5 ms·

He just got done explaining that there are, in fact, victims. There are negative externalities that are getting pushed onto neighbors.

mikeash 13y ago
The only negative externality he mentions is some vague handwaving about "neighborly behavior". With no evidence to back it up, for all we know, the transients make better neighbors than long-term residents.
- benblodgett 13y ago
  Spoken like someone who has never lived in NYC. We live in such proximity to our neighbors that their behavior has a larger impact than in most places. I had problems with an airbnber just two weeks ago when they had 50+ people partying in the loft above mine. Friends have reported similar experiences.
- jgalt212 13y ago
  It was purposely vague to avoid an example/counter-example flame war. It's better to think of this in the aggregate. As a full time resident would you rather live in a building of full time residents who keep similar schedules and are invested in keeping the building nice, or would you rather live in a building of transients who have no vested interest in the long-term upkeep of your building. Another way to look at it: Do you take better care of the car that you own, or the car that you rent?
  - leviathant 13y ago
    Well... if I rent a really nice car, I take care of it better than my own ;) Having said that, I live in a Philadelphia neighborhood where it's in the deed to the house that you're not allowed to rent your property out, and it's absolutely helped keep things really nice. There was one house that rented out to college students up until this past year - the grass was always overgrown, and the new owner of the house ended up having to replace doors, walls, you name it. Got a good deal on an otherwise great house though. I think the nature of housing in NYC makes it difficult for AirBnB places to function the same as they do in, say, Asheville NC. Renting a house is one thing, renting an apartment with a shared entrance and more permanent tenants attached to nearly every other wall is different in so many ways.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      People who rent nice cars generally do not take better care of them than their own.
      - jacques_chester 13y ago
        I worked for a car rental company and I know all the ways they can claw money out of you (read the fine print sometime). I am pretty careful.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Shall we ban renting too? Sounds like the best situation is where everyone is an owner, after all.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Sorry for the ad hominem, but this attitude screams "I've never really used AirBnB seriously, so I don't know what I'm talking about" I'd say the overwhelming majority of AirBnB hosts don't rent out their rooms to just anybody. They vet candidates to make sure they are respectful people with whom they themselves would get along and whom they think are going to be as respectful if not more respectful of their own property. At the end of the day, your long-term neighbors, people you apparently are fond of and trust have chosen to hand over the keys to their apartment to people they have decided to trust based on some criteria of their own choosing. It's perfectly natural to extend my trust with person A to person B, if I know person A trusts person B. One of my friends is the number one AirBnB/Couchsurfing host AFAIK. Something like 700+ people have stayed with him between both sites over the past few years and I think he has had maybe 1-2 bad experiences, and those experiences did not involve the person being disrespectful of the building, property or neighbors, but just being people of a generally unpleasant attitude. People treat hotel rooms shitty, but they generally treat an AirBnB rental with respect because they know that that is somebody's home and that someone trusted them with their home. The actual, implied or imagined presence of others does have a positive impact on behavior. Social influence, specifically compliance, most definitely is a factor at play, both in terms of the hosts expectations of the guest and the fact that each and every AirBnB guest has a reputation to upkeep in order to maintain good standing on the site.
- rayiner 13y ago
  God everyone knows transients are awful. Hell, renters are awful (have you ever run a rental property?) People just give less of a shit about where they live when they don't have a long term investment in the place. Go live in a rental building versus a co-op and tell me you don't notice a difference. Well those people in the co-op pay a premium not to live in a rental building and Airbnb profits by destroying the quality that results in that premium.
  - ctolsen 13y ago
    Then the co-op should have no problem regulating this internally. There's no reason to get full protection of the law, with all the unintended consequences it brings with it.
    - rayiner 13y ago
      It depends entirely on the scale of the problem. One or two rental units in a co-op? Can be handled internally. Someone on a quiet residential block opening up a full-fledged AirBnB hotel? That's a problem that cannot be solved internally.
deleted 13y ago
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mikeash 13y ago

