit of Google at all, as the author indicates, and might even be an offensive tactic against them, seeing as Google is really pushing their browser hard.

prospero 18y ago

According to http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=844 http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=844, you "can open as many windows as you want from a single program", which I assume means sub-processes are not counted. Also, IE8 creates separate processes for each tab, just like Chrome. Obviously Microsoft can set whatever double standards they like, but excluding other browsers would pretty much guarantee the Justice Department re-entering the mix.

snprbob86 18y ago
IE8 actually creates a pool of subprocesses which may or may not be used on per tab basis. "It turns out that the vast majority of all IE sessions contain three or fewer tabs. Accordingly, in Beta 2 we try to give users three efficient tab processes. This is contingent on the user’s computer capabilities, but the more capable a computer is, the more processes we will use, up to a point. Adding more processes gives users much better isolation in the event of a failure. If each tab is in its own process, websites are completely isolated from each other." Source: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/28/ie8-and-reliability.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/07/28/ie8-and-reliabil...
- ewjordan 18y ago
  It turns out that the vast majority of all IE sessions contain three or fewer tabs. That's only because tab management sucks when you put the tabs along the top of the screen, and the lack of organization means people feel obligated to close things out or re-use them rather than popping new tabs. Since I started using Tree Style Tabs in FF, I'm averaging somewhere around 50 tabs up at a time (of course, I don't even notice this until FF tells me the number as I close out, since they're all collapsed and well organized).
  - raquo 18y ago
    Majority of IE users are 'normal people', they just don't need 50 tabs for their tasks, they don't live in the internets
    - graemep 18y ago
      It is not just geeks who need to have a lot of abs open in their browser. There are a lot of jobs that involve gathering lots of information, and a lot of that (intranet as well as internet) is accessed through browsers there days. Add to that personal and work usage, amusement etc.
  - nazgulnarsil 18y ago
    thanks, tree style tabs is clearly the way the internet is supposed to be browsed (non linearity is the original innovation of hypertext)

marcusbooster 18y ago

I was under the impression that FF was also going the way of separate processes for each tab.

icefox 18y ago
[citation needed]
- marcusbooster 18y ago
  My bad. I think I confused the work being done on Prism* with the "Future of Firefox", which of course is a separate product (though it could get integrated). *https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Prism https://developer.mozilla.org/en/Prism

batasrki 18y ago

Not necessarily. As Ed Bott of ZDNet showed, you can have multiple IE windows open with multiple tabs within each. Also, you can have multiple Windows Explorer windows open. Whether this extends to other programs that may spawn multiple processes of the same name or not, that's to be tested. I do think that this "version" of Windows 7 is an extraordinarily bad idea, but then Microsoft wouldn't be Microsoft if it didn't bundle a bad idea with a good one.

jasongullickson 18y ago

The key will be how these "applications" are counted and how the restriction is enforced. If it uses operating system primitives such as processes and threads, it's going to be messy. Imagine if you had IE, Word and Outlook open, tried to copy a file and received a "Sorry, that's too many applications!" message...