6 ms·

My roommate and I ruled out moving to NYC about a month ago when we started reading about NY and NYC government. I was going to visit for a few months at my ro

by nsmartt 13y ago

My roommate and I ruled out moving to NYC about a month ago when we started reading about NY and NYC government. I was going to visit for a few months at my roommate's insistence. According to this, it's legal as long as I rent for at least a month, but I'm becoming less and less inclined to visit at all.

jawngee 13y ago
Because AirBnB is illegal? I get AirBnB as a service, I really do, but it isn't win-win all around for everyone involved, specifically in big cities where real estate is a precious commodity. Neighbors lose by having strangers in their buildings, renters lose out on available space, airbnb customers lose out on protection of the law (though they have the protection of the company, but the two are not equivalent). Not only have I seen it in my building, but I've seen it in other friend's buildings, in condos that they've bought (I rent). It's a shitty situation for them having strangers consistently churning through the property. Nothing bad has happened yet, but would you want that whole awkward scenario happening on your front step?
- nsmartt 13y ago
  >Because AirBnB is illegal? No, but the fact that it's illegal to rent out a building I own for a few weeks while I'm on vacation is another paper cut among the many I have already received when researching NY and NYC government. This wouldn't affect me directly (as I've said, living there was ruled out), but I don't approve. It does, therefore, influence my inclination to visit. If this were the only issue, it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I'd just declare it as unfortunate and visit for longer than 29 days to avoid legal issues. >Neighbors lose by having strangers in their buildings I agree with this, but this sounds like a problem to be handled by the owner of the establishment, not a problem to be handled by government. >renters lose out on available space Only if those renters are offering places for short term visits anyway. I have no idea whether that's a common scenario, but leasers are hardly missing out because I'm renting out an extra room. >would you want that whole awkward scenario happening on your front step? I probably wouldn't, but I still don't consider it to be the government's job to ensure that it isn't happening.
  - jcampbell1 13y ago
    > I agree with this, but this sounds like a problem to be handled by the owner of the establishment, not a problem to be handled by government. Even hard core libertarian recognize one function of government it to enforce contracts. Without the government stepping in, what do you suggest? Have Boris from Brighton Beach enforce the contract?
    - nsmartt 13y ago
      Isn't eviction the answer to a violation of my lease? I haven't suggested that the government shouldn't enforce contracts. Only that I don't see the need for there to be a law governing what I can do with my own property. I'm not even sure this is a very libertarian stance.
      - jawngee 13y ago
        You can't evict someone that owns the apartment they are air'ing out. (What is the correct verb for this? Anyone know? Airbnb'ing? Air'ing?) Even in a coop it is incredibly difficult to make that move, if not impossible.
        nsmartt 13y ago
        If they own it, I assert that they have the right to "air it out", as you put it, regardless of my own objections. This is the same issue I have with regulated lawn maintenance.
    - willurd 13y ago
      That's why we have courts. You take a problem to court when it becomes a problem. You don't punish an entire city for something some people might or even will do.
      - Nursie 13y ago
        Is there not a point where we can say "this is so often and so prevalently a problem, let's disallow it".
- Kurtz79 13y ago
  How is this different from people subletting rooms through craiglist or any other announcement board ?
- xentronium 13y ago
  > airbnb customers lose out on protection of the law But they win on price and search time (which is equivalent to money)?
  - potatolicious 13y ago
    Price yes, search time unlikely. I use AirBnb, and the system is that you contact (usually a few) properties to check their availability (not all properties have up-to-date availabilities on the website). They reply confirming availability, and you reply confirming your booking. In my experience this usually takes a day or two. I can find and book a reasonably priced (i.e., none too luxurious) hotel room in NYC in about 15 minutes, in comparison. AirBnb's system is relatively hassle-free, but time savings against Kayak/Expedia/Hipmunk? Not a chance.
mattzito 13y ago
Eh, if you're the sort of person who's not going to even visit because of the oh-so-oppressive Bloomberg regime, we'd rather not have you. Believe me, I have objections to some of the government policies here, and I'm looking forward to getting some new blood in the mayor's office, but refusing to visit a city because of unstated political objections (though AirBnB bans are somehow part of it) strikes me as capricious at best.
- JackFr 13y ago
  I'm not sure capricious is the right word ...
  - mattzito 13y ago
    Yep, it's not, there was another word I was thinking of. Thanks!
- nsmartt 13y ago
  When I say "visit", I actually mean "stay for a few months". Otherwise, why visit at all? I mean spending a week would be fine, but I don't think I'd get the experience I'd want, and staying for a month or more doesn't have the appeal it would have if I didn't have such objections.
  - mattzito 13y ago
    But what are those objections? It's one of the largest cities in the world, it has very low crime, a great arts scene, one of the best mass transit systems in the country, etc. etc. etc.
    - nsmartt 13y ago
      http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/26/4270876/privacy-off-the-table-nyc-police-commissioner-ray-kelly-argues-for-more-cameras http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/26/4270876/privacy-off-the-ta... http://www.nydailynews.com/privacy-overrated-article-1.1328656 http://www.nydailynews.com/privacy-overrated-article-1.13286... http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/coder-charged-for-gambling-software/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/coder-charged-for-g... Mostly these sorts of things. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of even temporary residence in NY or NYC. It's a shame too, because I really liked the idea of a few places in NY state.
joonix 13y ago
From the sound of it, it seems your ideal tourist destination is Somalia. Perhaps better to route your travels that way.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

by nsmartt 13y ago

jawngee 13y ago

Because AirBnB is illegal? I get AirBnB as a service, I really do, but it isn't win-win all around for everyone involved, specifically in big cities where real estate is a precious commodity. Neighbors lose by having strangers in their buildings, renters lose out on available space, airbnb customers lose out on protection of the law (though they have the protection of the company, but the two are not equivalent). Not only have I seen it in my building, but I've seen it in other friend's buildings, in condos that they've bought (I rent). It's a shitty situation for them having strangers consistently churning through the property. Nothing bad has happened yet, but would you want that whole awkward scenario happening on your front step?