The only negative externality he mentions is some vague handwaving about "neighborly behavior". With no evidence to back it up, for all we know, the transients make better neighbors than long-term residents.

benblodgett 13y ago
Spoken like someone who has never lived in NYC. We live in such proximity to our neighbors that their behavior has a larger impact than in most places. I had problems with an airbnber just two weeks ago when they had 50+ people partying in the loft above mine. Friends have reported similar experiences.
jgalt212 13y ago
It was purposely vague to avoid an example/counter-example flame war. It's better to think of this in the aggregate. As a full time resident would you rather live in a building of full time residents who keep similar schedules and are invested in keeping the building nice, or would you rather live in a building of transients who have no vested interest in the long-term upkeep of your building. Another way to look at it: Do you take better care of the car that you own, or the car that you rent?
- leviathant 13y ago
  Well... if I rent a really nice car, I take care of it better than my own ;) Having said that, I live in a Philadelphia neighborhood where it's in the deed to the house that you're not allowed to rent your property out, and it's absolutely helped keep things really nice. There was one house that rented out to college students up until this past year - the grass was always overgrown, and the new owner of the house ended up having to replace doors, walls, you name it. Got a good deal on an otherwise great house though. I think the nature of housing in NYC makes it difficult for AirBnB places to function the same as they do in, say, Asheville NC. Renting a house is one thing, renting an apartment with a shared entrance and more permanent tenants attached to nearly every other wall is different in so many ways.
  - tptacek 13y ago
    People who rent nice cars generally do not take better care of them than their own.
    - jacques_chester 13y ago
      I worked for a car rental company and I know all the ways they can claw money out of you (read the fine print sometime). I am pretty careful.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Shall we ban renting too? Sounds like the best situation is where everyone is an owner, after all.
- malandrew 13y ago
  Sorry for the ad hominem, but this attitude screams "I've never really used AirBnB seriously, so I don't know what I'm talking about" I'd say the overwhelming majority of AirBnB hosts don't rent out their rooms to just anybody. They vet candidates to make sure they are respectful people with whom they themselves would get along and whom they think are going to be as respectful if not more respectful of their own property. At the end of the day, your long-term neighbors, people you apparently are fond of and trust have chosen to hand over the keys to their apartment to people they have decided to trust based on some criteria of their own choosing. It's perfectly natural to extend my trust with person A to person B, if I know person A trusts person B. One of my friends is the number one AirBnB/Couchsurfing host AFAIK. Something like 700+ people have stayed with him between both sites over the past few years and I think he has had maybe 1-2 bad experiences, and those experiences did not involve the person being disrespectful of the building, property or neighbors, but just being people of a generally unpleasant attitude. People treat hotel rooms shitty, but they generally treat an AirBnB rental with respect because they know that that is somebody's home and that someone trusted them with their home. The actual, implied or imagined presence of others does have a positive impact on behavior. Social influence, specifically compliance, most definitely is a factor at play, both in terms of the hosts expectations of the guest and the fact that each and every AirBnB guest has a reputation to upkeep in order to maintain good standing on the site.
rayiner 13y ago
God everyone knows transients are awful. Hell, renters are awful (have you ever run a rental property?) People just give less of a shit about where they live when they don't have a long term investment in the place. Go live in a rental building versus a co-op and tell me you don't notice a difference. Well those people in the co-op pay a premium not to live in a rental building and Airbnb profits by destroying the quality that results in that premium.
- ctolsen 13y ago
  Then the co-op should have no problem regulating this internally. There's no reason to get full protection of the law, with all the unintended consequences it brings with it.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    It depends entirely on the scale of the problem. One or two rental units in a co-op? Can be handled internally. Someone on a quiet residential block opening up a full-fledged AirBnB hotel? That's a problem that cannot be solved internally.

deleted 13y ago

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