nsmartt 13y ago
>Because AirBnB is illegal? No, but the fact that it's illegal to rent out a building I own for a few weeks while I'm on vacation is another paper cut among the many I have already received when researching NY and NYC government. This wouldn't affect me directly (as I've said, living there was ruled out), but I don't approve. It does, therefore, influence my inclination to visit. If this were the only issue, it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I'd just declare it as unfortunate and visit for longer than 29 days to avoid legal issues. >Neighbors lose by having strangers in their buildings I agree with this, but this sounds like a problem to be handled by the owner of the establishment, not a problem to be handled by government. >renters lose out on available space Only if those renters are offering places for short term visits anyway. I have no idea whether that's a common scenario, but leasers are hardly missing out because I'm renting out an extra room. >would you want that whole awkward scenario happening on your front step? I probably wouldn't, but I still don't consider it to be the government's job to ensure that it isn't happening.
- jcampbell1 13y ago
  > I agree with this, but this sounds like a problem to be handled by the owner of the establishment, not a problem to be handled by government. Even hard core libertarian recognize one function of government it to enforce contracts. Without the government stepping in, what do you suggest? Have Boris from Brighton Beach enforce the contract?
  - nsmartt 13y ago
    Isn't eviction the answer to a violation of my lease? I haven't suggested that the government shouldn't enforce contracts. Only that I don't see the need for there to be a law governing what I can do with my own property. I'm not even sure this is a very libertarian stance.
    - jawngee 13y ago
      You can't evict someone that owns the apartment they are air'ing out. (What is the correct verb for this? Anyone know? Airbnb'ing? Air'ing?) Even in a coop it is incredibly difficult to make that move, if not impossible.
      - nsmartt 13y ago
        If they own it, I assert that they have the right to "air it out", as you put it, regardless of my own objections. This is the same issue I have with regulated lawn maintenance.
  - willurd 13y ago
    That's why we have courts. You take a problem to court when it becomes a problem. You don't punish an entire city for something some people might or even will do.
    - Nursie 13y ago
      Is there not a point where we can say "this is so often and so prevalently a problem, let's disallow it".
Kurtz79 13y ago
How is this different from people subletting rooms through craiglist or any other announcement board ?
xentronium 13y ago
> airbnb customers lose out on protection of the law But they win on price and search time (which is equivalent to money)?
- potatolicious 13y ago
  Price yes, search time unlikely. I use AirBnb, and the system is that you contact (usually a few) properties to check their availability (not all properties have up-to-date availabilities on the website). They reply confirming availability, and you reply confirming your booking. In my experience this usually takes a day or two. I can find and book a reasonably priced (i.e., none too luxurious) hotel room in NYC in about 15 minutes, in comparison. AirBnb's system is relatively hassle-free, but time savings against Kayak/Expedia/Hipmunk? Not a chance.

mattzito 13y ago

Eh, if you're the sort of person who's not going to even visit because of the oh-so-oppressive Bloomberg regime, we'd rather not have you. Believe me, I have objections to some of the government policies here, and I'm looking forward to getting some new blood in the mayor's office, but refusing to visit a city because of unstated political objections (though AirBnB bans are somehow part of it) strikes me as capricious at best.

JackFr 13y ago
I'm not sure capricious is the right word ...
- mattzito 13y ago
  Yep, it's not, there was another word I was thinking of. Thanks!
nsmartt 13y ago
When I say "visit", I actually mean "stay for a few months". Otherwise, why visit at all? I mean spending a week would be fine, but I don't think I'd get the experience I'd want, and staying for a month or more doesn't have the appeal it would have if I didn't have such objections.
- mattzito 13y ago
  But what are those objections? It's one of the largest cities in the world, it has very low crime, a great arts scene, one of the best mass transit systems in the country, etc. etc. etc.
  - nsmartt 13y ago
    http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/26/4270876/privacy-off-the-table-nyc-police-commissioner-ray-kelly-argues-for-more-cameras http://www.theverge.com/2013/4/26/4270876/privacy-off-the-ta... http://www.nydailynews.com/privacy-overrated-article-1.1328656 http://www.nydailynews.com/privacy-overrated-article-1.13286... http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/coder-charged-for-gambling-software/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/01/coder-charged-for-g... Mostly these sorts of things. I'm uncomfortable with the idea of even temporary residence in NY or NYC. It's a shame too, because I really liked the idea of a few places in NY state.

joonix 13y ago

From the sound of it, it seems your ideal tourist destination is Somalia. Perhaps better to route your travels that way.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]